fine! you have to be so good at everything O.o
maybe mobile grids or create a flying like kakaru and once it goes over enemy it spawns the thing O.o

TZ, you completely ignored more than 50% of my last two posts. T.T

As for the stuff you currently have added...

I still hate the tome of Firestorm. Hold off on it. Someone is going to post a new SIMPLE TO TRIGGER directional casting system on new years that will help you a lot, but I can't release any details on it right now. Seriously, dropping a unit to shoot in 4 directions is bad. Just...don't do the Overlord firestorm thingy. Wait till new years. Please. For goodness sake please wait.

Ultralisk...is confusing the crap out of me.
Basically I get the choice of a Zealot side for my Ultralisk, or the main Archon course. If zealots are constantly moved to my Ultralisk, my Ultra can't move right as it'll get blocked off. Keeping the Zealot close to the Ultra does crap if enemy ranged units are nearby. Archon form is a lot simpler to use with less gimmicks. It nullifies the other two abilities because the abilities cannot be used TOGETHER. It's one OR the other, which is TERRIBLE. Then there's the spawn mass DTs. WTF. It looks funny, takes up a lot of room, does inconsistent damage as dts will block each other, causes potential problems when switching tomes as the dts again block...the list goes on. Even if you stack the dts via disabled sprites, you'll run into problems where an enemy unit walks on top of the stacked group and causes the dts to run outta room.

You're mean. But good points nonetheless. I'll take out Firestorm and Bladewind. I'm trying to think of better ones.

EDIT: Random thought: Whatif I gave the Firestorm a spell to summon a Scarab instead of Magic Missile? (Launched from a hero Reaver so I can give it more damage than the Scarabs used by the Tome of Conjuration's Reavers.)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 3:58 am by TassadarZeratul. Reason: Good idea, or fail idea?

TZ:

Read my other posts that you missed. The following are my recommended changes.

Probe
- Allow only one Shield Battery
- When Probe is out, constantly set Battery Energy to 100%

Dark Archon
- Remove the Hydralisk summon, think of a replacement. Perhaps the low hp low shield high damage Def Matrixed Zealot concept, which combos well with Vessel? Or Hallucinations? Or a low damage high hp summon?

Medic
? Are you SURE that Restore is useful? What will enemies cast?

Queen
- Remove Zerglings
- Add a spell that costs gas and gives Queen 100% energy (more broodlings). Or require that you sacrifice other summons to use this ability (IE sacrifice a number of Scourges/Infes Terran/Broodlings as the spell cost).

Goliath
- Make the Vulture the primary form as it's the weakest. Siege for anti ground. Goliath for anti air. Wraith for stealth and escape. Vulture...only has movement going for him.

Firestorm
- kill it with fire

Ultralisk
- kill it with fire

You should have 7 somewhat workable tomes at the moment then.

Will do.

I still don't think people changing to DA, using Reanimate, and changing back will be problem. For one thing, Mind Control is not a spell people would want to give up.

Parasite (breaks cloaking), Lockdown, and Mealstrom are the big ones. There will probably be some enemies that can use Irradiate as well.

Once again, I don't see this as a problem.

Will do.

Hey, that's my line! *kills with fire anyway*

Yes. I'll see if tomorrow brings any new ideas.

I don't have enough skillz yet. I'll do Breach after this. Consider this "practice" for my future maps (including Breach). Not that this will be a stupid little map, mind you.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 5:40 am by TassadarZeratul.

---

Existing Tomes:

Replace the Queen entirely by a Carrier. Allow it to summon Infes Terran, Scourge, Broodlings that will die, and Interceptors (default). Interceptors are swarmy-ish after all.

For the DA, beware how some players will MC other player's units. I'd suggest just detecting MC of important units like Tomes and Bosses; let the MC summons slide. I'd also suggest making non boss enemy units much weaker than your typical summons, that or make MC cost a lot of energy with no easy means to spam MC, or make MCable units unupgradable (+0 per upgrade). I'm also still against reanimate if it allows you to summon a large number of Hydras that are easily upgradable (+0 per up isn't too bad though).

The thing you want to avoid is being able to litter the map with large numbers of upgradable summons that control every freaking spawn point for farming purposes. Zerglings do this. Hydralisks do this. MC does this. It breaks RPGs like Quests Open RPG, where I ended up taking over any decent farming spot so no other player could achieve my level of income (I could afk, eat dinner, come back, and upgrade to 255 in everything). Note that as long as Goons and Reavs require Shield Batteries to be useful and Terran Infantry the Bunker to be useful, those particular summons won't have this problem.

---

More Tome Ideas:

This one is iffy. Ghost hero with cloak/lockdown/nuke and one other ability. If you dislike the nuke itself, you can time when it hits the ground (it's been done before) and give it another effect just before it blows. Lockdown synergizes well with the Dark Archon as they disable a good portion of possible enemy units. Cloak and nuke are self explanatory together.

Thinking on units with multiple upgrades, there's Marine and Zergling. I'd personally go with the Zergling as the range upgrade on the Marine won't help that much unless there's a lot of Marines. Zergling can then have 3 upgrades. Movement speed up. Attack speed up. Burrow up (will affect infested terrans too); you can use burrow detection to give him a bonus like 1 second invul when he does it. He then needs 1 more spell. Ensure that the Zergling hp is low enough that he's a hit and run unit.

---

General Ideas, not full tomes:

Give me more info on the Lurker usage you planned on.

Dweb is a great spell, though I'm not sure how you'd apply it. Perhaps allow the Dark Archon to summon a Corsair with Dweb?

I know you dislike Arbiters, but consider lowering its hp and making it completely stationary, where you can only move the Arbiter itself by swapping tomes.

Perhaps a Hydralisk hero that makes use of its Egg form (make Lurk take over 65000 to build) or a Muta that makes use of its Cocoon form. I'm not sure how you would want to use them though. A more complex idea would be to move enabled Larva (so they don't die off creep) and use a morph to do something. This might conflict with your tome swap system though.

Also consider using Infes Kerrigan for Ensnare and Consume purposes. Unfortunately, you can't disable psi storm on her as that makes high templars redundant...

Good one! *changes*

MCing Tomes, bosses, and players doesn't work. Also, MC doesn't always work on higher-level monsters. You can't upgrade monsters, and spamming MC is impossible.

I'm going to set it up so that summons/MCs that get to far away come under attack by invulnerable monsters just to stop that.

Sorry, but two of the characters are already Ghosts.

Probably not.

One of the characters can turn into a burrowed Lurker temporarily. (Unburrowing turns him back.)

Dweb is used by some monsters and most bosses. I'm not sure if I want to use it as a player-usable spell as well.

That might be a good start for a tome. Recall would probably be either useless or overpowered, but Stasis Field would make a good spell. The Arbiter still needs two more spells.

For what purpose?

Ikerr is a monster.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 6:52 am by TassadarZeratul. Reason: [/quotes] != [/quote]

I think that a game that focuses entirely on tomes and spells casting should have spells that are a lot more interesting than the ones you currently have. (No offense) I have a question or two: Are u using Virtual HP? How serious are you taking this map? 9 tomes is a pretty intense idea and I think the current ones need major revising. How many human players are in this game? In my opinion, you should develop 9X4= 36 unique, original spell. I'm sorry, but for a game that claims to focus heavily on spells; 'lockdown' and 'irradicate' aren't cutting it for me. I can have those spells in a normal SC game.

I don't really agree with that. I like them the way they are now. Also: *points at Conjuration, Guardian Elemental, and Golem Creation* Not exactly what you'd have in normal SC.

Also, keep in mind that I'm trying to keep the spells simple to avoid confusion. The Hive switching your tomes could easily confuse noobs who don't read the instructions, and I don't want to make it worse.

I'm not using vHP. There are three humans currently, but I might add a fourth player.

Over 9000 percent serious.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 4:55 pm by TassadarZeratul.

What about making it so it summons a carrier, and every time a interceptor comes into contact with a basic enemy unit it removes the unit and creates one for the player, "Infesting" them or something, I like the idea of something happening when an interceptor hits something.

Tome of Bombardier (dropship)

It's a quasi-replacement for the Tome of Firestorm!

Spells:

Bomb- unloads a unit, the unit is replaced with a scarab.
Artillery Strike- summons invincible siege tanks, which can't be unsieged. Use the spell again to move to move them to your current location. They disappear after 30 seconds.
Mine- spider mines. (max of three)
Nuke- nuke.

If you don't like the nuke spell, replace it with Cluster Bomb.

Cluster Bomb- drops several weaker bombs.

Regular bomb should be renamed Heavy Bomb, and it will instead drop a scarab with extra damage upgrades. The Cluster Bomb spell will drop a few weaker scarabs (unupgraded).


@SP- summons can't farm for more than 30 seconds.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 5:46 pm by ForTheSwarm. Reason: more details

Uhm... No thanks.

@pigy: Good idea, but to much like mind control.

Added, but I changed it so that unsieging triggers the Cluster Bomb spell (and destroys the tank).

Tome of Death: (Defiler)

Plague: Plague
Death Shroud: Dark Swarm
Assassinate: Kills 1 enemy unit- on bosses just does extra damage. (or maybe create a strong dt for 1 attack)
Wave of Death: Moves enabled larvae to the field. If an enemy unit touches one they die. The larvae disappear after some time. (10 seconds?)


Not my best idea ever but I ran out of good ones after my other 3.

Just so you know, I am a publicity whore.

Overpowered, but otherwise good. I'd make Assassinate summon a DT.

Maybe make DS last shorter? You could sort of kind of detect player this way.

Brings Dark Swarm
Center Location
Wait 5000
Remove Dark Swarm

If not, then maybe an energy regen spell? Let it summon eggs or something weak for it to consume.

I has idea! (Based on ForTheFail's idea.) Here it is:

Tome of Death: (Queen)
Stygian Shock: Any enemy units standing under the Tome unit are forced to JYD for a few seconds.
Stygian Disruption: Ensnare
Stygian Assassin: Creates a Dark Templar under the Tome unit. It only lasts for a few seconds.
Stygian Wave: Creates burrowed Zerg units near the Tome unit. Anything that touches one is damaged quite a bit.

Wait on the Firestorm thing. It's just one more day.
- Hero and nonhero Reavers shoot the same damage Scarabs.
- Timed Hero Siege can make the normal Siege redundant. Range, damage type, etc. too similar
- Summoning Scarabs...as long as they're Random Suicided ones given to the player it shouldn't be too bad (the player can even upgrade Scarab damage then). Junkyard dog scarabs are terrible and should never ever be used as a RPG spell. They offer a ridiculous amount of range with 0 control.

You may also want to detail what heroes you have, what units they use, what spells they have, and what spellcasting system they use. IE transforming into a Lurker.

Hero reavers get the +25 damage upgrade, so they do more damage.

I was told they do. I tried it myself and found that they don't. Unless there's a special trick involved that I am not aware of, they don't.