K let's not go off topic and talk about TS .. that's what the TS thread's for...

maybe the difference is in the difference in "tactics" between Korean and Non-korean ( i won't say USA, cause I live in canada, and i'm azn ). In Korean, the important tactic for us is knowing the map well enough, knowing what each skill does and what types of explosion/attack it does... And that's hard enough since it is all in korean. I don't like it, because i feel it is a very shallow kind of tactic, since it is all based on the trigger spells. It's kind of like, making all my TS heroes about the same HP with no apparent attack difference, and then make up for Zling's speed n attack by making its spell worse.
I understand the stargate system, and I love the combo system too, but it is definately unrequired for me. With so many different skills for each hero, it kinda makes the AoS more like a Fighting game, where every character has a set of normal moves, and have special moves that is unique for each character. I don't like fighting games either, and I only like SSBros because the characters are VERY different from each other, with each move, jump, grab, smash and special moves very unique. (e.g. yoshi can jump like crazy and will not be stunned when 2nd jumping... Kirby n dedede n jigglypuff can bounce around, etc.) This allows the players who don't want to do mainstream stuff (damn falco) and go for the "low tiers" (ugh, hurts when i say that). Even in SSBB, i was dissapointed in how much the attacks have gotten similar now, and special moves has been toned down a lot for a lot of the characters (special moves as in B-button moves).
Yeah, brawl is still fun =o.
but Fighting games on SC is not.

What TS can provide is ALL of the non-mainstream you can imagine. Slow ass HT with Low Hp, but high high spell dmg for example. Yea, some faults and imbalances are made, but that is because I put my ideas before balancing. There is a lot more "counters" in this type of AoS, and only specific heroes have that type of counters, whereas korean AoS, almost every hero has a counter to everything.

As for the skills looking good for the korean maps... yeah, i have a life... i'm not going to spend half an hour triggering one spell XD. I would take half an hour to THINK UP a spell, and finding ways to make counters for it, or balance it if it is too overpwoered.. but half n hour triggering it? NEVER! Each spell has had a lot of thought put behind it, and each is unique to each hero. I'd rather do that then give each hero a slew of normal spells, where some can counter special spells and such. EDIT: Thinking tactic rather than comboing is further stressed in TS by the Upgrading system. You get to CHOOSE what you want to upgrade. Why is that bad? You get to level up your chosen hero anyway you want, and you can change ur style every game to see which fits you best. Not to mention how you can build assimilators, spawns, and upgrade spawns, and capture outposts. Those all play into different tactics, and you can still win even if your combo or spells aren't as good as other heros. It is more thinking than fighting.

I also REALLLY REALLY hate how everyone has a spell that can heal themselves to full HP. that's BS <.< .. what's the point then? As I've said, it's a fighting game, really . Not true to the AoS style.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 11 2008, 2:54 am by UnholyUrine.

Temple Siege takes just as much reaction + strategy as your korean maps. I'll just take your word that if I actually sat down and had someone teach me those games for a few hours I would have fun eventually, because after playing them just a few times it feels more about combo knowledge than anything else. The difference between us is that I don't pretend to be able to judge your game as inferior because I lack experience. Just reading your 1 post on your game of temple siege I can say without a doubt that you know nothing of its mechanics and you've rushed to judgment. Though I will say that it is easier for someone to pick temple siege than its Korean equivalent.

Usually people don't have a skill that heals them to max, that's more likely in korean fighting games instead. In the AoSes you can buy potions which heal you to max, but that's that.

Also, don't you have unlimited lives in the korean versions?

Yeah, you do. However, I prefer that over the 3-death limit, especially when characters are so imba.

I prefer unlimited lives. It lets you take risks and make attacks without having to worry about being eliminated if it doesn't pay off well, you'll just come out with a disadvantage. I think the system that DotA has is best; a respawn delay and monetary loss. That one hero being out of the battle for 30 seconds or so makes a difference.

I second this.

I don't. Limited lives give another victory condition.

Limit lives can make the game unfair really really easily. Someone dies, poof 2v3. Great. There are a few korean maps (kssh kssh type-moon arena kssh kssh) that gives you a victory if there are 20 deaths for the other team, and at least when someone dies a lot it doesn't make the match-up unfair. But whatever is your cup of tea, mine is exactly how the koreans do it. It definitely has a different feel, though. But Storm the Fort has this limited bullshit and if I'm not wrong, that map is rigged to ass.

Lol, I admit that Korean maps are by far way way way complicated and spectacular than American maps, but they never hit the sweet spot where innovation + gameplay > graphics and special effects (with the exception of those micro defenses (so old now, sie_sayoka, so old) and blood pressure marathon (the first ver was still lame cause of the crystal + sunken + devourer).
Storm the Fort is a good example of how we can make use of the triggering in stareditor to make smth simple but still very fun =O. Yeh, building spawns are rigged to the ass. Custom hero wars is another example that koreans won't do. Customizable spells (americans = , koreans = ) Altho, some spell + heroes are still rigged to the ass LOL.

Lol

SSB FTW!
BTW i cant find any blood pressure maps anywhere

Epic Necro made me think this was a new topic ><. I too am making an AoS map. They are cool.

Also, you guys argue too much.

Because i feel like it, im gonna post somethiing big and important looking even though its a huge necro.

The way i see it, and to quote T.I.:

ey man real talk in order to understand my train of thoughts
you'll have to put yo self in my position
you can't expect me to think like you cuz my life ain't like yours
you know what I'm sayin?

you guys have to understand the average korean is nothing like the average pubby here, and so this probably isnt that hard for them to learn.

Korean ones have unlim lives because the game can support it.

The game TS WONT support unlim lives where a DT can be always pressured by a rine and have two options. 1. Get away with l1, or 2. Die.

Lm can be even worse. Any hero this works for, those two are just examples.

In TS if someone gets too far ahead of you, you cant catch up.

In DotA you dont actually need kills to get exp, you need to be near the death of the unit to get exp. You need last hits for denial, money, denail exp.
And such opens up a big deep pool of a game if such a complex (its hard to learn it and how to time it) aspect is almost required to be mastered for basic ability to be able to win games.

Also, DotA is by far the BEST english AoS style map due to its
1. Having a fully and completly balanced version, which is used for Gamebattles.
&
2. Acting completly like a perfect AoS would, a PVP rpg. No silly systems to upg your guy, you hit the button on your character and choose which spell to upg. But of course you get much more choice then TS in t hat you need certain combos of items to get others, some items give you spells...All that stuff.

Its just, better.

Well, since it's been revived...

The problem with Temple Siege is not the small amount of spells, although admittedly, the ones you DO have are not very creative, it is the ridiculously slow gameplay, the map is too large, mana recovers too slow, you have too much health, and there is not enough spawn(to cover the ridiculous map size). TS is for a slower crowd, if you know what I mean

Damn guys, I thought this was a thread about general AoS maps, not "Let's bash TS because it's spells are lacking."

Slow gameplay is an opinion.

We should talk about balancing, as its more fact.

EDIT: Norm, spells arent lacking, theyre just one concept. Things like dota had many concepts. A full actually working disable, but you fall asleep and cant do anything. A disable where your just cant do anything but run, and your slowed (and such a spell can be bought, too)

The Warcraft III engine is more capable, if Starcraft's editor had the same power as War3, then one could easily and try and usurp DotA as the king of the AoS. What you're describing is basically the capability of the editor rather than the map itself.

I know, but we will see with SC2.

EDIT: SC has options for certain things, like more heroes, a non-base system(which feels alot more balanced tbh.)

How often do you play TS? Bnet pubbies aren't known for playing games involving large amounts of waiting, but heaps play TS. I play TS in part because there's always something going on, it's almost full on action most games.