So basically, Islam4UK is an extremist group that believes the United Kingdom should become an Islamic State, and we should follow Sharia Law. They even suggest that once the United Kingdom is taken over they should transform Buckingham Palace in to a mosque.

So basically, what's your view point on the ban, is it a blow against democracy and free speech? Or is it a much wanted and much needed intervention to a group clearly set out on causing trouble (such as the protest march they had planned?)

My personal opinion and view on the situation is that this group is not only a total extremity and obvious terrorist group, but they're also a bunch of idiots. I for one am glad they are being banned from the United Kingdom.

I agree. I don't put that much faith into free speech and democracy, and believe that such systems naturally warp when pressure is applied (US examples: Civil War, WWI, WWII). Also, I don't like the Islamic extremist movement, so I wouldn't even really be displeased if they stuck the whole lot of them in jail for life.

Dey be trollin' IRL!

That's the whole point. Troll others to get them to react, then use that reaction to justify action against them. And so the cycle of pride goes.



Well at least the stupid drama is entertaining.

Actually, no it isn't.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 15 2010, 12:47 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

In real life, if their reaction is to put you in jail for life, there's not much you can do using their reaction .

I think since it's now illegal to be a part of Islam4UK or any of it's other names and other names they may go by in the future is now a criminal offense under the terrorism act and you will get 10 years in jail. It's because a majority of their members turn out to be suicide bombers or just general terrorists, and whilst their leader claims that he cannot be held responsible for the actions of former members, we all know that they're in the middle of it inciting racial hatred and starting it all.

If a group of people are unprofessional enough to become caught and banned from the UK, then they obviously aren't a serious threat, more of just a riotous threat. Also, if a group of people are enough of extremists to be active in what is probably the best country ever at espionage, then they completely deserve to be treated the way this group is due to their sheer audacity. I say claps for the UK.

It would seem that this group's idea/plans were poorly thought out. It's one thing to speak one's mind, but another to speak one's mind while waving a gun around. I'd have to rate them as an below average Islam extremist group.

They've had it coming for a long time.

If you try to take advantage of living in a country where political freedoms are fairly high, and push your rights to the very limit, exploiting loopholes and encouraging terrorism, then quite frankly you deserve to be banned.

uuuhhhhh being throwing someone in jail will definitely provoke the kind of counter-reaction they are looking for.

From who? You think the English general public support Muslim extremists?

There is *chucles* no way they would, or any group, change the United Kingdom's culture or by taking them over. And it's not even funny. People with Islam belief, sure why not? But you basically mentioned that this group would simply change the UK's culture completely. And this shouldn't be a serious topic, especially by the fact that the United Kingdom is 92.1% white, and policed/colonized/imperialized the world during 16th Century to early 20th Century (Including the Middle East), making that it was once the largest Empire, once had the most powerful Navy in the world by far, and once contributed 1/4th of the entire world population. And today, the UK is in NATO, and the European Union, keeps the Common Wealth, still keeps the tradition of Queen/King, keeps the powerful military intact, as well as having their language, English, being the most recognized and is in the top 3 of most spoken language in the world. These "extremists" are capable of entering the UK in a commercial airplane, commercial boat or commercial bullet trains, and that's probably it. The UK could just send the SAS to eliminate their origin.
What makes them think that it would be possible to change the UK's culture? If that actually happened, then you'd be shitting bricks out of your mouth.

But seriously now, they would never stand a chance in changing a developed country, or even a developing country that's not too poor. The best they are capable of doing would be adding a criminal society and gang violence, if not terrorism. /end of discussion.

EDIT: I Just google'd about. From google images, I found some guy with a sign written as "Islam will dominate the world". Wow, are they that arrogant, stupid, and nationalistic? Did these people never heard what reasons caused World War 1? Reasons not only by some leader was assassinated by a Serbian, but each country used nationalism as an excuse to fight each other in the trenches, leaving it to be a pointless war. These "extremists" are idiots, end of story.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 16 2010, 2:24 am by KrayZee.

From the very people they target - neutral, fairly religious Muslims. If the neutral Muslims see something like Muslims being thrown in jail for speaking their mind, they may become more sympathetic.

It's conservative propaganda, but the numbers are sourced.

Britain's energy independence, demographics and financial status are poor. While turning it into an Islamic State is unlikely in the short term, it's possible within 50 years without a European backlash.

CAFG's video is largely right (except that I believe one country did rebound from 1.2 to 1.35 or something, but that's irrelevant) in saying that without any intervention, Europe will become Islamic eventually. However, once it becomes more obvious, I believe that the governments will start lashing out, stopping immigration into the country, strengthening government institutions to deal with the problems and to increase the population growth rate. Unless their governments are completely incompetent, of course. Europe fear of Muslims is obvious, and it will manifest itself eventually, and the problem will be reversed. Also, keep in mind that once Muslims in wealthy European countries acclimatize, their birth rates will decrease to maybe slightly above white birth rates.

Additionally, being a Muslim state isn't necessarily a bad thing if governments handle it properly. I'll use Russia as an example, as it was most successful - the Republic of Tatarstan is a republic with a majority Muslim population, is rather peaceful without any of the traditional multi-religious problems. In fact, the only problems with Muslims in the country stem from Chechnya and neighboring Dagestan and Ingushetia, where terrorist movements are financially supported from abroad. If Tatars replaced ethnic Russians as the majority, very little would change, and I'm sure some other European countries can control population dispersion and such to assimilate the newcomers. Additionally, I'll gleefully note that the Russian demographic decline is over, and where at some point it lost more than half a million people in a year, the population is now growing (and will probably accelerate).

"In 30 years, there will be 50 millions Muslims in America". 50 Million? Not a single mention about other nationalities? They are ignoring other countries, and that video sounds like arrogance to me. And talk about bias, what about China and India (No, very high majority are not Muslims)?
Here, taken from wikipedia and U.S. Census Bereau:
Earth: 6,692,030,277
"All Muslims in the World": 1.3 to 1.5 billion people
"Christians (In all forms)": 2-3 billion people.
China, excluding Chinese immigrants abroad: 1,338,612,968 (Especially under One-Child Policy)
India: 1,198,003,000
Europe: 731,000,000

United States is basically the land of immigrants, and from statistics at wikipedia:
Native Americans: 2.5 million
Chinese Americans: 1,930,202 – 3,538,407 (1,338,612,968 at home China)
Filipino Americans: 3.1 million - 4 million (91,983,000 at home Philippines)
French Americans: 11,800,000 (65,073,482 at home France)
Italian Americans: 17,829,184 (60,231,214 at home Italy)
English Americans: 27,516,394 (51,446,000 at home England)
Mexican Americans: 30,738,559 (111,211,789 at home Mexico)
Irish Americans: 36,278,332 (6,197,100 at home Ireland)
British Americans: 36,564,465 (61,500,000 at home UK, mostly English)
African Americans: 37,586,050 (1,000,010,000 at home continent Africa, despite some Muslim countries)
Hispanic/Latino Americans: 46,891,456 [Including Mexicans] (569 million at home Latin America)
German Americans: 50,271,790 (82,329,758 at home Germany)
Total "White" Americans: 228,182,410

Today's Muslim Americans: 2.5 million to 7 million.
Today's Muslim Europeans: 53 million, but only 16 million in the European Union.

7 Million to 50 Million in thirty years? What about the 50.2 million Germans today? Is that number going to decrease or increase in the next thirty years?


Not to mention abroad, I mean really, there are Asians, Hispanics, and Africans at Canada and Europe too, you know. And at this day of age, people are slowly moving to atheism...

Also according to this:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html

About the United States...

You've got to be bullshitting me if Islam would take over America though immigration, because not only the video exaggerates (I mean honestly, US, Canada, and Europe simultaneously?) but also is nothing compared to Hispanics, Asians, and Pacific Islanders.

I'm not sure about Europe being taken over, but I heavily doubt Muslims would populate the most in Canada and the United States. I live in San Francisco, and I hear that "Asians will take over San Francisco", or "Canada", or how "Mexicans will take over California". I never heard that "Muslims will take over America". Honestly, they are exaggerating on taking over "America", especially that Asians (I'm one of the Asians) and Mexicans is more true and is actually happening in the Western and Southern States. And I doubt that Islam would stand a chance against them.

What logic is behind that video? What, if it tries to make sense, each Muslim would have dual/multiple citizenship if contribute to Europe, US, and Canada to make the total? So dual nationality to keep count? And Germany and Austria doesn't accept dual citizenship.


EDIT: From http://www.census.gov

EDIT2: Before anyone mentions something, I know Muslim is a religion. But the high majority of immigrants are Christians/Catholic/etc., not Muslims. The Anti-Muslim/Islam thought in the States (Mostly the ones that are densely populated by White Americans) is ridiculous, despite that many Muslims do not affiliate themselves to those responsible of the 9/11 attacks. In the US, even at certain areas where they accept Muslims, it doesn't mean they will be converted to Muslim. Atheist, while not much, is rising Europe will decrease the belief in God, spirit or life force. 1/3 of France, 3/10 of Czech Republic, 1/4 of Germans, 1/5 of British do no believe in god, spirit, or life force according to Eurobarometer at 2005. Yes, while beliefs will soon decline and Muslims immigrates to rise the Muslim population in Europe, there would probably be debates on that. Like during the 1800s, Darwin vs the Church, and today in America, Evolution vs Creationism. I'm predicting that a spark of Islam vs Evolution debates may rise, and is already happening today, despite Muslims can accept Evolution just as a Christian or Catholic can, "may" show a decline in Muslim belief in Europe during the future in thirty years.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 16 2010, 6:15 am by KrayZee.

Trust me, this shit is real. It may not affect you yet, but it probably will once it takes over Europe. And believe me, it will. I see more muslim's than I see British people. I am actually a target of racism in my own country (IE, I have had insults thrown at me for being British and so did my ex.) Along with extreme groups such as Islam4UK, this shit isn't just fake, it's pretty real.

I for one hope there's a back lash, because god damn we need one. I am getting fed up of seeing burka's everywhere and those FUGLY indian dresses and sandals. They're so ugly, and i'm sorry, but I throw up a little inside when I see a woman on the hottest days of the year, where I am sweating like crazy in shorts and t-shirt; dressed in a burka. I was hoping that Athiests would poppulate this world, but clearly not... action must be taken >.>!

I said I'm not sure about Europe. But at Canada and the United States? I really, really doubt that. Here at the States, while also true that Whites of European descent will become a minority in thirty or so years in America and Canada, it doesn't mean that of Middle Eastern, or North Eastern of Africa would qualify to become a majority here. If anything, Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Hispanics may become the majority here, but they, like me (I'm Asian), will have clear American attitudes, as those of European descent. Hispanics would rather increase the population that believes in Christianity, specifically to Roman Catholicism. But at the same time, Schools at the Democratic States will lead atheism eventually, which will decline religion in general, despite accepting others who they are.

The video said "50 million" in thirty years, but the fastest are Asians and Pacific Islanders which is about 41%, which are mostly of Christian, or Hindu descent. I can't find a reliable source from the video suggesting that thought Muslims would be more dominant in 30 years, but a smaller number like 41 million people in 40 years, the Asian and Pacific Islanders will be the majority. Either the video is exaggerating, or clearly lying on the "American" part.

Also, with the efforts of Spain and the US, they made East Asian countries such as the Philippines, and South Korea more Christian and Catholic during the late 19th Century and early 20th Century. Asians, mostly Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Japanese, and Indian will not only immigrate to the US, but also they have something as high as 90% of High School Graduation, 50% to 68% of Bachelor's Degree, which allowed this group to have much higher income than White Americans. Those of Hispanic descent, while the increasing population is great, their level of income is not as high as White Americans.

If anything, the US could turn more atheist, or add more Catholics than the Protestants, which may become a minority despite that both Catholics and Protestants are under the same base, Christianity.

As for Europe, I am somewhat skeptical in believing that they would take over Europe. And lastly, Indians != Muslims. Indians contribute to Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism, about almost never Muslim (Way less than 0.1% I'd assume). Pakistan, west of India, is full of Muslims. And guess what? Both India and Pakistan hate each other just as much as how the Jewish Israel hates the surrounding Muslim Middle East that hates Israel. If comparable, between the US and Soviet relations during the Cold War are far more friendlier than these guys are to each other. India and Pakistan would be willing to nuke each other, and each arrogantly said they'd win either: India has more people that survives due to over a billion population, or Pakistan surviving more due to hiding at mountains.
In short, I'd say Indians, and East Asians immigrating to US will decline the Muslim ideals in the US and Canada, but may accept them just by who they are.




I may get a trip to Italy next or nearly at the end of this year if I have the chance, and I'll keep an eye on everyone I pass by.

This is about Europe. There are Muslim immigrants to the US, but that number is lower than that to Europe, because Europe is easier to get to and because it's hated less than the US (and probably a ton of other reasons). If the US is going to be taken over by a minority, the Mexicans and the Muslims will have to duke it out anyway. . I don't think that the US will 'Muslimize'.
I really expect a backlash. I'm not an expert, obviously, but I don't think something like this ever happened before without a backlash. Once some obsessive billionaire runs a commercial campaign against this, more people will know.
It will vary depending on position in Italy and part of the cities you're visiting.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 19 2010, 4:33 am by CecilSunkure. Reason: Name in quotes.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 16 2010, 4:21 pm by ProtoTank.

I agree on most points, such as the inequality of cultures (though I temper it by basing it on human applicability) and the contempt for political correctness, but I must say that I haven't heard about Muslim hatred of Europe as much as of the US. Ah, well.