A lot of people complain that the sleep duration is too long. I like it at just the place it is to be honest.

@ lil .. I agree. I thought it's too long too. But required for any Mafia movement.

The sleep duration only feels long as long as the gameplay feels aloof. If I solve the latter problem, the former ought to cease to be an issue.

I've just come up with the solution to corralling players/stopping goose chases/wandering: A revival of Snares or some other trap - if Snares, reduce the effectiveness of them because quite frankly they were a bit rigged . Also, with the addition of another Mafia ability, townies would need a new ability of their own (a universal one that mostly gives them an advantage).

Actually you're on the right track thinking that movement control is part of the issue. I didn't like snares when I tried them, though, because it occurred to me that they're basically just random things that you trip over without a lot you can do about (or can be arsed to, more accurately).

My solution was going to be to test out reducing speed for unarmed players, and eliminating armed mode ability mana movement drain for protected players at day.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 2 2010, 12:39 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Update: Got a new beta-ish thing ready. Actually, I'm not sure what to call these anymore. I'm just gonna number them as I go from now on.


Admittedly I'm iffy on the new movement restrictions. I half expect some ragequits from players not wanting to gimp along super slow for over half the game. Well theoretically this does help make things more balanced, so I suppose it's at least worth a test. Gonna try it out soon and come up with ideas from there.

How about a multiplayer test?

Hang on. Got one last niggly tingly shitty little tagnut to deal with here...

If this Beta sucks
I'll ram you up my Butt

Your butt?
Yes my butt

Your butt?
Yes my butt
my butt
MY BUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTT!!

http://www.warbox.us/starcrap/Mafia!%20v1.2%20%5b01%5d.scx


Sorry I won't be able to get on until the weekend. Go on ahead and host it public if you like. Hopefully I've gotten rid of the last of the giant singing poo monsters, too.

This ain't no 'official' release or nothing, though. I still have a page long list of crap to take care of before I'm ready to call v1.2 done.


P.S. If you can, try to repro that day 2 vote bug. I think I fixed it, but if it crops up again I need to know.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 4 2010, 2:16 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Okay, NOW I have some of my time back. Fucking lost it all this week.


I think I'm going to take a break from this now. The above version isn't meant as a release version, but I guess I'll treat it as if it is for now since that's as far as I want to go for the time being. I'll finish it off eventually.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Feb 6 2010, 11:14 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

well theres a problem with this because the player says the color that killed them and leave... if you made all the colors the same and put down units on the voting area showing who your voting for it'll make it harder for people to find out who killed them/who is killing them.

Cloak.



Update: So I'm not completely dissatisfied with unarmed mode slowing, but I definitely need more data. There's currently several bugs, and azala brought up a 'caffeine' idea that I'm considering using...

Aw hell, I'll just post my list here and then get to it whenever I decide to get back to work on this:

1. @Decide: Caffeine ability (ore → gas)?
   
2. Fix house break-in alert not displaying correctly
   
3. Fix corpse placement not working
   
4. Fix duel mode ability disable not working
   
5. Remove voted day player stealth mana stripping (stupid)
   
6. Lower recruiting cost to 2500 ore
   
7. Start off game with more mana
   
8. Use P12 footprints & restore their damageability (high HP; takes time to clean up evidence)
   
9. Crunch in outer layer of the map (and skim off houses)
   

I'm starting to frown at the Investigate ability now. I think I want to remove it. It was supposed to be part of the game's information layer, but now I realized that the game works fine without it, and no one really truly uses it as fully as I'd hoped, anyway. Of course, that implies removing stuff like footprints and such, as well.

Well I'll decide that for v1.3. I'd need more data for that, too.



Later, though.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Feb 6 2010, 9:17 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

I use Investigate a ton. Mostly for footprints and for checking if people are asleep when invited into my manor. Elimination of footprints really just leaves player behavior and house clues as the means to tracking down Mafia. In my opinion it's kind of pointless to remove the investigation element from the game.

I also have a little complaint - there's absolutely no counter to Hide, and players being slow while unarmed doesn't help at all.
Too long; didn't read: Reveal pl0x.

Very well. I guess it isn't hurting anything. I'll leave it alone.

To be honest, that is my intention. You're really not supposed to counter the mafia directly. However I agree at least that encounters are too random, as far as townies are concerned. It's now a similar problem to the Traps I had before. They may as well be random things that appear and fuck you up. Maybe mafia aren't supposed to be stoppable, intrinsically, but I need to do something about their randomness at least...

Lemme reconsider Reveal a bit more, again. I have also an idea to provide proximity pings for every player when another comes near, which at least helps eliminate the random element.



Also, it's important to note now that armed mode eliminates your mafia pings at night. Not sure if I forgot to mention this yet, though. But you can use this to escape or even spy on the mafia, now.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 7 2010, 6:52 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Make investigate reveal mafia maybe?

Think about why I'm about to say no instead of making me have to say it.

Wait... shit!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 7 2010, 10:52 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Also, while I'm at it, here's an example piece of my decision-making logic. I'll use this to decide right now whether to re-insert Reveal and add a Caffeine/Panic ability:

1. Re-insert Reveal?
   1. CAN'T be used while mana is low; requires planning around other mana activities (e.g. recruiting, armed mode use)
      
   2. REDUCES mana activity (e.g. armed mode and recruit) options after use due to mana consumption
      
   3. CAN enable exposure of mafia or attackers for evidence to use for lynch voting
      
   4. CAN temporarily repel attackers at night for escape or for bullying
      
2. Caffeine -or- Panic (ore → 2x gas, gradual transfer) + elimination of slow movement while in effect?
   1. CAN'T be used while mana is low; requires planning around other mana activities (e.g. recruiting, armed mode use)
      
   2. REMOVES mana activity (e.g. armed mode and recruit) options after use due to complete mana consumption; mana always needs to recharge
      
   3. REDUCES planning requirement of mafia's Hide ability use
      
   4. CAN boost awake time for additional raw tactics and for information gathering
      

The significant thing to note is that both of these require their own chunk of usage planning to work them around other ability mana (ore)-dependent activities (recruiting NPC houses, using armed mode, etc.). What this means is that they have to contribute a dimension to the gameplay that's not only worth their cost, but worth allocation of the player's limited mental faculties. Never mind the part where I have to try to get the players to actually even end up making use of them, then.


So let's see: Reveal seems like the kind of thing to throw a temporary monkey wrench into the hierarchy of the townie & mafia dynamic. This adds additional dependency on tactical planning during the day/night interactions. It also contributes to the information layer by helping reveal footprint paths laid at night. However, neither of these things are really terribly important at the moment. Players are already taxed to their limits with planning decisions as is (as far as my data reveals, anyway). And barely anyone has demonstrated effective use of investigation for footprints, anyhow. I think this is ahead of its time, really. I really should have long ago ironed out the basic gameplay before forcing in the footprint and tactics layers. I'm pushing this to v1.3.

Caffeine or Panic. I'll just call it Panic for now. This too adds dependency on tactical planning due to its mana requirement. However, the only thing it really adds is additional time for raw tactics (ability mana is gone; no arming or recruiting) or else information gathering activities (Investigating footprints, observing players, etc.). The former adds a buffer for careless players (assuming they use it) against getting prematurely stuck sleeping. The latter addition of added information gathering time may be helpful if people actually made use of it. But again, that aspect is ahead of its time, so just I can't plan for that. I also don't have enough data to tell me if a buffer against sleep carelessness is important to have, either. My inclination is to think this leans more towards mafia favor, too, since it forgives their use of Hide.



tl;dr: Not enough data to decide on either of these. So I won't. These'll be v1.3 decisions.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Feb 7 2010, 11:30 am by Tuxedo-Templar.