Title says it. I want recommendations what AGP 4x card is suitable for an Athlon 1700+ with 1 GB RAM.
The card should max out gaming power for what the processor can handle. Price range $20 - $80

I was thinking about something along the lines of a GeForce 6200. Maybe a bit better?
What's the ATi equivalent of a GF6200?

Not sure about the CPU and this is probably overkill for it but it was the only one I found with GDDR3 in your price range:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129077

Or possibly this for something cheaper/weaker:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161237
Probably still overkill.

If you don't mind Open Box (I don't.) you could go with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102814R

Look, upgrading AGP is a bad idea. I'd like to know why you're buying an AGP card when its been a dead slot for years. O.o

Because its cheaper than buying a whole new computer for $400.

It's not for me btw. It's my mothers' computer and the Athlon is still decent for moderate needs, but it has a terrible GFX (GeForce 2 MX-400) in it. And my little brother desperately wants to play some GTA San Andreas. That's why he gets that GFX for X-Mas.

Checking your suggestions now...
Any reason for those cards? Because I won't buy on Newegg (I'm german) and I'm just generally asking for what is reasonable for that computer.

EDIT: I need Sub-D and passive cooling would also be nice.

EDIT2: Yeah they seem to be overkill considering there's only a mediocre single core at work. Will a weaker card be much cheaper? There's not much point in spending $10 - $20 more than needed just because there's a high limit... Also what about Nvidia cards?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 9 2009, 5:28 pm by NudeRaider.

True but if they're going to replace the entire PC in the next 2 years it would be a better call to do it now.

Ah, I see its a gift.
I really recommend one of the two above. The open box wouldn't be such a cool gift because it isn't in a nice retail box.

Any AGP HD3000 series with GDDR2 or GDDR3 should be fine.

Why do you need D-sub? (Edit: Most cards come with a DVI to D-sub adapter.) Passive cooling is a no-no unless they're using a case with good airflow which I highly doubt.

It may be overkill but that's just what I'd do. An HD3650, any AGP model, should be fine. When it comes to AGP Nvidia cards, I wouldn't go with anything lower than an 8500GT AGP. See this: http://www.wegotbetterdeals.com/zotac-nvidia-geforce-8500-gt-graphics-card-zt85teh2pfsr-512-mb-gddr2-hdcp-dual-link-dvi-vga-hdtv-tvout-turbo-cache-pci-express-video-card-p-750.html

If you're trying to be an NV fanboy, its showing. If you're just asking why not NV, its because I was looking at Newegg and they don't have too many NV AGP offerings.

Like I said, nothing below an HD3650 or 8500GT IMO, but do as you will.

I'm seeing that some of the 3650's have a 64-bit memory interface instead of 128-bit. Especially if there is very little price difference, you will probably want to make sure you get one with the 128-bit memory interface. When they cut back the memory interface from 128-bit to 64-bit, it effectively halves the speed of the memory.

FYI, my x1950 pro is bottlenecked by my athlon x2 windsor @2.4 GHz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102862
here's passive cooling, and it will definitely be bottlenecked by your processor. Be warned if you get a passive cooling, you're going to have to clean out your case, or it will probably overheat.

The ATi equivalent of a 6200 is a x300, and anything under x1300. The 6200 is a better card than the x300 as well. The more I think about it, the more I'd recommend a 6200 rather than a 3450, since your single core is going to bottleneck just about anything. Unless Ex has some crazy reason the 6200 (with gddr2, make sure you get one of those versions) would be a terrible card, I don't see any reason not to get it. Also, it seems there's a lot more 6200s left around than the newer ones (which might be an indication of how bad they were) because nVidia is a much larger company than ATi. Also to take note is power consumption, and I'm a bit worried a higher end graphics card will require something more than that computer has. My x1950 Pro recommends at least 20 amps on the 12 v rail, something which was uncommon way back when.

Don't forget, you're buying in the time where ATi was starting to lose the lead. Nvidia sucked during ATi's 9000s, and owned everything during the HD 2000-3000s.

6200 reviewIt seems to play games fairly well on a p4 @2.8.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 9 2009, 7:36 pm by rockz.

I was recommending 3650s, not 3450s.

Okay, thanks for your replies so far. There's a lot to consider obviously...

The replies first:

This computer will only be replaced when it dies. It handles everything my parents are doing with ease and my brother is no priority. If anything, he'll get a own computer.

Yeah, but I'm not talking deals yet, still deciding where to get it from (local shop or ebay) and what model(s) come into question.

Ah well then it's fine, I guess. Although an integrated Sub-D would be slightly preferable.

Ah ok. I'm not exactly a NV fanboy, but so far my NV cards served me well (just like my ATis just so that you know), so I wondered if there's any reason to leave them out. Especially since my old computer was an Athlon XP 1600+ with a GF6200 and they seemed to fit together very well.




The more important points:

Thanks for mentioning it, I'll definitely have to consider that upon choosing the card as I won't upgrade the PSU unless it's absolutely necessary.

No airflow. Just a standard crappy grey tower. However I'd really try to avoid the noise of those high speed fans because as far as I know there's no throttling for AGP cards. I can very well imagine my mum going all crazy about the computer being three times as loud as before just because her son insisted on that "stupid gta" she despises anyway...
Also my old 6200 was passively cooled and I had no heat issues. Actually it was way cooler than the 9600GT I have now.
So I wonder why you guys are so freaked on heat generation. I thought older cards went much cooler due to lower MHz?

The power supply and heat generation issues are the main reasons why I don't want an overkill card. I don't know the system very well since I don't live there, so I have to make sure beforehand that everything is running smoothly. This is the very reason why it's me buying the card, not my mother.

So, put your hand on your heart, Ex is it really necessary (necessary as in games would be performed noticeably better - not just like 3 fps more which you only notice in benchmarks) to get a HD3650 rather than a 1000, 2000 or good 9000 series?
And which of these is the best choice considering I can't upgrade air flow or PSU? (Because then it would really be better to buy a whole new pc.)
Isn't there also eco series which have low power consumption, noise and heat generation? Seems like it would be a good choice here.

Another general question: Are all AGP 8x cards downwards compatible to a 1x - 4x port?

I guess the price discussion has become secondary.

As far as power, you could try comparing the numbers from the power supply calculator here: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
That's what I did when I was trying to pick a lower power card for one of my systems.

According to the numbers there the Radeon HD 3000 series may use a little more power in the mid-range and lower cards than the other series. By the way, make sure that whatever card you pick does not have a connector on it for additional power. This is a sign of a card that has higher power requirements.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Dec 9 2009, 9:57 pm by ShadowFlare.

Its all about what you can find. I'm recommending from the information I have at the ready. I'm not versed in AGP cards and so I only have the specs from the card newegg shows me to look at. If you find a nice 2800XT, 8400GS, or something, go for it.

Good idea.

Assuming 50% capacitor aging as the computer isn't new and should still last several years and remain functional,
I got 261W for the system with a GF6200
and 314W for the system with a X1950 Pro.
This is 53W more, which is a LOT!

My guess is the computer has a 300W PSU, 350 if I'm lucky.

So no further suggestions considering these tightened restrictions? *sigh*

Alright, finished research and I came to the conclusion that the ATi Radeon HD 2400 Pro fits my needs best. (Yes I know it's not a gamer card, but the old single core it will be put in will never be a gamer PC according to nowadays standards.)
The HD2400 has very low power consumption, but still is quite a bit faster than the GF6200 and is compatible to AGP 4x. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find a card meeting these requirements... And also comes in a passively cooled variant, but that isn't a priority anymore after speaking with my mum.
Is there any reason why I absolutely can't or shouldn't use this card?

My next problem is that this card seems hard to get. I already asked in some local computer stores, 2 online stores and eBay, but still no luck. Suggestions where to get it or to look for when it has to be shipped to Germany?

you should not get it because It is a 64bit width card. What is wrong with HD3XXX? and What is the watt of the psu?

I don't know the PSU wattage. It has no label on either sides, so I assume the worst, which is I can only support the original wattage of the AGP 2.0 (2x-4x) port: 25W. Maybe a bit more, but I'm not going to risk more than 40W total.

Everything I've seen with 128 Bit has ridiculous power consumption or isn't even compatible with AGP 4x.
I guess the HD 3450 might work as the power calculator says 32W - 45W (0-50% capacitor aging). But I'd rather not risk it. It's still an option if I fail to get th HD 2400 though.
What I meant was if I could get into trouble with the 2400. For example I overlooked that it's AGP x8 only or something like that.

My priorities are as follows: (in that order)
1) max. $80
2) Reliable (works in the given system, new, warranty)
3) Faster than a GF6200
4) low heat
5) All extra speed I can get
6) low noise

Still open for suggestions fitting these priorities though.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 19 2009, 12:53 am by NudeRaider.

As far as the AGP speed, the speeds are backward and forward compatible. You can use a slower card in a faster slot or a faster card in a slower slot (AGP 1x might be an exception to this, but that's irrelevant). PCI Express graphics cards are also this same way between different PCI Express slot speeds (among ones with the same slot size), as far as I know.

That is true for the speeds, but the problem is that AGP 1.0 (1x) is 3.3 Volts, AGP 2.0 (2x-4x) is 1.5 Volts and AGP 3.0 and higher (8x - 16x) is 0.8 Volts.
So it's not just a matter of speed but the devices have to support the voltages too. There are many cards and motherboards that are downwards compatible, but there's also quite a few cards that are x8 exclusively. They won't break anything, but they just won't work.

The 2000 series was abysmal for ATi. Perhaps this was just high end, though, what with the 8800 being such a beast and all. To put it in perspective, ATi couldn't compete with the 8800 until the 4000 series, where they just blew nvidia out of the water. Is there much difference between a 3450 and a 2400? I don't think you can get much cheaper than a 3450 anyway.

Not to say it's terrible, since it's certainly better than a 6200, but again when we're talking price differences, you may as well spend $10 extra to get the card from a decent store if they have it.

Just that we're not talking price differences. Nor are we talking speed differences. We are talking power consumption. And also heat generation. (check my priorities list)
How sure can I be that this old unknown PSU will be able to handle a 3450?