Hello. I had an idea for an arena-ish map where, among other things, players have access to many different spells. Spells are organized into "sets". Each set contains three normal spells and one "ultimate" spell which is substantially stronger but costs more mana. Each player may select three spell sets: One primary, one secondary (+20% mana cost) and one tertiary (+20% mana cost and can't use the ultimate spell). I need advice on my spell sets. Here are the current sets: (Each player is a zealot, if it matters)





















I will post more spell sets as I think of them. Feel free to make suggestions.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jun 18 2009, 1:11 pm by TassadarZeratul.

I don't want to read all of it, but from the first spell, this one sucks.

IMO, these spells are a bit boring. It seems like most of the spells are the same. Most of them seem like summoning spells, which I find boring.. I would like to see every hero have a different feel- not just every hero as a summoner.
You should try to make all of the spells different, so you can tell what is what and who is who. It wouldn't be fun if all spells did the same things and looked like the same things.

I'm not a fan of default abilities, either. (i.e. plague) You can always hit an ally by accident. And, if you miss, it will be a waste of mana.

EDIT: You added a NULL magic set...Now that's what I like... I looked at GREED and that looks pretty good, too.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 18 2009, 3:49 am by xYoshix.

@Echo: Would unit replacement to Dragoon be better?

@Yoshi: I suppose I did go a bit summon-heavy. I'll try to get rid of a few of the summoning spells. Still, do you really think that Wizardry would play anything like Null or Greed?

I don't think that you should just stick with wizardry. With all of the "wizard" spells, they all look pretty boring. The GREED and NULL spell sets look awesome, though. I suggest just making different classes, instead of only wizards.

I don't think I understand. What do you mean, "I don't think that you should just stick to wizardry"?

I like these. They're all sound ideas...but how are you expecting to increase the attack rate of the photon cannon on the Conjur ultimate? And I've got a suggestion for a Greed spell: How about reducing the enemy's funds by 50% [assuming it's gonna be teams against teams], and giving the caster 10% of the reduced funds? [Money Well?]
That sounds more greedy than being able to use the upgrades from any location...

Create cannon, wait, remove cannon, create cannon, wait, remove cannon, etc. It only lasts for a few seconds, is not permenent.

It's an FFA, so that wouldn't really work. Although the general idea (stealing money from enemies) is a good one.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 18 2009, 4:14 am by TassadarZeratul.

Since it's FFA, all the more reason to steal the money. Just drop the income from enemy funds to like 5% or something. If it's FFA, that would f*sk things up more than creating a ring of firebats around the enemy--he can't upgrade with what's now your money...

True. I will replace Access Shops with a mmoney-stealing attack.

I just noticed that Necromancy and Machinery are pretty similar. Should I axe Machinery?

Personally, I like it. They look like they could create some fun gameplay.
However, I agree against Battlecruiser Yamato. I've never liked the huge delay on that spell, personally.
Also, I think that using Missile Turrets->Machine Shops would make for better walls than Supply Depots. At least, something that's 2x2 - 3x2 walls have always bothered me immensely.
I'd like to suggest finding a way to implement moving bunkers ( i.e., create bunker, move to different location, so that it still attacks ) . I don't know why I never see these in arena maps, but I think they could be pretty awesome. ;P Although... honestly, I can't really see anything that looks like a good candidate for replacement.
3 "explodes when morphed" units seems a bit excessive, honestly. It does give me a random thought, though - what about being able to explode Nydus Canals on construction, to give the Necro a neat advantage over others whenever he's on creep?
Arbiter ultimate on Shadow feels horribly trite. Which is especially inexcusable given that with how vague "Shadow" is, one could find a way to explain all kinds of neat powers.

I dunno, they are pretty similar now that you mention it. maybe move the upgrade-from-anywhere spell to machinery--seeing as how robots could take a radio signal and work on something while you're out...
[I never did understand why you would want a SCV to build a wall...seems rather pointless, but eh.]

hmmm...I just did a little math...and with the casting player earning 5% of the 50% reduction, he would only get 1/40 of the reduction [1/20 * 1/2=1/40]. Meaning that if all other players had a total of $4,000, he would get just $100. Doesn't sound so greedy to me...maybe have it so any player within a certain distance gets sapped for a higher amount, or the same amount with like 25% of the sapped amount returned? [1/4 * 1/2=1/8]
That way he'd get $500 off of $4,000, but most likely only from one player or something.

Good timing may get him like a billion though...mayhap have a diminished return for each player within the area? I'll think about this tonight and give you my best idea ASAP, k?

EDIT: from now on, I'm calling return [or earnings] on reduction RoR. It's annoying to type that.

EDIT 2: If you intend to use a location to have the possibility of multiple players, could you give me the approximate size?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 18 2009, 4:48 am by poison_us. Reason: improved readability, added question

Most your spells are boring. All you are doing is creating units and using them as they are. What you should do is use mobile grid and make the spells flashy and combine different units and things like that. If you put a lot of work into it and reference in timing and how long it takes to attack, you can make an awesome spell.

I didn't really see any spells that paticularly struck me in any way as New.
A few might be cool, but non were originally.
I'd say at least 50% of your spells are just creating a unit to cast it's default spell. This is gay.

Okay then. Will try to find a replacement.

Sure. Although I'll still leave the ability to build Depots as well.

I think I'll replace one of the Machinery spells. Probably the Bomb. Machinery is getting a total workover, btw.

Good point. I'll remove Necro's exploding Spire. Machinery's Bomb spell is getting replaced with the bunker thing.

Now THERE's an idea. I even know how to do this.

Define "trite", I am unfamiliar with the word. >.> My thoughts on that spell were that it can be used for cloaking or for a movement spell. Any ideas for replacement?

Probably not, doesn't fit with the rest of the spell set.

Create an artificial choke point? Slow down enemies? (Would it help if it was a Probe that built Pylons that turn into Machine Shops? Then you could rapidly build a pretty big wall.)

That's true, I'll try to get rid of some of those, along with most of the summoning spells.

EDIT: Updated Wizardry, Necromancy, Machinery, and Conjuration.

Does anyone like the Alchemy set, or should I axe it? Upon further consideration it seems pretty gay to me.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 18 2009, 1:13 pm by TassadarZeratul.

Every D&D player knows that magic missile does crappy damage but cannot be dodged.

Well I couldn't think of a better name. Any suggestions?

P.S. MAXIMIZED EMPOWERED MAGIC MISSILE!

Well, these spells are alright, but as people have said before, a little bit boring. These spells are kind if similar to the ones you would find in temple seige or custom hero wars, where they are just spawn spells. EX: Spawn 3 mutas for 2 hits. I mean those are ok, but they are just plain out boring and not very cool. Maybe you should do vHP, or if you dont want to do that, you can just make some flashy exploshions and stuff, but to make it dammage people, bring over some scarabs and have them attk.
Although they're kind a boring, they do work though, so gj

GAH. I can't get the Money Well for Greed. It always seems like the RoR is gonna be insanely huge if every player is inside the location, or my method would take huge numbers of triggers. Once I even averaged the reduction without noticing until I was done.

How many players are there gonna be in your map?

Oh nvm...I thought that....nvm xD
Many of these spells need more originality, rather than just creating a unit and killing it. Even Stun or Slowing spells would work better in the sets you have now (i.e wizardry). :S

EDIT: I think that the unit replacement spells need to be changed, too. No one wants to re-select a unit when using a spell