First, I want to thank you for making the fight demo.

This sytem is so awesome, it is just the best attack/defense system ever, this game will simply be the best i ever played, you HAVE to finish it. It is really hard to burrow/unburrow at the right time not to die, but it is part of the gameplay.

The best way to fight is to hotkey the drone to 8 and the zealot to 7 (They are near the U)
Then, you can play with only theese 3 buttons when fighting.
Seriously, this is a great system, far beyond my imagination and understanding, i just hope you will finigh the map!

Edit: I tested the burrow map too, and i like it better. I didn't tried to select the zealot and the zergling since the zealot attacks whitout being ordered (he does not attacks the units you choose to, but if there are only few of them, there is no problem) and there was 0 glitch with the zergling move.

Personally, i would've chosed a bit more known subject for the towns' names, but thats me, it seems like soil names looks good
Anyway, way to go PirateKing, this will be the best RPG i ever played!

I didn't like five triggers to much, to glitchy, you couldn't go back if you made a mistake easily.

I hope this map makes much more complex and entertaining puzzles.

Quote from Mp)Dungeon-Master

The best way to fight is to hotkey the drone to 8 and the zealot to 7 (They are near the U)

Personally, I would actually go for 8 and 0 as hotkeys because they are more ergonomical-friendly when you want to press 'u' without having to move your hand.

@Kaias: ah, I understand.

Quote from Zergblender

But I thought Loess was spelled "Löss".

Using an E is a common alternative to an umlaut, at least in German. So oe instead of ö, ae instead of ä, etc.

@qPirateKing: A separate trigger map and a separate terrain map, huh? Interesting. Do you have any kind of rudimentary terrain in the trigger map? How do you arrange the locations?

Also, what's your primary method of arranging terrain? In Legacy of Hæan, for example, the layout (at least for the first part, I haven't gotten very far) seems pretty obvious -- with multiple starting locations, you'd need to arrange them surrounding a central common exploration area. But with Deep Blue, how'd you decide to have it flow from top to bottom rather than bottom to top? Or left to right?

@razorsnail:
The trigger map has some basic placeholder terrain at the moment. As I create more of the terrain on the other map, I copy and paste it into the trigger map and then adjust the locations and such.

How I arrange my areas is often a matter of what I 'feel' is right. I'm not particularly well-versed in design theory, so I operate with a great deal of intuition and a TON of testing. I apologise for not having a good answer, but the truth is that when I made Deep Blue, I didn't think at all about the layout of everything beforehand. I carved out a town and filled in the empty space. Then I tested it, made any necessary changes, and tested it again. It's a fairly time-consuming process, but one that I feel is very natural.

In retrospect, it might be better to go from the bottom up because you can only see the southwest and southeast 'faces' of cliffs. Hm, I'll have to keep that one in mind. Anyway, hope you got something out of my senseless rambling.

13 February 2008
Another combat map

I've attached it. Press Q this time instead of burrowing/moving.

-q

look forward to seeing more qpk, include some more screenies plz

Good luck, as if you need it haha =P

21 February, 2009
Compatibility issues and future-proofing

After having tried EUDs, I have to say that they can be used to great effect. I feel like the map is more functional with EUDs, and quite cool as well. It really makes me want to use EUDs in the final product, but I have the usual concerns that people throw out there when EUDs are discussed. I don't want my map to only be playable on Windows machines, nor do I want future patches to make my map unplayable. The original plan, then, was to make 2 versions of my map. Here are some examples of how the maps would have different features.

Version A:
Attack/Block using key presses (q and/or w)
Use slotted items using key presses (z, x, c, v)
Virtual HP using EUD health detection
A HP healing system where you can heal 1 hp from defeating enemies (i.e. heart drops in Zelda)

Version B:
Attack/Block using movement or burrow
Use slotted items using a gateway (build units)
No virtual HP
A HP healing system in which designated healing points are found in various areas around the map.

It is definitely within my capabilities to produce two maps using different systems, but I have begun to sour on the idea of multiple copies. Why not have one map that has all the features? I could set it up so that the map detects whether EUDs are working and adapts itself accordingly. I could even allow the player to decide how he or she would like to play the map. It would definitely take more work to put everything into one map, but I think that the challenge of designing it so that the EUD parts and non-EUD parts are interchangeable could be an enjoyable one. So, I've decided that I am going to be making a single version of my map. I will try to make it so that the player can decide which system he or she likes best, and, if his or her computer supports it, allow them to choose to use EUDs or not. If it gets too frustrating... well, we'll see when the time comes.

-q

I personally liked the Zergling movement most, because there is some lag time to deal with making it harder to become pro with the technique, it's universal, and it doesn't have much lag time like the burrow/unburrow.
(Note: I found it easier to use with just the zergling selected though, as opposed to zergling and zealot.)

The only problem I see is that it is difficult to figure out whether you're attacking or defending.

Since you're using EUD keypresses, it's safe to assume that this is a single-player RPG, correct?

I look forward to it. =)

The system is somewhat new, but It is hard to use because of the lag

Also making a 2 in 1 map will require more possible triggers and probably more lag. You should think twice before making the decision.

Quote from FaZ-

Since you're using EUD keypresses, it's safe to assume that this is a single-player RPG, correct?

I look forward to it. =)

Correct

Quote from Wormer

The system is somewhat new, but It is hard to use because of the lag

Also making a 2 in 1 map will require more possible triggers and probably more lag. You should think twice before making the decision.

Since it's single player, play it solo on LAN, and which one? The burrow or move or the keyboard strikes? only the keyboard strikes are fast enough to play with battle.net latency.

I don't think so. A 2 in 1 is the best way to go, I seriously doubt allowing them to chose their system will create any sort of noticeable lag. They are small pieces in a big puzzle.

Quote from Kaias

I don't think so. A 2 in 1 is the best way to go, I seriously doubt allowing them to chose their system will create any sort of noticeable lag. They are small pieces in a big puzzle.

I think this is more of an issue for slow computers. I remember my old notebook would lag seriously in games that had large numbers of triggers, out of lack of processing power. Custom maps can really push older computers to their limits, even when running a 10 year old game.

Seems like Kaias knows more about my map than I do

For anyone who is worried about lag, I am here to allay your concerns. Adding the EUD combat system only took a total of 7 triggers. None of them are continuously run. In addition, the EUD item 'gateway replacement' will take 5-6 triggers to implement. My maps have never had trigger lag issues because my systems are very simplistic and because I use very few triggers in general. AI lag issues are another story, but I'm sure this map will not have those problems either.

Also, few of you have seen the finalised EUD combat system, but let me tell you now that it's quite an improvement over all the samples I posted in this thread. You'll just have to take my word for it on this one!

Expect a new map by the end of the week.

Quote from [Pigy_G]:]

I didn't like five triggers to much, to glitchy, you couldn't go back if you made a mistake easily.

I hope this map makes much more complex and entertaining puzzles.

Not being able to complete Five Triggers only by thinking and not moving => Me >> You. Finally, we have a proof!
@Kaias: The next version of Five Triggers will be released soon?
@qPK: If your map is intended to be played only by the map makers, I would highly recommand you to make a puzzle a bit like Five Triggers and maybe add a "Tip" message for the one that do not know how detection in locations are done, etc...

I've been following this map quite closely ever since playing one of your uncompleted projects, and I can't wait.
From the tiny bit which I've seen and heard of so far, this map is going to be so far beyond what the normal B-Netter has ever played. I look forward to the finished project.

1 March, 2009
Two months in the books

I woke up early tonight to watch some live SC progaming, and here's the deal: If Jaedong loses to Bisu, I am going to stop following pro-SC for the month of March out of disgust. Quite honestly, pro-SC has been a huge distraction. The last time I made progress on my map seems to be a week ago. So, if you want me to focus hard on mapping, I guess you ought to hope that Bisu is victorious after the dust settles. To be perfectly frank, I am not confident that Jaedong will win. Bisu is one scary mofo. LJD hwaiting!

As far as the map is concerned, I'm currently cobbling together the NPC interactions. The terrain for the general world is about 80% done while the dungeon interiors will be created as I design them. The systems are coming along nicely, but I'm starting to view the deadline with some more apprehension. It's already been 2 months, and I am definitely not 1/6 of the way done. On top of that is the looming release date of SC2 which I have set as a sort of artificial deadline. I'm a little concerned on that one. I guess it would be better if Jaedong loses (which he currently is )

Here's what my to-do list looks like at the moment:

• Set up SHOPPING system
  • Add switch condition to error msgs & item triggers.
  • Separate set of triggers for each store.
  • Requirement conditions.
• Finish first boss encounter
  • Ending cinematic.
  • Prize give.
• Plan opening cinematic
  
• Options menu
  • EUD detection, toggle
  • Cinematics on/off.
• Items
  • Conditions for unlocking
  • Quantity tracking
  • Item actions
  • Quantity upgrades

Sigh, that's all I have for this post. I'm going to take some snapshots of my terrain and put them up later today, so if terrain is your thing, check back for an update later. Oh, and Jaedong looks like he's going to lose this game. Arghhhhhh.

-q

EDIT:
First, a snapshot of the area where you start. The town is extremely compact by design.


The second thing is a pic of the raw terrain for a quarry/canyon. I'm going to be adding some buildings and units to it later to make it into a more populated area.


Oh, and I forgot to mention that I've scrapped the story with only a vague idea of where I'm going to go instead.

Please add an option to swap y with z for e.g. German keyboards.

That is some really awesome terrain; for me terrain is probably going to be the weak point in my map, since me and Lethal are both terrible at it. I agree, the deadline seemed like a good time frame but I'm not even close to 1/6 done either, and a year seems way short now; but I'll get most of my work done over the summer.

I'm impressed with what I've seen so far, can't wait for the final product.

And while I'd love for who you're routing for to win, I'm glad that he lost

Quote from qPirateKing

Jaedong is down 2-1. Oh, and I forgot to mention that I've scrapped the story with only a vague idea of where I'm going to go instead.

EDIT2: Jaedong won. But, since I'm so pleased, I will devote more time to mapping. Yay!

Dammit use spoiler tags or something :/