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Waypoint casting system, Not to be confused with the rally point system

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Creator: Lethal_Illusion
Time: Jan 10 2009, 3:48 am

Post #1     Lethal_Illusion Jan 10 2009, 3:48 am

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Background Information:
This is a simple, yet very effective test map. It allows a player to easily cast a projectile to a point of his/her choosing. A few people separately thought it up (including myself, Kaias, and qPirateKing), but no one ever really made the system.

How to Cast:
1) Select both wraiths (you will have to use multi-select because there is one wraith on top and one on the bottom of the map)
2) Hotkey (it'll make life easier)
3) Hold shift while ordering the unit to move to a spot
4) ???????
5) Profit!

The Concept:
The concept is centered on Starcraft's waypoint system. For those of you who don't know, the waypoint system is essentially a "to-do" list for units. When you order a unit while holding shift, it sets destinations/commands for that unit, which performs each in order. With that vital background information out of the way, let's discuss the map, shall we? The map consists of a high templar and two wraiths (ignore the burrowed units, they just save locations). When you shift+order the wraiths, two things will occur. First, since the top wraith is moving to the right when it is ordered, it will continue moving to the right (because of the waypoint system). The second wraith, however, having no previous command, immediately moves. The map detects when the bottom wraith moves, and, when it does, the top wraith (the one moving to the right) is teleported over the high templar (hero unit). Because it was teleported, its previous command (the command to the right) was canceled, and the wraith continues on towards the next destination (in this case, the point of the player's choosing). The map simply gives the wraith to a neutral player (so that the player cannot see and cannot control the wraith) and makes a simple effect.

Information on the Triggers:
For the sake of accuracy, I used inverted locations. When used properly, inverted locations are able to detect the pixel movement of a unit (ask for more information if it is necessary). I used two inverted locations: one for the wraith on the playing field (when you cast the spell) and one for the bottom wraith. I used the locations to detect when the bottom wraith moved and when the wraith on the playing field stopped.

Closing Remarks:
This was a relatively simple test map, so there are still some bugs. The main problem with the system so far is the movement of the projectile wraith. If the player shift+orders the wraith to the right of the high templar, the projectile wraith will swerve while turning around. Also, the wraith occassionally will not move to its destination (I'm pretty sure there are ways to prevent this). Anything unclear? Any questions or comments? Post in the thread.
Attachments:
scm file
Fireball Test.scm (41.22 kb)
69 hits.

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Post #2     Kaias Jan 10 2009, 3:51 am

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It can be slightly annoying at first but once you get a feel for it, it's not at all bad. Many maps could benefit from using this.

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Post #3     Biophysicist Jan 10 2009, 3:57 am

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Your average Bnetter would probably have trouble with this and leave. "wats hot kee" "y i need 2 click 2 wraths" "omg i cant click both of them" "wats shift clik" "it not work lol this map gay like ur momz cock" and so on. Amirite?

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Post #4     Morphling Jan 10 2009, 4:01 am

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Quote from TassadarZeratul
Your average Bnetter would probably have trouble with this and leave. "wats hot kee" "y i need 2 click 2 wraths" "omg i cant click both of them" "wats shift clik" "it not work lol this map gay like ur momz cock" and so on. Amirite?
Most likely, but it is a simple, cool map.

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Post #5     Demented Shaman Jan 10 2009, 4:01 am

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Quote from TassadarZeratul
Your average Bnetter would probably have trouble with this and leave. "wats hot kee" "y i need 2 click 2 wraths" "omg i cant click both of them" "wats shift clik" "it not work lol this map gay like ur momz cock" and so on. Amirite?
I think maps that try to implement this should have mandatory tutorials that cannot be skipped that clearly show how to use the system so the players are forced to watch it.

Also a replayable tutorial that each individual can choose to view at any time after the first one in case they didn't understand the first one.

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Post #6     SelfPossessed Jan 10 2009, 11:27 pm

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It took you long enough Lethal!

I'm surprised more people aren't taking a look at this. It's a simple yet powerful concept. If this was discovered half a year or so back, I would've finished a pvp shooter by now.

Fun note. Because of its nature, you can even cast up to 11 instances of the same spell simultaneously. Imagine spamming the screen with 11 fireballs. You do have to ensure that the air units don't overlap (make delays between each move and such) so you can keep track of each individual one though.

It may also be useful to use cloaked stacked scourges instead of wraiths as they won't displace if other air units are nearby. They also move a bit faster. Scourges appear to swerve a lot though.

Finally, the one biggest hurdle that this system has is the potential loss of hotkeys. Say hotkey 1 is your hero unit and hotkey 2 is your wraiths. I press hotkey 2, shoot some wraith, hotkey 1 to control my hero, then hotkey 2 again BEFORE the wraith finishes moving. If I do it fast enough, I will lose the wraiths for hotkey 2. This can cause problems.

Despite its weaknesses, it's still a simple yet powerful directional concept. For the majority of mappers, this is a great alternative when you cannot use Dark Swarm/Disruption Web/Halluc/MC/etc. targetting systems for map specific reasons, or do not wish to trigger the monster that is FRAGs (Coordinate Grid PLUS slope and intersection triggers).

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Post #7     Biophysicist Jan 10 2009, 11:30 pm

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But isn't there a delay between casting and the spell going off?

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Post #8     SelfPossessed Jan 10 2009, 11:33 pm

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What do you mean? It uses inverted locations, so it's pretty damn fast. In addition, because of how waypoints work, the Wraith/Scourge when moved are ALREADY at maximum speed; they do not need to accelerate.

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Post #9     Pigy_G Jan 11 2009, 3:52 am

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I was using this... Thanks for making it known, now I have nothing new, you told me you weren't gonna post this.

Ah well.

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Post #10     Biophysicist Jan 11 2009, 3:54 am

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Quote from SelfPossessed
What do you mean? It uses inverted locations, so it's pretty damn fast. In addition, because of how waypoints work, the Wraith/Scourge when moved are ALREADY at maximum speed; they do not need to accelerate.
They still have to fly to wherever the player clicked, which takes time.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Post #11     SelfPossessed Jan 11 2009, 4:04 am

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They do have to fly there, but it's still a very useful directional casting system if you do not have Disruption Web or Dark Swarm and the like to use. Compare this to say your Overlord that dropped one of four units, which then mobile gridded an attack in 4 different directions. Which is superior?

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Post #12     HCM™stickynote Jan 11 2009, 4:36 am

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This is SO COOL!!! I spent the last 3 days trying to come up with a way to aim the spells for my map.

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Post #13     Lethal_Illusion Jan 11 2009, 6:11 am

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Quote from [Pigy_G]:]
I was using this... Thanks for making it known, now I have nothing new, you told me you weren't gonna post this.

Ah well.
I told you from the get go that a few people were already using the system and that I would be posting it on SEN soon. Even if other people are already using it, there's no reason you can't use it.

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Post #14     HCM™stickynote Jan 11 2009, 6:50 pm

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Not to be confused with the rally point system

What is the rally point system? Is that the one tux made with the starport?

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Post #15     Lethal_Illusion Jan 11 2009, 8:15 pm

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Quote from stickynote
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Not to be confused with the rally point system

What is the rally point system? Is that the one tux made with the starport?
Yeah. The systems are somewhat similar, and perhaps easily confused.

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Post #16     Falkoner Jan 11 2009, 10:52 pm

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Fun note. Because of its nature, you can even cast up to 11 instances of the same spell simultaneously. Imagine spamming the screen with 11 fireballs. You do have to ensure that the air units don't overlap (make delays between each move and such) so you can keep track of each individual one though.

Actually not true, as each time the wraith is moved, one of its orders is removed, not to mention the shift clicking is detected before you can get even 3 clicks off.

http://FalksZone.zxq.net - StarCraft 1 Basic Tutorials and Programs
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Post #17     Lethal_Illusion Jan 12 2009, 1:14 am

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Quote from Falkoner
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Fun note. Because of its nature, you can even cast up to 11 instances of the same spell simultaneously. Imagine spamming the screen with 11 fireballs. You do have to ensure that the air units don't overlap (make delays between each move and such) so you can keep track of each individual one though.

Actually not true, as each time the wraith is moved, one of its orders is removed, not to mention the shift clicking is detected before you can get even 3 clicks off.
He's saying that you can have ten wraiths in storage, have one moving to the right (the top wraith), and have one detect the movement (the bottom wraith). After the first wraith is launched, move one from storage to the top and restart the cycle.

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Post #18     Rantent Jan 12 2009, 1:50 am

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Next somebody'll think up the normal move spell system. You select a unit, move it, and it moves to where you clicked. You can even change it's direction after it's been cast!

It's a good system though, but not quite speedy enough..

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Post #19     payne Jan 13 2009, 9:13 pm

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May I add IMPORTANT infos about Lethal's basic idea?
I've been trying (near perfectly) to implement this system for my d2 project and I found some things that are seriously important (Lethal, please fix the infos at the top):

1) do NOT use an air-unit that can attack as the moving one (the one at the top, you know?). If ever you shift+click directly on an enemy unit, the unit teleported of the caster will stop and attack physically the aimed unit. You may want to use Scourges, Valkyries, Ovies and Observers to vary the speed (if ever you do not have any air unit in your map).
2) do NOT use 2 units that cannot attack a ground unit because you'll get an annoying error message each time you'll directly click on an enemy unit.
3) it's not obligated to have the non-moving unit at the bottom and the one moving at the top, you can put them anywhere as long as they aren't too near to each other at any time!
4) if someone does multiple shift+click, the unit moved over the caster will only execute the first click (and the others if you do not removes it once it has stopped), BUT the non-moving one (which is used to detect if you've clicked somewhere) WILL move out of his area so you may need to move it back again to it initial location.
5) do NOT give the unit to the neutral player (P12) because it will screw up when someone will leave. You'll have to use the players 9, 10 and 11. (I haven't though up of a way of doing it for more than 3 players so far).


I may have forgotten some points, but meh, I think that's enough ;P

EDIT: Oh! I think I didn't mention the fact that more the path that your patrolling unit follows is long, less you get chances of having a cast missed. I haven't tried to find a way of avoiding this yet.

EDIT: Also, you might want to know that the fact of making the unit move to the right and then gets teleported at the left creates less errors than re-ordering the unit to the left once it reached the right side.
I also had forgotten to tell an other known glitch: When you cast at the left of your actual position, since the patrolling unit is actually moving to the right, it'll kind of spin around moving to the right and then turning to the left (kind of like if you would throw it). No fixes known so far.
This post was edited 2 times, last edit by payne: Jan 15 2009, 12:11 am.

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Post #20     ws-Impeached Jan 14 2009, 5:16 pm

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Someone needs to tell this man that he's a geinus.
This post was edited 1 time, last edit by Impeached: Jan 14 2009, 5:36 pm.

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