When you say "they don't all believe that" that could easily mean that a handful don't. Case in point, at least 80% of all members of organized religion DO believe that.

That must mean they're all guilty.

And this 'at least 80%' is unbased, I personally can't be the judge of that because I don't what Hinduism Islam or Buddhism teach on that matter. I believe Hinduism teaches reincarnation reflecting your actions regardless of whether you believe or not.

Every. Single. Mormon. I have ever known. Believes that.

Along with a bunch of Christians I know, a few Catholics (they all say their religion sucks anyways, lol) and even a few Pentecostals.

As Marine said, maybe not ALL of them believe it, but a very large percentage: Does.

In the LDS Church hell isn't even an option. They believe that you're judged according to your understanding and knowledge- if you never had that then you can't be judged for what you don't know.

You dont need an article from Times Magazine to know that a very large percentage believe that. You can tell from their interactions towards their religions. It is quite obvious..


So that is one religion, apart of the smaller 20% of the group that does not believe they will go to hell if they do not do what they're told to believe.

Uh, dude you don't know what you're talking about.

Purgatory = Hell in LDS (I was brought up as a Mormon, mind you) and they believe in the Celestial, Telesital, etc.. kingdoms and you can 'become a god' of your own planet.

And where are you getting your information from? You're completely wrong about everything you've claimed in that comment I've quoted.

Mormons believe in heaven and hell just like other Christians and they judge just like other religions do, and they 'judge you in the afterlife' depending on how well you followed the church.

Please step away until you find out actual truth about what you're talking about please?

Because they're DIFFERENT GODS. Yahweh, God, and Allah are all the same god. Brahma is not. Kay?

You're Kellimus. I'm Syphon. We're not different people because we're not personified the same way, we're different people because we're different people. Harry Potter is not Solid Snake. Link is not Dr. Manhattan. Brahma is not Allah.



Stop being ignorant, please. Please.

All religions do NOT tech the same thing. And it is especially not that. Some religions do not even have gods. (eg, Buddhism.)

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 26 2009, 3:43 am by Syphon. Reason: fixing typo

You're right, I don't know what I'm talking about- especially since I am a mormon. You cannot go to 'Hell' the lowest you can merit is the telestial, which is better than earth life. And you don't have to be Mormon to 'not go to hell'. Like I said, "They believe that you're judged according to your understanding and knowledge- if you never had that then you can't be judged for what you don't know."

I'm not wrong about anything I've "claimed" LDS believe.

Who says Buddhism is a religion? Its more of a philosophy like Confucianism if you truly think about it. Just because it has a mass following does not make it a religion.

And how am I being ignorant by bringing up a good point about how all religions teach almost the same thing when it comes to God, they just throw different ideals/ideology on who's god is 'the right god/only god'?

Uh, you just destroyed your own argument with this Syphon: "Yahweh, God, and Allah are all the same God. Brahma is not. Kay"

Okay. How so? Yahweh, God, and Allah are all 'creators'.. Brahma is a 'creator' so essentially they are the same thing: Creators a.k.a. GOD

Again, as it seems I must say this every time you decide to call me ignorant/stupid/retarded/etc... Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I may be wrong this time, but if you think about it how am I wrong in saying all gods are the same, just with different names/personifications??

You even said it yourself with this sentence: "Yahweh, God, and Allah are all the same God."

Oh, maybe its because if its not a Semitic God, its not 'the real god'

Which honestly, that's what you're making yourself out to be claiming, Syphon.

Yahweh, God, Allah, Brahma, they're all the same entities with just different names. They are all CREATORS.

So just because Brahma (again, the Hinduism personification of A CREATOR) is not a Semitic God, he is not a Creator? That is basically what you've stated.

Telestial includes Pergatory which is HELL.

Me? I know exactly what I am talking about. Mormans DO believe in hell and heaven just not in the same god damn terms as cristians or catholics or jews or anyone else. Everyone has their own view of hell and heaven, even atheists.

You're misrepresenting my posts as claiming they are not a god unless they are God. I tried to avoid this by using other names of the Abrhamaic god in my post, because I knew you'd do this. It's an inherent flaw with the heavily Christian influenced English language, that our word for one specific god is the same as a creator god. (And some blame falls on me, because I miscapitalised one of the gods, where you said I destroyed my own argument ["Yahweh, God, and Allah are all the same God. Brahma is not. Kay? " should have been "Yahweh, God, and Allah are all the same god. Brahma is not. Kay? "], which you apparently do not understand.) Allow me to clarify; I am not disclaiming the Hindu Brahma as a creator god. I'm simply saying that it is not the same creator god, God, as that in the Semitic religions. And to be honest, I never claimed any of them are real. (Which is also why most of my examples where fictional characters.)

They are not the same entity with different names. Yahweh, God, and Allah are the same entity with different names. Brahma is a different entity with a different name. Yes, they all fill the same role as creator within their respective religions.

That last sentence is basically just trying to digress this argument and twisting my words, because I never stated anything to that effect.

Also, on Buddhism. It is a religion. And so is Confucianism. A religion is a set of philosophies. Not the belief in a/many god.

re⋅li⋅gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

And yes, tragically, things like Rastafarianism and Scientology are also religions.

Some Hindus do not believe Brahma created the universe. some believe that the universe just came out of the void and with the void came Brahma and some other stuff. There is also the egg story that there was a powerful being in the egg and the universe was created. Hinduism is a very complicated religion that varies from people to people.

Ad Hominem isn't the way to debate, good sir.

And if you agree they all fill the same role as creator, why are you saying they're not the same entity when they are a creator entity?

The Void = Brahman in most cases. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva stem from Brahman.

In respect, all creator gods are essentially the exact same thing, just under the terms and beliefs of different religions put them seperate as their own 'creator god'. Despite all the names and looks, it is exactly the same thing.

All religions believe in a hell and heaven, just like i said in their own terms. Cristians view hell as a pit of dead souls and fire and demons, and the Devil on his grand throne. Catholics view a little differently, but it is essentially the same thing. Same with jews, hindews, muslims, buddhists, and other religions. What you guys don't understand is what I have been trying to say this entire time. Heaven is your own salvation, no one elses. Hell is your worst fear, no one elses. No matter what you believe, your heaven is your true faith, and your hell is your worst fear.

Atheists might not believe in anything, but they are their own religion. They have a hell and heaven, just no God or Devil. That is what sperates Atheism from organized religion (others anyway). Atheists believe in reincarnation (or a few anyway) but no god to do it. That is their heaven; to be reincarnated into e new body and life. If they fear death and nothing after death, that is their hell. Death. Blackness. Dieing.

All religions are in their own way connected and the same. Over time and through people they have all morphed into their own 'seperate' group. Really, it is not true that a religion is any different than another. Over time, the shape and look of the God(s) or deities, the ways to worship, the views of the people, its all been morphed from every other religion, and a base of one. Neanderthals realized this. They had no organized religion but through their sites we have found they buried their dead, which is an indication of some sort of afterlife.

Think about it. You have two complete opposite religions, right? Well lets look at it this way... They both have one God, or 'creator' that made their world. Hmm.. not so different. They both have a heaven and hell.. HMM NOT SO DIFFERENT AGAIN. they both have morals, values, and commandments. Wow, these two are really looking similar aren't they? The only difference is this: The WAY they shape their God, the WAY they describe their heaven and hell, and the WAY they wrote their commandments. The only thing truely seperating these two, is their faith, or 'way of believing/worshipping', and the amount of people following their faith. That is one of my philosophies on all religions of the world.

In my Atheism I don't think there is a heaven or hell or reincarnation. I am just gonna rot when I die

Then that is your own personal heaven. If thats what you believe is what will come of you then that is all that will happen. Your hell is to have there be anything else if rotting and dieing is what you want.

I wouldn't call it heaven? It seems more like a neutral stance to me? If theres something else besides rotting and dieing, it doesn't have to be hell.