Also uh... how was an army in Budapest able to support a move from Serbia into Bulgaria? Budapest does not border Bulgaria.

I call Shenanigans!
That's it, I'm building an artillery unit in paris.

So if there is no resolution phase, go to baby making phase?

Builds are after Fall turns.

Heh. For some reason I thought the supporting country hadf to border the country that the unit was at before moving. LOL.

ON TO DIPLOMATIC AND ORDER PHASE FOR FALL!!!!

'The province to which a unit is providing support must be one to which the the unit could have legally moved during that turn.'

From the rulebook. You could interpret it two ways: Either Budapest has to border Serbia, or it has to border Bulgaria. I interpretted it to mean it has to border Serbia, because the unit to which I'm providing support is actually in Serbia until AFTER the support is given.

So... shouldn't we know which of the armies was disbanded and what the current locations of the armies are before we send orders?

In case my argument didn't persuade you, I use the army at Greece to support the invasion, instead of Budapest. And, of course, I don't enter the Aegean sea.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 19 2009, 11:31 pm by Centreri.

As I read from the rules, to support an attack that other country MUST DIRECTLY BORDER the country you're attacking. Defense, you can send a support order to the country BEING attacked.

I do believe thats a standoff, Moose has a good point.

When I read it the first time, I initially thought the same, that the army has to be able to reach the other army's source location. I think it was only until I deeply analyzed the examples I figured it out otherwise. I support Cent's order change.

As gamemaster, I have decided that:

1. Centreri's original moves shall be used, no special allowance will be given.
2. Centreri's support move is illegal since I have interpreted the rules to mean that an army giving support must border the country to wich support will be given during what would otherwise be a standoff.
3. Since Centreri's move is illegal, it is a stand-off.
4. The map stays as is, except the army Bulgaria does not need to retreat/disband.

Continue the game.

Centreri, I'll show you a problem with your interpretation of support with an example:

1 2 3

1 cannot receive support 3 because it is not connected to 3 and vice versa. It's problematic when a country in the center is impossible to displace from two opposite but not connected sides. ;o

Wait, so cent's move is valid?

I also have a question regarding something for you moose.

I understand it Moose, and it made more sense while I was considering which one the support meant. However, it was worded in such a way (and the examples worked that way too) that my version is plausible, and the logic behind it is further supported by the implementation of the defensive support feature, where an army has to basically move to another area and back without wasting a turn.

Bad gamemaster is bad. In order to annoy you (and, on the off-chance you actually can't provide one, to (admittedly, probably ineffectively) demand a redraw), I demand an explanation as to what in the wording makes my interpretation wrong.

See, I can do it here too .

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2009, 12:32 pm by Centreri.

Considering even a of st thought the same...

Diplo Game I: The learning experience?

Since A(s,t) has set such nasty conditions for me because of the misunderstanding, I must obviously continue the argument as to whether his version is correct or not. Prove it!

I'd actually asked A(s,t) in my order post whether the attack order was legal, and because of HIM not understanding it, he moved everything incorrectly, and now look where I'm stuck. Jackass.

No no no. Two armies can never exchange places. Also, if they were moving to an area and back, an attack with one support would displace them, where displacing mutually supported territory would need an attack with two supports.


What he did follows the rules for failed orders. Even if it took time to correct it, that's what should have happened. If a season or full year had elapsed, I would agree with you, but that isn't the case.


My version of the rules .PDF says "one to which the supporting unit could have legally moved during that turn.".
Are you using the right version?

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2009, 1:00 pm by Theodore Roosevelt.

If a of st gave him wrong informations, Cent shouldn't be punished for it.

I see what you're saying, but in a defensive movement, logically, in order to actually defend a location, supporters move TO the defended area while the attack comes and than go back. Support logic doesn't follow those basic rules, because if it did supports would themselves be illegal.


Moose... when the gamemaster himself fails this badly and makes a mistake like this, I don't think it's particularly fair to punish me like that.
Well, I mis-typed it, but unit giving support and supporting unit are the same thing. The point was that Budapest was giving support to Serbia, to which it COULD'VE moved during that turn, to attack Bulgaria. That, at least, was my interpretation of it, and the wording doesn't disprove it.

A(s,t), set a damn date by which the orders are due. I don't want you getting 5 orders by evening while I'm waiting for a response from you on this matter and my orders being discounted. I would've sent you them, just in case, but oh noes, you can only send one batch of orders...

So, Centreri, should I get my St. Petersburg army back? It was purely A of s T's fault it was there.

unrelated.

Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss a clause somewhere that simply creates armies out of thin air? Do you have any argument at all except 'It was there'? You can't even come up with an argument from the rulebook which was given to us as official rules for why my interpretation is incorrect. Your 'problem' was miscounting. Mine is a (possible) misinterpretation, which, because shared by the gamemaster, seems an unfair thing to be punished for, especially when instead of invalidating a whole sixth months of the game (and two weeks of waiting, I believe) the gamemaster could easily correct my move. I ASKED the gamemaster if the move was valid, for god's sake.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2009, 9:51 pm by Centreri.