Staredit Network > Forums > Serious Discussion > Topic: Obama or McCain?
Obama or McCain?
This topic is locked. You can no longer write replies here.
Jul 4 2008, 6:22 am
By: MillenniumArmy
Pages: < 1 « 15 16 17 18 1937 >
 
Polls
Who would you pick?
Who would you pick?
Answer Votes Percentage % Voters
Obama 100
 
80%
None.
McCain 26
 
21%
None.
Please login to vote.
Poll has 126 votes. You can vote for at most 1 option(s).

Oct 1 2008, 8:18 pm Centreri Post #321

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
no. Believe what you want, but we have a thing called separation of church and state.
There's also a thing called intelligence. Someone who literally believes the bible doesn't have it.

Quote
If by that you mean simply believing that nuclear Iran is dangerous to whole world, Russia's invading Georgia unprovoked is unacceptable, not wanting a new Cold War with Russia, not wanting to go to war over Georgia but rather pressure Russia, keeping the option to go into Pakistan to go after terrorists open, and focusing on fighting Al-Qaeda terrorists, then not necessarily. Besides, if she really does turn nuts and wants to declare war on such things, Congress wouldn't allow for another unnecessary war based on our current reasoning alone.
So your only argument is that congress will be there to hold her hand. Isn't it sad that she needs that backup? And the best response would be to give me Obama parallels to this. Palin MIGHT be unstable, but I haven't seen anything to think that Obama or Biden are.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 10:02 pm by Centreri.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 10:11 pm MillenniumArmy Post #322



Quote
There's also a thing called intelligence. Someone who literally believes the bible doesn't have it.
Intelligence and literally believing the bible are two unrelated things. Prove to me from an unbiased and reliable study and source such a relation between the two exists. And remember we're talking about intelligence here as in her capability of leading the country. Simply believing that the world was created in 6 days or not believing in evolution will not affect her stances on foreign/domestic policy, economics, homeland security, social issues, etc.

However I can see where you're coming if it is that people start using whatever they believe about the Bible to preach or express their thoughts particularly over subjects like science or politics. Then something is wrong. A mighty fine example of this would be Barack Obama's Trinity Church Pastor.
Quote
So your only argument is that congress will be there to hold her hand. Isn't it sad that she needs that backup?
No.. that's not my argument. I'm only saying that if she somehow turns haywire, as many people claim she might, it's not like we're doomed to do everything she wants us to; just reminding everyone that there's a checks and balance. I could say the same thing for just about... anyone. There's always a possibility that candidates can go corrupt or something once they've taken a hold of office.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 10:27 pm by MillenniumArmy.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 10:30 pm Centreri Post #323

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
No.. that's not my argument. I'm only saying that if she somehow turns haywire, as many people claim she might, it's not like we're doomed to do everything she wants us to; just reminding everyone that there's a checks and balance. I could say the same thing for just about... anyone. There's always a possibility that candidates can go corrupt or something once they've taken a hold of office.
Congress and the other 'checks and balances' will stop a nuclear war, but they won't stop a great decline in US power. If McCain dies, Palin becomes president. She has very little financial, foreign, security or, really, any other qualifications. The US's image will really be screwed if she becomes president. Other countries will look at the US and its president, who can't hold her own against the media, who literally believes in the bible, who's 'just like us!' to the stupider portion of the US. Do you want Palin representing the US?
Quote
Intelligence and literally believing the bible are two unrelated things, prove to me from an unbiased and reliable study and source showing such a relation between the two. However I can see where you're coming if it is that people start using whatever they believe about the Bible to preach or express their thoughts particularly over subjects like science or politics. Then something is wrong. A mighty fine example of this would be Barack Obama's Trinity Church Pastor.
Not proof, but what about this: An intelligent person would question things, right? One of the signs of intelligence? What kind of person would question their faith and believe something like that so literally? Also, here's the IQ/Theistic stuff I found:
Quote from In">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence]In 2006, a self-published non-peer review study was undertaken[3] to investigate, on a country-by-country level, the possibility of a link between the importance of religion to citizens and their average IQ. The study found that the strength of religious belief in countries was inversely related to their average IQ. The countries with higher IQs on average had significantly lower levels of religious belief than those with lower average IQs. The study has subsequently drawn criticism[citation needed] for neglecting the influence of several critical confounding factors, such as the work of religious institutions in deliberately focusing missionary work in third world countries where educational opportunities are concurrently poor.
In 2007, Danish newspapers reported that a single study conducted by controversial intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg estimated that "non-believers'" (i.e atheist, agnostics, and non religions) IQs were on average nearly 6 points higher than believers'.[4] The study is based on data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor. [5]
In June 2008, the British online newspapers DailyMail.co.uk[6] and Telegraph.co.uk[7] had articles on a new study performed by Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, where Lynn found intelligent people less likely to believe in God. The study, published in the scientific journal Intelligence on June 24th 2008, compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries. [8] The conclusion made by the retired professor, though branded "simplistic" by critics, is that religious belief had declined across the 137 nations in the 20th century at the same time as people became more intelligent. "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God," Lynn said to Telegraph.co.uk [7].
I'm not saying that IQ completely equals intelligence, but it's the only intelligence factor I really know of.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 10:38 pm by Centreri.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 10:43 pm MillenniumArmy Post #324



Quote
Congress and the other 'checks and balances' will stop a nuclear war, but they won't stop a great decline in US power. If McCain dies, Palin becomes president. She has very little financial, foreign, security or, really, any other qualifications. The US's image will really be screwed if she becomes president. Other countries will look at the US and its president, who can't hold her own against the media, who literally believes in the bible, who's 'just like us!' to the stupider portion of the US. Do you want Palin representing the US?
Oh, now that's a different issue altogether... But I wont deny that I agree with what you're saying.

Just curious, but why do people always assume that if McCain wins he's going to die and then Palin will take over? I've seen people live way past their 80s or even 90s.
Quote
Not proof, but what about this: An intelligent person would question things, right? One of the signs of intelligence? What kind of person would question their faith and believe something like that so literally?
Intelligence is a very broad term. When it comes to running for President/VP, I evaluate their capability in handling our nation's foreign/domestic policy, economics, homeland security, social issues, etc. Will he or she take us out of this economic crisis? Will he or she raise or lower my taxes? What about the war in Iraq? Russia? Georgia? Knowing how to handle your personality is also a huge factor. This is the intelligence I'm looking for. "Intelligence" regarding the Bible plays no role in gauging one's intelligence of leading a country.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 11:10 pm by MillenniumArmy.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 10:51 pm Centreri Post #325

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
Just curious, but why do people always assume that if McCain wins he's going to die and then Palin will take over? I've seen people live way past their 80s or even 90s.
You don't base things like national security on most likely. Many people live into 80's and 90's (I knew a woman who lived until I think 97..), but many die much earlier, too. McCain's had health problems before, and the chance of him dying is high enough to worry about.

Quote
Intelligence is a very broad term. When it comes to running for President/VP, I evaluate their capability in handling our nation's foreign/domestic policy, economics, homeland security, social issues, etc. Will he or she take us out of this economic crisis? Will he or she raise or lower my taxes? What about the war in Iraq? Russia? Georgia? Knowing how to handle your personality is also a huge factor. This is the intelligence I'm looking for. "Intelligence" regarding the Bible plays no role in gauging one's intelligence of leading a country.
The bible itself has no relationship with the state, yes. However, I believe, and this has been shown by research, that those who literally believe the bible have a generally lower IQ then those who don't. On some level, that relates to intelligence. Americans have a lower IQ then Europeans, things like that. They show through. That effects how a person deals under stress, how they portray themselves to the world, etc.

And, really, what in Palin have you seen that attracts her in 'the issues'? Or even McCain? Though, McCain's on a whole other level then Palin. I'm so fiercely anti-McCain because of Palin, really. He's intelligent. Though he picked Palin.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 10:56 pm by Centreri.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 10:57 pm MillenniumArmy Post #326



Quote
And, really, what in Palin have you seen that attracts her in 'the issues'? Or even McCain? Though, McCain's on a whole other level then Palin. I'm so fiercely anti-McCain because of Palin, really. He's intelligent. Though he picked Palin.
Well you see I'm about to ask myself these exact same questions for both parties. I know only a little bit about each person, but not enough to make me want to vote for them and was hoping that the mainstream media would provide me some thoughtful insight. Which is why I'm still indecisive. During the next several days I am hoping to watch the presidential and VP debates. I believe this is where they will show their true colors.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:08 pm Centreri Post #327

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
But I wont deny that I disagree with what you're saying.
Elaborate? What do you disagree with?

Enjoy the debates. I watched the first one and will watch the VP one, but the presidential debate wasn't really a debate. It was answering of questions with allowances to interrupt your opponent. I don't expect much from the Presidential debates, but the VP ones can be interesting.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:09 pm MillenniumArmy Post #328



oops typo

It was actually a pity that I missed the first presidential debate. I am really looking forward to the VP debate though. The thing is my friends are so politically apathetic, I'd always be watching the news or something but they'd be watching things like Hannah Montanna, Big Bang theory, House or all those useless shows (but then I do watch sports and food network alot xD.) I don't really have anyone in real life to compare or discuss my political views with xP



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:20 pm Kaias Post #329



Quote from Centreri
that those who literally believe the bible have a generally lower IQ then those who don't.
Generalities don't matter here, only instances.
You can't reasonably judge someone's intelligence based on their belief in the Bible, especially not on a comparative average of such a huge populace (and especially a populace so immense you can't possible hope to get an accurate representation).

Ultimately, I don't think she is unintelligent, but rather inexperienced. Inexperienced in this whole game that everyone else at her level has been playing for so long, she must be pretty shaken.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:24 pm Centreri Post #330

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
Generalities don't matter here, only instances.
You can't reasonably judge someone's intelligence based on their belief in the Bible, especially not on a comparative average of such a huge populace (and especially a populace so immense you can't possible hope to get an accurate representation).

Ultimately, I don't think she is unintelligent, but rather inexperienced. Inexperienced in this whole game that everyone else at her level has been playing for so long, she must be pretty shaken.
Sadly, instance intelligence differs by perception. I think she's an idiot for thinking that being next to Russia gives her foreign policy experience or for saying that she 'might have to declare war on Russia' over something like Georgia. This is also supported by a generality which I rather like. The way I see it, she inexperienced and unintelligent.
Quote
It was actually a pity that I missed the first presidential debate. I am really looking forward to the VP debate though. The thing is my friends are so politically apathetic, I'd always be watching the news or something but they'd be watching things like Hannah Montanna, Big Bang theory, House or all those useless shows (but then I do watch sports and food network alot xD.) I don't really have anyone in real life to compare or discuss my political views with xP
Eh. I had a friend last year who was epic at current events - you could ask him about anything. Sadly, I only saw him once this year. Different classes. And just when I got better, too. He was actually for Hillary rather then Obama, which was weird.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:32 pm Kaias Post #331



Quote from Centreri
Sadly, instance intelligence differs by perception.
And generalities don't? I'm sorry but, you belong to several classifications that have generally lower IQ's and accordingly so do you.
Quote
This is also supported by a generality which I rather like.
Of course you do.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:34 pm Centreri Post #332

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
And generalities don't? I'm sorry but, you belong to several classifications that have generally lower IQ's and accordingly so do you.
Generalities don't. Generalities aren't guaranteed accurate. They're general about a given group. They're statistics. Statistics don't differ by perception.
Quote
Of course you do.
Someone sounds bitter. You want me to lie?



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:44 pm Kaias Post #333



Quote from Centreri
Quote
And generalities don't? I'm sorry but, you belong to several classifications that have generally lower IQ's and accordingly so do you.
Generalities don't. Generalities aren't guaranteed accurate. They're general about a given group. They're statistics. Statistics don't differ by perception.
Except that your use of this 'generality' is basis for your perception that those with lower IQ scores are less intelligent. Intelligence itself is purely subjective.
Quote from Centreri
Quote
Of course you do.
Someone sounds bitter. You want me to lie?
No, I'm merely amused that you put value specifically where it's convenient.



None.

Oct 1 2008, 11:49 pm Centreri Post #334

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
Except that your use of this 'generality' is basis for your perception that those with lower IQ scores are less intelligent. Intelligence itself is purely subjective.
My use of this generality was restricted to MA's desire to see a correlation between IQ and believing what the bible says. I stated why I believe that Palin's an idiot. You've yet to refute it. I don't even understand why you're arguing against me.
Quote
No, I'm merely amused that you put value specifically where it's convenient.
I'm sure people argue for the opponent all the time wherever you live.



None.

Oct 2 2008, 12:00 am Falkoner Post #335



Quote
My use of this generality was restricted to MA's desire to see a correlation between IQ and believing what the bible says. I stated why I believe that Palin's an idiot. You've yet to refute it. I don't even understand why you're arguing against me.

He has completed refuted it, your arguments are silly, using the same method, I could infer that Obama is stupid, because the majority of Black people have a lower IQ than most. Generally is not what we are talking about here, we are talking about a single person.

Quote
I'm sure people argue for the opponent all the time wherever you live.

No, but they provide a solid argument against them, rather than making their side look better by hiding certain key facts.



None.

Oct 2 2008, 12:02 am Kaias Post #336



Quote from Centreri
Quote
Except that your use of this 'generality' is basis for your perception that those with lower IQ scores are less intelligent. Intelligence itself is purely subjective.
My use of this generality was restricted to MA's desire to see a correlation between IQ and believing what the bible says.
That is simply not true,
Quote from Centreri
This is also supported by a generality which I rather like.
You said that it supported your belief that she was idiotic and unintelligent.

Quote
I stated why I believe that Palin's an idiot. You've yet to refute it. I don't even understand why you're arguing against me.
I haven't done adequate research into what you've said and I don't know the contexts. I'm arguing because I like the irony.

Quote from Centreri
Quote
No, I'm merely amused that you put value specifically where it's convenient.
I'm sure people argue for the opponent all the time wherever you live.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here.



None.

Oct 2 2008, 12:13 am Centreri Post #337

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
You said that it supported your belief that she was idiotic and unintelligent.
By definition, it supports it. 'To provide for or maintain' from thefreedictionary.com. Both my arguments, to my perception, and this generality support that Palin is stupid. Thus, the arguments support one another. I had given an argument for that she is stupid. Then I said that the generality says the same thing, ie supports it. What aren't you getting?

Quote
He has completed refuted it, your arguments are silly, using the same method, I could infer that Obama is stupid, because the majority of Black people have a lower IQ than most. Generally is not what we are talking about here, we are talking about a single person.
And again, you ignore that I had already given a valid argument, no, two valid arguments that say the same thing. Apply THOSE arguments to Obama and your comparison holds.
Quote
No, but they provide a solid argument against them, rather than making their side look better by hiding certain key facts.
Please, tell me what facts I have hidden.
Quote
I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
You said 'No, I'm merely amused that you put value specifically where it's convenient.'. In other words, you want me to put value where its not convenient, which is arguing for you, supporting your case.
Quote
I haven't done adequate research into what you've said and I don't know the contexts. I'm arguing because I like the irony.
So, 'for the heck of it'. That's fine.



None.

Oct 2 2008, 12:26 am Kaias Post #338



Quote from Centreri
Quote
You said that it supported your belief that she was idiotic and unintelligent.
By definition, it supports it. 'To provide for or maintain' from thefreedictionary.com. Both my arguments, to my perception, and this generality support that Palin is stupid. Thus, the arguments support one another. I had given an argument for that she is stupid. Then I said that the generality says the same thing, ie supports it. What aren't you getting?
You were using your perception of the fact to support your argument whereas you had said that your "use of this generality was restricted to MA's desire to see a correlation between IQ and believing what the bible says." which of course isn't true.

Quote
Quote
I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
You said 'No, I'm merely amused that you put value specifically where it's convenient.'. In other words, you want me to put value where its not convenient, which is arguing for you, supporting your case.
I won't deny valid opposition to my beliefs.



None.

Oct 2 2008, 12:38 am ClansAreForGays Post #339



lol, I love sen conservatives(MA,falk,kaias). They all some to 'notice' the topic when 1 liberal(here cent) is commenting, and team up on him. Dancing around his questions and really using the 3v1 to their advantage.
Now normally the liberal majority of sen would be firing back against the conservative nonsense and they would have to answer not only why McCain picked someone who is nothing more than a pretty face and doesn't believe in evolution, but they would also have to deal with all their other conservative baggage like bush.
The trick is they notice that cent is the only one bothering to reply to MA, meaning that the other liberals who would jump down their throats are away, and the time to look smart is now! Eventually Woa, cheeze, Krazy, SilentAlfa, rantent, or really everyone else educated on sen will notice, but as soon as they reply, the conservatives will fade back, until just 1 of us remains. The cycle repeats.

Just an observation.

I'd love to help ya cent, but if someone really doesn't see how not believing in evolution is a bad thing, they're too backwards to reason with.




Oct 2 2008, 12:55 am Kaias Post #340



Quote from ClansAreForGays
lol, I love sen conservatives(MA,falk,kaias). They all some to 'notice' the topic when 1 liberal(here cent) is commenting, and team up on him. Dancing around his questions and really using the 3v1 to their advantage.
Now normally the liberal majority of sen would be firing back against the conservative nonsense and they would have to answer not only why McCain picked someone who is nothing more than a pretty face and doesn't believe in evolution, but they would also have to deal with all their other conservative baggage like bush.
The trick is they notice that cent is the only one bothering to reply to MA, meaning that the other liberals who would jump down their throats are away, and the time to look smart is now! Eventually Woa, cheeze, Krazy, SilentAlfa, rantent, or really everyone else educated on sen will notice, but as soon as they reply, the conservatives will fade back, until just 1 of us remains. The cycle repeats.

Just an observation.

I'd love to help ya cent, but if someone really doesn't see how not believing in evolution is a bad thing, they're too backwards to reason with.
Hmm, teaming up? If you'll notice me and MA were posting at separate times. Falkoner posted once. Really all I have been concerned in is an arguement with Centreri.

I mostly work on my map when I have time rather than bothering to come in these forums. However, I'm sick, have been working on my map all morning and have been having some mappers 'block' and decided to poke around. I saw an flaw in Centreri's arguement and posted. Simple as that.


Quote
Now normally the liberal majority of sen would be firing back
Quote
the other liberals who would jump down their throats are away, and the time to look smart is now! Eventually Woa, cheeze, Krazy, SilentAlfa, rantent, or really everyone else educated on sen will notice
That sounds an awful lot what you are accusing me of.



None.

Options
Pages: < 1 « 15 16 17 18 1937 >
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[03:55 pm]
Zoan -- :wob:
[10:34 am]
NudeRaider -- SEN doesn't rely on spammers initiate its sleep cycle. It hat fully automated rest and clean-up phases. Please understand that this is necessary for the smooth operation of the site. Thank you.
[03:45 am]
Sylph-Of-Space -- Does the shoutbox get disabled when there's spammers?
[2024-5-17. : 6:47 am]
NudeRaider -- lil-Inferno
lil-Inferno shouted: nah
strong
[2024-5-17. : 5:41 am]
Ultraviolet -- 🤔 so inf is in you?
[2024-5-17. : 4:57 am]
O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- my name is mud
[2024-5-17. : 4:35 am]
Ultraviolet -- mud, meet my friend, the stick
[2024-5-16. : 10:07 pm]
lil-Inferno -- nah
[2024-5-16. : 8:36 pm]
Ultraviolet -- Inf, we've got a job for you. ASUS has been very naughty and we need our lil guy to go do their mom's to teach them if they fuck around, they gon' find out
[2024-5-16. : 5:25 pm]
NudeRaider -- there he is, right on time! Go UV! :D
Please log in to shout.