[/table]

Quote from Pigy_G

Good luck with the map.

Thanks

Quote from [lil-Inferno]:]

I REALLY, REALLy like the idea of the player deciding their own fate. I always loved having two decisions. It reminds me of GTA IV when you have the decision at the end to

Well, to be quite honest, it is a limited starcraft RPG, so you're not quite going to be deciding your own "fate" exactly, in the sense that certain things have to happen for the map to complete, but rather, how you get there and what happens along the way. And of course you will decide certain parts of the fate .
Oh, and in some cases there will be more than two choices.

The following are tables of coefficients of Damage/Minute/Cost, for the fully upgraded units.
N is the number of upgrades, Delta is the cost of the upgrade, and the base is the cost of upgrade 0, so for
N = 100, delta = 7, and base = 23, upgrade costs are
U(1) = 30, U(2) = 37, U(3) = 44 ect.

Now, these coefficients are calculated by the following:
Total Upgraded Damage * Attack Rate per Minute / Total Cost of Ups

Since the DT has the highest damage, I plan on having him have the lowest DMC coefficient, and since the archer has the lowest damage, he (and the fbat, since fbat loses 2x damage to armor) should have the highest DMC coefficient, with the Hydralisk in the middle.
Now, I need feedback on this: What would players like more? Should I give certain units more upgrades, change the cost of the upgrades, change the base damage of the units, ect? The current coefficients are as follows, and I know I need to change them:
DT: 1.3412
Hydra: 1.3833
Marine: 1.2780
Firebat: 1.3036

Right now, the hydra gets about 4% more bang for his buck than the DT, 11% more than the rine, and 8% more than the firebat.
My thoughts are the coefficients should be approximately so (marine and fbat use same ups so their coefficients have to be within a certain range of each other no matter what I do):
DT: 1.00
Hydra: 1.15
Marine: 1.30
Firebat: 1.33


Delta: 8
Base: 23
Delta = 8 from N = 100 to 120
N Marine Fbat Hydra DTemp
100 0.9757 0.9952 1.2197 1.1826
101 0.9748 0.9944 1.2185 1.1814
102 0.9558 0.9751 1.1947 1.1583
103 0.9549 0.9743 1.1936 1.1571
104 0.9366 0.9557 1.1708 1.1349
105 0.9358 0.9550 1.1697 1.1338
106 0.9182 0.9371 1.1478 1.1125
107 0.9174 0.9364 1.1468 1.1115
108 0.9005 0.9192 1.1256 1.0909
109 0.8998 0.9185 1.1247 1.0900
110 0.8835 0.9020 1.1043 1.0702
111 0.8828 0.9014 1.1034 1.0693
112 0.8671 0.8854 1.0838 1.0502
113 0.8664 0.8848 1.0830 1.0494
114 0.8513 0.8694 1.0641 1.0310
115 0.8506 0.8688 1.0633 1.0302
116 0.8360 0.8540 1.0450 1.0124
117 0.8354 0.8534 1.0443 1.0116
118 0.8213 0.8391 1.0266 0.9945
119 0.8207 0.8386 1.0259 0.9938
120 0.8071 0.8247 1.0089 0.9773

Delta: 7
Base: 23
Delta = 7 from N = 100 to 120
N Marine Fbat Hydra DTemp
100 1.1066 1.1287 1.3833 1.3412
101 1.1055 1.1277 1.3819 1.3398
102 1.0841 1.1060 1.3552 1.3138
103 1.0831 1.1051 1.3539 1.3125
104 1.0625 1.0842 1.3282 1.2875
105 1.0616 1.0833 1.3270 1.2863
106 1.0418 1.0632 1.3022 1.2622
107 1.0409 1.0624 1.3011 1.2611
108 1.0218 1.0431 1.2773 1.2379
109 1.0210 1.0423 1.2762 1.2368
110 1.0026 1.0237 1.2533 1.2145
111 1.0018 1.0229 1.2523 1.2135
112 0.9841 1.0049 1.2302 1.1920
113 0.9834 1.0043 1.2292 1.1910
114 0.9663 0.9869 1.2079 1.1703
115 0.9656 0.9862 1.2070 1.1694
116 0.9491 0.9695 1.1864 1.1494
117 0.9484 0.9689 1.1855 1.1485
118 0.9325 0.9527 1.1656 1.1292
119 0.9318 0.9521 1.1648 1.1283
120 0.9165 0.9365 1.1456 1.1097

Delta: 6
Base: 23
Delta = 6 from N = 100 to 120
N Marine Fbat Hydra DTemp
100 1.2780 1.3036 1.5975 1.5490
101 1.2768 1.3024 1.5960 1.5474
102 1.2523 1.2776 1.5654 1.5176
103 1.2511 1.2765 1.5639 1.5161
104 1.2276 1.2526 1.5345 1.4875
105 1.2265 1.2516 1.5331 1.4861
106 1.2038 1.2286 1.5048 1.4585
107 1.2028 1.2277 1.5035 1.4572
108 1.1810 1.2055 1.4762 1.4307
109 1.1800 1.2046 1.4750 1.4294
110 1.1589 1.1832 1.4487 1.4039
111 1.1580 1.1824 1.4475 1.4027
112 1.1377 1.1618 1.4222 1.3781
113 1.1368 1.1610 1.4210 1.3769
114 1.1173 1.1411 1.3966 1.3532
115 1.1164 1.1403 1.3955 1.3521
116 1.0975 1.1212 1.3719 1.3292
117 1.0967 1.1204 1.3709 1.3281
118 1.0785 1.1019 1.3481 1.3060
119 1.0777 1.1012 1.3472 1.3050
120 1.0601 1.0832 1.3251 1.2836

I think you should change the base damage of the units.

EDIT: MASS BUG REPORT TIME LOLOL





EDIT2: Also, some mineral fields have not been named "Gold". They are still called Mineral Fields.

So how long before the final version is out? Btw vrael i used similar mountainous structures in L&L i hope you wont care.

Not at all. Replication is the highest form of compliment isn't it?

Expect the final version at exactly 11:59:59 December 31st 2009. Possibly 11:59:58. I may not be as insane as Ahli when it comes to trigger count, but I still have my fair share of work to do. It's also very difficult for me to debug triggers that deal with multiple players since I can't host.

Quote from Vrael

Not at all. Replication is the highest form of compliment isn't it?

Expect the final version at exactly 11:59:59 December 31st 2009. Possibly 11:59:58. I may not be as insane as Ahli when it comes to trigger count, but I still have my fair share of work to do. It's also very difficult for me to debug triggers that deal with multiple players since I can't host.

Well vrael you know i very much enjoy the map so feel free to call upon me to help test. =P

Various times, when the "Hero [Bow]", battle marker does not spawn, the game will glitch and players will infinitely stay in the arena.

Did that happen when the marker didn't spawn and the player was fighting a solo battle, or was it only when two players were fighting together? I thought the glitch occurred if you entered someone elses battle just as they were leaving it, but that might not be the only case. I still can't figure out how it happens from my triggers, I'm going to have to just do a buttload of testing to find it I guess since no one on SEN seems to be posting in my topic in UMS Assistance.

Edit: I believe I fixed this, though I have still encountered some odd situations when the dead body doesn't spawn but should.

Updates:

1). Player vs. Player battles now work. I plan on making it so you can't fight in town, or maybe if you do fight in town the city guard attacks you afterwards (if you won the fight, if not, normal respawn), since you're clearly a danger to everyone present and a murderer .

2). Mining town vs Cave sidequest done, except for glitch-testing. (Which means it really isn't done )

3). Added a few spells: Teleport and Mana shield. Teleport gives you a wriath which you can fly around and jump to every few seconds. In a battle it doesn't burn very much mana, but out of battle it burns a lot so you can't just fly across the map. Mana shield is basically invincibility while in-battle. Both spells drain mana/second.

4). Changed the battle music. As lil-inferno said, the old file sounded like something out of a barnyard. I think the new sound is much more appropriate.

5). Completed a puzzle in the fortress in the top-left town. It's required to beat in order to get to the main-quest item that it protects, and I get the idea a lot of people are going to be frustrated over it

Some new screenies:


The outside building of the puzzle in the fortress.


The golem here tells you the rules of the puzzle, pay attention to his suggestion at the end of the text too.


Here's what the puzzle itself looks like when you start off. After 5 moves it resets to this.


Yes, it is solvable!


From the puzzle, you input your code in the barracks and it "opens" the Nexus so you can proceed. Every minute the door shuts again (except if someone's under it of course) so if you beat someone there they might have to solve the puzzle all over again

The puzzle itself is designed as a set of 4 matrices which correspond to a beacon, acting as 4 operators. You can think of the initial setup where only the firebat is red as [0 1 0 0] and stepping on a beacon multiplies that [0 1 0 0] to get a new matrix. I made sure that all combinations of the matrixes in 4 steps yielded only 1 result, so the code will always work, and each game the triggers randomize which beacons corresponds to which matrix, so you have to at least figure it out again if you've played and beat the puzzle before. I have another puzzle in the works, I'll post about that later.

Looks hot.

It is hot.

That puzzle brings a tear to my eye. Brilliant work!

Good game so far...
The fighting area looks alittle small though.
I find that you puzzles add a little touch to the game...
Side quest seem to intrigue me, further would joining a certain option affect side quests?

Quote from Vrael

Heh, thanks. I am having some difficulty, however, with the plot. It's proving to be very complex, for example here is a link to a flow chart for one of my side quests:



Note, this is a SIDE quest, not the main story Each word or phrase in that chart refers to a couple triggers, and then each battle in that chart refers to 32 base triggers to keep it within the bounds of the global system (I think it's 32, but it's some multiple of 4 since there are 4 human players), and then depending on the battle anywhere from 0-5 additional specific triggers for control and sequencing purposes times 4 players.
This one little piece of triggering has a couple death counters to keep track of a couple different things, then there's some triggers to set the global-type things for the battle. This project requires an extremely high level of control to ensure workability of all variables.

Much much more polished than what I'm going to have for a while >_>

Makes me wonder if I should have waited on making my thread. But nah, making the thread helped give me extra motivation

I'm looking forward to it. Considering the atmosphere I'm not too sure about the choice of Jungle as the tileset, but I can't really judge that kind of thing from where I'm standing.

Planning on releasing any type of demo or something?

EDIT: Some random comments lol.
First off I tried to avoid to lurkers spell when planning my map because it seems like kind of a cliche at this point

Quote

You enter a building only to find your way barred by a puzzle. Four beacons, each linked to a matrix operator control the colors of 4 statues. Get the colors the same and remember how you did it! You'll need to know the order of the beacons you used to input that as your key to unlock the door and progress. This one might be tough to figure out since the operators are matrices, and you can only see the before and after, not what the matrix is actually calculating. Should be fun

Second off get your maths out of my vidya games :/

Third off I'm kinda about waterfalls unless they're really really well done.

Finally about the demo. I opened it in SCMDraft and it looks really nice. The real question though is, "is it fun?"
I'll give you the answer to that one tomorrow

hello well heres my major gripes.

some of the story parts are too long or too slow. (especially the one after gaining the scepter. I so wanted to stab that sob.)

you cant see hp of heros. i know this isn't a big deal but we have shields and armor and can up both if we choose toss. I thought shields might be useful so i upped them and attack. well i got killed quite a few times. 1 shield was very very lame. Yes i know you should get armor but i wasn't sure if you had like a regeneration on shields that would have made it better.

The delay after winning a battle is a bit annoying.

I feel like a pokemon when i venture out. Basically if i run into something i must fight them at a battle stage.

teleport is the biggest ripoff spell i have ever seen. i cast i can only go so far and then my teleporter centers over my guy again. On top of this it drains my mana like no tomorrow. Mana is very precious and even though spells last more than 1 battle you really must be wise when you cast it. I honestly didn't use teleport beyond testing it out once.

a beacon to center you back on your hero after upgrading would be nice. Even though hotkeying and hitting the number twice does it not all of us are as use to that.

random spells are definately not my favorite. And depending on your hero they give you more help and make things easier.


ok now for the brighter side.

I liked your terrain in the upper town. The little brick walk was awesome.

battle areas were neat even though i didn't like when i tried to monopolize the ramp and they still found their way up to kill me a variety of ways. would like to see different battle area looks. That would make it more interesting.

The monsters seemed to have pretty good ai.

the option action system was fun.

Ok, now that I've actually played it let me give my opinion:
It wasn't fun. Battleing the same monsters over and over I can deal with. Battleing the same monsters over and over in the same small piece of terrain over and over. I can't.

The pokemoneque "repels" (or cloak as you call it) don't give you any actual advantage, they just make it so that you can avoid boring battles. Same with the smoke bomb (although with the smoke bomb, sometimes you'd have to fight anyway, because you'd appear on the field again, but surrounded by mobs).

As for the main quest. I tried it. I died right away because those golems hurt a lot. Then I tried it again and locked down the golems this time. I beat the golems, I got the the scepter and then I died on the scepter because of supprise battle.

So I walked ALL the way back to the area again, fighting the same monsters over and over, on the same piece of terrain over and over.

And then I fought the guy again, and I locked down the golems and ran the guy around and around so my spell could hit him but I wouldn't be taking damage. And then I mismicroed and died.

And then at that point I just gave up. How am I going to beat the guy. I could micro slightly better, and beat him a cheap way. But the way things felt is that I wasn't supposed to be able to beat that guy at the level I was at (level 6) and that even if I could micro a bit for the quest, to make the parts after the quest tolerable I'd have to grind. Fighting the same monsters on the same piece of terrain over and over and over and...

And then I exited, because I didn't find that enjoyable.

Other more minor things:
The shop in the second town sells the same stuff as the shop in the first (but at different prices). Fix that, it will give the shops more flavor. Oh wait, you only have that many items. Never mind then
I killed the person I was playing with in a battle. I expected to get some sort of reward because of evil people RPG or w/e. I didn't get any sort of award. I felt kind of cheated.
I walked behind the bar, and I thought "oh man I could steal that beer and sell it." I couldn't steal the beer.
The pause that happens between when you've killed the monsters, and when the battle ends, is really stupid.

EDIT: You might say something like "the monsters after the quest aren't as hard as the boss. You should have microed that bit and continued. Well the reason I quit at that point was because:
1. I was already at my wits end. I was finding the repetitiveness of the battles annoying.
2. I thought that it was kind of dumb that only someone with the lockdown spell could beat the quest boss at level 6.
3. The way I would have beaten the quest boss felt cheap, instead of creative. I don't enjoy using cheap tactics.

By the way, if you're wondering how I beat pokemon, the answer is sound strategy and repels. The time I beat pokemon platinum I only found a handful of wild pokemon, and it was always to catch them. I also skipped as many trainer battles as possible.

Also in pokemon you can run from battles.

Quote from Norm

That puzzle brings a tear to my eye. Brilliant work!

Thank you.

Quote from Tempz

Side quest seem to intrigue me, further would joining a certain option affect side quests?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but as you can see from the picture there, that particular side quest has 2 outcomes. Only 2 outcomes, but multiple ways to get to either one. My personal favorite from that particular quest is the "attack" option from the mining town side, because if you win you get to blow the hell out of the town.

Quote from killer_sss

some of the story parts are too long or too slow. (especially the one after gaining the scepter. I so wanted to stab that sob.)

To be quite honest, if you think this, you may not be a part of my target audience for this map. (Though, I imagine much of battle.net is not my target audience...)

Quote from killer_sss

i know this isn't a big deal but we have shields and armor and can up both if we choose toss.

This is an intentional pitfall. lol. on the plus side, think about it. if you have 1 shield with 15 shield armor, over the course of the game, that 1 shield is going to save you 15*(number of hits while you have shield) health.

Quote from killer_ss

The delay after winning a battle is a bit annoying.

I am afraid that if I remove it, my triggers will screw up since not every system is designed to run in exactly 1 trigger cycle. Some may take 2 or 3 to update.

Quote from killer_sss

I feel like a pokemon when i venture out. Basically if i run into something i must fight them at a battle stage.

lol! Well, the battle stage is more so that I can better control the terms of the battle at hand, when compared to something like real-time combat

Quote from killer_sss

teleport is the biggest ripoff spell i have ever seen. i cast i can only go so far and then my teleporter centers over my guy again. On top of this it drains my mana like no tomorrow. Mana is very precious and even though spells last more than 1 battle you really must be wise when you cast it. I honestly didn't use teleport beyond testing it out once.

That's fine. players who choose not to experiment with the functions and spells of the map will simply do poorer.

Quote from killer_sss

a beacon to center you back on your hero after upgrading would be nice. Even though hotkeying and hitting the number twice does it not all of us are as use to that.

this would also be useless... sorry

Quote from killer_sss

random spells are definately not my favorite. And depending on your hero they give you more help and make things easier.

Well, they're not random. At one point they were, but now they're not. They're dependant on the status of the game.

Quote from killer_sss

I liked your terrain in the upper town. The little brick walk was awesome.

Thanks!

Quote from killer_sss

battle areas were neat even though i didn't like when i tried to monopolize the ramp and they still found their way up to kill me a variety of ways. would like to see different battle area looks. That would make it more interesting.

The monsters seemed to have pretty good ai.

the option action system was fun.

Thanks. I would like to make differet battle area looks, but starcraft only goes up to 256x256.

Quote from scwizard

It wasn't fun. Battleing the same monsters over and over I can deal with. Battleing the same monsters over and over in the same small piece of terrain over and over. I can't.

Well, this rpg isn't for everyone I guess.

Quote from scwizard

The pokemoneque "repels" (or cloak as you call it) don't give you any actual advantage, they just make it so that you can avoid boring battles.

You clearly haven't discovered all the uses it can be put to

Quote from scwizard

Same with the smoke bomb (although with the smoke bomb, sometimes you'd have to fight anyway, because you'd appear on the field again, but surrounded by mobs).

This is a point I find valid. I may need to do something about this.

Quote from scwizard

As for the main quest. I tried it. I died right away because those golems hurt a lot. Then I tried it again and locked down the golems this time. I beat the golems, I got the the scepter and then I died on the scepter because of supprise battle.

So I walked ALL the way back to the area again, fighting the same monsters over and over, on the same piece of terrain over and over.

And then I fought the guy again, and I locked down the golems and ran the guy around and around so my spell could hit him but I wouldn't be taking damage. And then I mismicroed and died.

And then at that point I just gave up. How am I going to beat the guy. I could micro slightly better, and beat him a cheap way. But the way things felt is that I wasn't supposed to be able to beat that guy at the level I was at (level 6) and that even if I could micro a bit for the quest, to make the parts after the quest tolerable I'd have to grind. Fighting the same monsters on the same piece of terrain over and over and over and...

And then I exited, because I didn't find that enjoyable.

Well, two things. One, you're not utilizing everything you could. And two, the map is incomplete.
(And three, I think those ghosts arent supposed to have lockdown lol)

Quote from scwizard

I killed the person I was playing with in a battle. I expected to get some sort of reward because of evil people RPG or w/e. I didn't get any sort of award. I felt kind of cheated.

Well, the EXP system for these battles isn't finished yet, but you could have looted the player's corpse.

Quote from scwizard

2. I thought that it was kind of dumb that only someone with the lockdown spell could beat the quest boss at level 6.

I can beat him at level 6 with any character, but typically I'm level 7 by that point.

Quote from scwizard

By the way, if you're wondering how I beat pokemon, the answer is sound strategy and repels. The time I beat pokemon platinum I only found a handful of wild pokemon, and it was always to catch them. I also skipped as many trainer battles as possible.

Also in pokemon you can run from battles.

Umm, the game-boy game? If you're talking about a starcraft game, I didn't know one existed, so, no I wasn't wondering
Also in my rpg you can not run from battles. (unless you use an item, but you knew that )

Thanks to both of your for giving it a good run-through though, and for your honest feedback!

How do you beat the first quest as a level 6 marine then?

EDIT: Oh, use the health potions.

Still not going to replay it though, it's not my style. Too much like final fantasy.

Overall some people like the game style and hate it.
In the game its more timed since its more of a old school rpg type (nes rpgs)

where you go in the arena whenever you encounter an enemy...

Quote from Vrael

Quote from killer_sss

some of the story parts are too long or too slow. (especially the one after gaining the scepter. I so wanted to stab that sob.)

To be quite honest, if you think this, you may not be a part of my target audience for this map. (Though, I imagine much of battle.net is not my target audience...)

don't get me wrong i love story there were a few very repetative parts which isn't bad either but when it seems like they guy has been telling you the same thing for the past 30mins lol thats what irks me. Maybe (and this big maybe) you could do a short story version and long story version from which you can select at the begining. At least i would hope you try and trim down the repitition.

Quote from Vrael

Quote from killer_sss

i know this isn't a big deal but we have shields and armor and can up both if we choose toss.

This is an intentional pitfall. lol. on the plus side, think about it. if you have 1 shield with 15 shield armor, over the course of the game, that 1 shield is going to save you 15*(number of hits while you have shield) health.

eh i understand in the longhall its good but for welcoming newcomers its bad. A slow start isn't fun. I don't mind getting my butt handed to me but when it seems i cant make progress i get frustrated as do many others.

Quote from Vrael

[qote=name:killer_sss]teleport is the biggest ripoff spell i have ever seen. i cast i can only go so far and then my teleporter centers over my guy again. On top of this it drains my mana like no tomorrow. Mana is very precious and even though spells last more than 1 battle you really must be wise when you cast it. I honestly didn't use teleport beyond testing it out once.

That's fine. players who choose not to experiment with the functions and spells of the map will simply do poorer.
[/quote]

its that i don't mind expiermenting i just honestly cant think of what to use it for. I ran across this one spot where you could use tele to get some powerups (which at that point of game were meanless compared to what i could get for fighting) and i choose not to go over but my bud went over and got stuck lol.

I just can't see a newb too your map using that spell without having some sort of clue what to use it for. They just don't have the mana resources to continually expierment. And its not like you can turn it off from what i can tell either (besides draining your mana to 0).

Quote from Vrael

Quote from killer_sss

battle areas were neat even though i didn't like when i tried to monopolize the ramp and they still found their way up to kill me a variety of ways. would like to see different battle area looks. That would make it more interesting.

Thanks. I would like to make differet battle area looks, but starcraft only goes up to 256x256.

Any way to shrink current battlefield size to fit in more :? if not had to try lol.


I will keep checking back on progress. Once it jumps some more i will play some more

Vrael was I the first person to ever complete the puzzle? Also could you just put a little "Thanks to TiKels" somewhere since I helped a teeny tiny bit. =D. Plz?