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the Piss Corner
Oct 7 2010, 8:01 pm
By: UnholyUrine  

Oct 7 2010, 8:01 pm UnholyUrine Post #1



Hi folks,

I'm sure you all know me well. I've finally got my grubby lil hands on SC2 (actually, I have my friend's account :awesome:)
I can't believe the most popular maps are all sc1 ports :\ with no creativity.

So what'd I do? Criticize them! :D

I'm hoping to make a series and start posting this on other websites, so any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
I'm also thinking of adding images/videos to accompany this long-winded passage.
So, put on your reading glasses, boys and girls.

Quote
I guess I should introduce myself, right?
Hi, I'm UnholyUrine. I've come from a longwinded background from mapping in the SC1 community. Times were tough back then; we had to work with what we had. There were no "attributes", no "behaviours", and definately no customizable spells. We had to use Hyper Triggers, incorporate units into spells, work around units' limitations, and shoot hoops and marbles out on the fields. All we had were Conditions and Actions, aka the old fashioned "If, than." Heck, there wasn't even an "Else" after that.

Even so, this did not deter the blistering ideas of the nerdiest of the nerds, who wasted their time to understand the system, and created thousands of different maps that I, till this day, still endear.

But the one thing that SC1 has taught me is to be cynical. Shit's gonna come and it ain't going to miss that fan, folks. Maps that are popular in SC1 are rarely good, and are usually designed to melt the pubbies’ (public players) brain into mush, which is something they really enjoy. Being a game designer at heart, I aimed to criticize all the shitty gayass maps out there that dared to be hosted on B.net. I want to point the finger at the people who produce maps that are imbalanced, boring, or have been done before. These are the people that take a concept and ruin it. These are the people that try to design a game that just cannot and should not be done on an RTS. These are the people that sacrifices gameplay for everything else. These are the people that I have only two words to say, "Fuck You!”

Now that StarCraft 2 is here and has bestowed us this monster of an editor, the geeks are back, and are once again fighting for glory; the glory to show off who has the best mega ultra combo map out there. Yet if you look at the most popular maps, they're usually awful, tasteless, or have at least not reached its full potential. While everyone's so happy snappy and excited about the raging river of content that is flooding their little minds, I want to start pulling them out of it so they can wipe themselves and realize that they were swimming in a river of piss. In other words, I want people to be more critical about the maps that are being played. This way, we can improve and evolve the maps that will be made in the future. See, I’m a nice guy, right?

Note: Being named “UnholyUrine”, you’d expect me to have a bit of a potty mouth. Please don’t take it personally. And if you feel offended, drop me a comment and see if you can convince me otherwise. And don’t be a bitch and complain, because nobody likes a bitch.

Now that the introduction's finally over, let’s start reviewing one of the most popular maps out there, Nexus Wars.

For those that have been either living under a rock, or living under the massive throbbing caucus of “melee”, Nexus Wars is a “massing game” where you run around building specific buildings which will faithfully spawn the unit it is named after every so often. And the object of the game is to get these units to break through and kill the enemies’ nexus on the other side. But oh wait, they’re gonna build units too! So now you gotta counter their units. You can also build defensive buildings and other stuff that would increase your income, which would allow you to build more buildings to spawn more spawns to screw over your opponent’s nexus.

This is all fine and dandy, until you’ve actually played the game a few times and realize some big, bad problems brewing like a benign tumor bulging from the bottom of your buttocks.
First of all, one problem that I encounter is that, for some magical, unknown reason, one team's units will cluster and start forming what I'd like to call the "Blob of Death". You can build, and defend, and scream, and say as many "your mom" jokes all you want, but there's no stopping that blob from devouring all of your units. This genuinely pisses me off because you're helpless, and no amount of strategy can help. Incidentally, the mapper realized this fiasco and put in a one-time use, emergency Nuke, which is the only way to utterly destroy the blob. "So, what's wrong with that?" you might say. Well, just because it's a completely linear, 1 dimensional strategy, doesn’t mean it is a godsend put in by the map’s creator.

Another thing that pisses me off is that every building has its own timer, making it so that units don’t spawn at the same time. This completely throws away the idea of “massing”. This is especially bad during one of those “Blobs of Death” moments, where your units just march intermittently into the slaughterhouse.


Fear the Invasion of The BLOB


Looking deeper, I can see that units have around the same stats as in melee, and while I do agree that it may be easier on the newbie, it also makes it very boring. This also makes teching up somewhat redundant. Teching up all the way to broodlords just doesn’t feel very satisfying as it is in melee. This is probably because you have infinite amount of cash income, and that you don’t have to worry about your units dying because you’ll have an endless supply of it. There is no micro and no macro. In other words, the two biggest factors from melee gaming are gone from this map, yet the creator decided to keep everything else is the same… This doesn’t make any fucking sense! If you take away the core gameplay from a game, you have to add your own gameplay!

The only way to fix this is to actually be CREATIVE and add interesting units rather than copying melee units, because this is NOT melee. Isn’t this what UMS is all about; being cool and implementing your own ideas? Units should all have a specialized function “en-mass”. For example, stalkers are too similar to marines and marauders in that they’re all ranged and have no other functions (blink and concussive shells do diddly-jack when you have so many units and no terrain variations). Or, for example, compare reapers to roaches. Obviously, in melee, they’re very different, but when you pit them together without any way to control them, there’re almost no differences other than their health and damage.

Even better, you could’ve introduced a three tier system, where everyone starts with zerg, build a specific zerg building to get terran units, which are stronger. Then, they can build a specific terran building to get protoss buildings, which are the strongest. Obviously, some zerg units should still be strong and specialized, like broodlords should still be able to rape terran bio. Doing this introduces something that every game should have, “Strategy” and “Real-time tactics”, aka RTS (d-uh). Nexus wars, the way it is right now, is just a big clusterfuck.



BOOOM bitch! As cool as this picture looks, it's actually boring b/c it needs to be used every game. There's no other way around it... *yawn*



Yes, there are some redeeming factors about this map. Everything works perfectly fine, and the terrain is straightforward – minimalism at its best. Heroes can be built for a hefty price, and are the only units that you can control. Most important, however, is that after 40 minutes, every unit spawns once and does a final battle, just to stop things from becoming too long. Thank god! While this is a less than elegant way of ending things, at least we won’t start doing Nexus Wars marathons and starve our babies. (But I think some of us already have…)

Now, if you are thinking, "waitaminute, Mr. ponce-brains, how can you criticize one of the most popular maps on b.net?"
Well, my answer would be "Because Battle.Net is Shit!"

And not just b.net 2, mind you, b.net 1 suffers from the exact same fate. Maps that are played the most often are always massing games with little to no strategy or authenticity to it. It’s amazing how everyone just goes, "Here are a bunch of units, and there are a bunch of other units. Gee, I bet it’ll be fun to see what happens if we made a bajillion of them and then clusterfuck them together"...

Well I'll tell you what happens. After years of data collecting and playing games on b.net (and a bit in b.net2), doing tons of research and compiling every single detail into one, perfectly legitimate sentence, "You get a clusterfuck of units (d-uh), in which you continually feed (d-uh) until by some magical way one blob outfucks the other.”



Real life Clusterfuck. So much more awesome, don't you think?


Now, if you’d listen to my story, I only recently got my friend’s account for SC2. I didn’t get SC2 right away because of the piece of shit that is called “Battle.net 2.0”. I was ready for some awesome maps, because of all the fuss about the new and awesome abilities of the editor. Imagine my surprise (not) when three-quarters of most “popular” (I say “popular” with quotations because the popularity system can go fuck itself) maps are massing games. That is just sad. And I don't see how this... disease… this ritual, this CULT… was able to extend its slithering tentacles all the way into Starcraft 2 and start “what-every-tentacle-monster-does-once-it’s-got-its-tentacles-wrapped-around-something-ing” it so readily.

No, actually, I do see how, some bastards took the idea from sc1 and ported to sc2, claiming it their own (and making the previous creator their bitch)!
And that's the biggest bombshell of this map. It is completely, 100% doable on Starcraft 1!! Seriously guys, this is based off a map called "Sand Castle Wars" and “Nexus Destroyers” from SC1 UMS. While for us, both maps were a triggering marvel, and had actual fun micro elements, you guys have a massively orgasmic editor that can do so much more. This is like going back to the stone-age of mapping, where their idea of fun were throwing rocks at each other to see who’s skull will crack. This map is just a plain old massing game, and that was boring 5 years ago! Doing it in a new, 3D environment doesn't make it fun again... That’s like thinking “oh gee, I’m getting bored masturbating to female pornography, let’s try masturbating to males, I bet it’ll be fun as hell!” … well actually, maybe that’s why futa… EHH let’s get back on topic.

It’s just depressing that absolutely no new features were added. You could've done something crazy, but instead you just did what anyone could've done several years ago. I mean, from the top of my head, I would’ve made the SCV something to do rather than sitting around. You could’ve given it spells, like a stasis field ability that can block the path for a while, allowing you to use ranged/air units or regroup your units. You can give it an anti-air spell attack or you can use it to buff units near it, but risk it being trapped and killed. Obviously, it can be rebuilt, but with a price.

Overall, it is an apocalyptically boring game, and it doesn't warrant itself to be so popular. Only because everyone loves to see masses of shit dying and burning their 500$ graphics card, doesn't mean it is a good map.

I hope that by reading this, you will better appreciate the ingenuity and hard work that some mappers put into their games. I’m not saying all massing games are bogus. Why, one of my favorite classic maps back in SC1 was penguin wars, a massing game. But Nexus Wars does not deserve its popularity.

I’m sure that we can do better than that.



Ragequit!! I don't blame him.



Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 12 2010, 1:36 am by UnholyUrine.



None.

Oct 7 2010, 8:05 pm Neki Post #2



You can just cancel the unit and align all the spawning times if you find that really an issue. The thing is that blob of death phenomena always appears in most types of Tug of war games, because once you reach a critical mass of units, any small of reinforcements are instantly obliterated with no losses and you continue reinforcing yourself. You're right, nuke is the shortcut to it. I recommend you play Nexus Word Wars instead, a much better and skillful game.



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Oct 7 2010, 8:11 pm UnholyUrine Post #3



yeah, I know :P, that's why I didn't choose to review that one.
My god you read fast :O



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Oct 7 2010, 8:13 pm Neki Post #4



What's your thoughts on Roundabout war then? It's basically like a modifed Nexus Wars with different unit stats, upgrading and heroes, I didn't think that was too bad, but if I haven't mentioned, very unpicky person when I'm playing maps.



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Oct 7 2010, 8:21 pm UnholyUrine Post #5



It has wasted potential.
It is a little better, because it is at least SOMEwhat creative...
but then again...

Imagine if you will, you build units like in melee, except on crack (aka fast money, insta build).
You can send these units at any time at your discretion.
Once they're at the Roundabout, you lose control of them, and they will go around the circle.
They will attack enemies they encounter.
You gather points while your units in the roundabout. The more units you have, the more points you get
You can choose to build units to stay at your base and shoot down enemies that are at the roundabout.

Don't you think that is a WAY more interesting design?
Better than the current Roundable by miles. I don't even know what happens to the units. Are they supposed to attack the other person's base? I don't even know. because the game's whole idea was copied, and is bad. :(

Wasted Potential.



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Oct 7 2010, 10:32 pm NicholasBeige Post #6



I think... in short... the reason 1000's of people sign onto Battle.net 2.0 and have the mentality of little children - "ooh, nexus wars... it's on top of list... click, play... omg hundreds of units... oh, i won... try agian... oh i lost.. try again...

This is just because Blizzard have marketed to these little kiddies. And they are this disease which is festering in our nice on-line community.

Map-makers are a fuckin' rare breed. Map-makers of quality, good work ethic, and strong moral values... are 1 in a fucking-gut-wrenchingly-embarrassing 1,000,000...

"Blizzards ultimate 'whoops, we got caught with our pants down and there's dicks fucking us from all angles' moment" has got to be epitomised in the 'Popularity System...'... I'm sure the code for that 'system' states something like 'the more people who play it, the more popular it is'... If it had a stroke of realism, they would have implemented a 'fad' or 'trend' into it... So that after at least 1 month, the top 2 maps on the popularity system disappear from Battle.net all together... and someone assassinates the wretched, vile, spawns of satan who ported them onto Battle.net 2. in the first place...

[ / end of flame ]

And since map makers of quality, and good moral values are rare.. It is therefore true that map players of quality and good moral values are also rare. Which, in the current climate, would mean - that any maps that don't involve 100s of units spawning periodically and attack-moving somewhere else - good, quality, ethically decent maps - will never be seen on page 1.

And Blizzard will feature 2 maps each 2 months? or something like that? I don't know about my cousins over in the US, but here in the UK and EU realm in general, we have some 'micro-tournament' feature and something else that is just a variation on a theme....

[ / actual end of my anger]

Apologies if my language/comments offended anyone. This thread is called the Piss-Corner is it not?



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Oct 7 2010, 11:13 pm TiKels Post #7



The only way a "blob of enemies" can form is if you do bad counters OR they build a ton of good counter buildings at once, but of course, by then, you should have your own blob. The photon cannons and heroes (specifically the thor hero with nuke spell) defend when the enemies get close, cutting the size of the blob. This map DID have one original idea, it prevents any sort of walling. If you wall in your units, they teleport through the buildings somehow.

I really don't see any problems with the popularity system. As a matter of fact, I defend it.



"If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

-NudeRaider

Oct 8 2010, 1:12 am UnholyUrine Post #8



Buildings, and any units as a matter of fact, can now be set to have "zero entity" (don't know exact term)... That's why there're stackable cannons. It's actually just a checkbox you have to uncheck.. or so I've heard...

luls I was hoping for feedback for my actual writing and whether this'd fly with peeps.. but w/e.

I forgot to mention the heroes.. .. oops. It's true, they do add something to the game.. Hmm..

The popularity system is Okay for certain things, but is not adequate as it is. I don't wanna discuss it here tho :\

I was thinking of changing the title :P



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Oct 8 2010, 1:40 pm NudeRaider Post #9

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from UnholyUrine
Imagine if you will, you build units like in melee, except on crack (aka fast money, insta build).
You can send these units at any time at your discretion.
Once they're at the Roundabout, you lose control of them, and they will go around the circle.
They will attack enemies they encounter.
You gather points while your units in the roundabout. The more units you have, the more points you get
You can choose to build units to stay at your base and shoot down enemies that are at the roundabout.
Are you talking about Overmind defense?




Oct 8 2010, 5:14 pm UnholyUrine Post #10



Noo....
have you played Roundabout Wars? :D?

Like if you have your units running around the middle you get points.

Tho this isn't true in the real game :(



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Oct 8 2010, 8:10 pm NicholasBeige Post #11



Urine, hope you dont mind me callin you that...

I think I might actually make this map... It'd be a fair shot to climb the pubularity charts... :) wish me luck!



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Oct 8 2010, 10:45 pm UnholyUrine Post #12



Lol, if you actually do, give me some credit.. or YOU might be on the next Piss Corner

GL



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Oct 9 2010, 3:10 am payne Post #13

:payne:

Quote from UnholyUrine
Lol, if you actually do, give me SEN some credit.. or YOU might be on the next Piss Corner

GL
Fixed. :wtfawesome:



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Oct 9 2010, 3:43 am UnholyUrine Post #14



GTFO. this was my idea.. and that was MY bribery :D

SEN on SC2 is pretty lackluster tho, really :(



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Oct 9 2010, 5:13 am payne Post #15

:payne:

Quote from UnholyUrine
SEN on SC2 is pretty lackluster tho, really :(
It's coming slowly but surely!



None.

Oct 9 2010, 12:08 pm NicholasBeige Post #16



I actually came up with a much cooler idea... no offence to either of you! I'll consider writing up about it on the relevant forum section some day... might need a few more hands :)



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Oct 9 2010, 9:38 pm ClansAreForGays Post #17



Quote from payne
Quote from UnholyUrine
SEN on SC2 is pretty lackluster tho, really :(
It's coming slowly but surely!
It definitely is




Oct 13 2010, 10:32 pm UnholyUrine Post #18



BUMP cause I added pretty pictures :D



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Oct 14 2010, 5:09 pm NudeRaider Post #19

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Hm, are you sure the map you're criticizing isn't just a SC2 version of Desert Strike in disguise? Or maybe Sand Castle Wars? This sure looks like it...

Btw. the way Sand Castle Wars deals with "blobs of death" is that there's chokes in the terrain that can be blocked off with liftable buildings to collect units behind this gate and battle the blob from high ground. Too bad SC2 doesn't give advantage for high ground anymore (as long as you can see it).




Oct 14 2010, 9:46 pm Dungeon-Master Post #20



couldn't someone re-make the high ground advantage in a map? Isn't galaxy editor supposed to be able to do anything?



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