Hi folks,
my current system is a ECS GeForce7050M-M motherboard with a AMD Athlon X2 4800+, 2GB DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 9600GT.
I think I've finally reached a point where 2GB RAM is just not enough for my increased multitasking demands, so I'm looking for a reasonable but cheap increase in main memory. I'm mainly gaming, browsing, and downloading the same time but occasionally I'm also using Office and Photoshop.

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135086

RAM:


What I noticed during the screenshots is that the Ram is actually running at 2500MHz / 7 = 357MHz instead of 400 which would be its maximum. Also when cool'n'quiet throttles my CPU the /7 modifier changes so that's apparently variable.
Is there any way to get more speed out of my current hardware?

In any case, I'm asking which memory stick should I get to add the most to my system (max. 4GB) while keeping the old one (because that's probably cheaper).
Obviously I could just get any other 2GB DDR2 stick with 400+ MHz but I'm asking because of possible timing conflicts / synergies and what else which I may not know about.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 2 2010, 12:15 pm by NudeRaider.

You actually need DDR2 800 because DDR2 runs at twice the speed of what you're looking at. (400x2=800 obviously.)

Keep in mind your mobo only has 2 slots for RAM.

I'd recommend this right here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104007

Make sure whatever stick you get has a heat spreader and a latency no higher than 5-5-5-15.

Yup, realized that.

I already got a 5-5-5-18 stick, which is a bit slower than what you recommend.
Would the new one still run faster than the one I'm currently using despite the fact that they'd be running in dual channel mode?
And if yes, is there a way to prioritize the new stick for memory usage?

The lower latency stick would most likely default to the higher latency of the other stick. So in that case go 5-5-5-18 then.

Also, no, you can't have it prioritize one stick over the other if you are using two in one channel for dual channel mode. It will always be using both, regardless of how much RAM is in use.

Yeah, would have surprised me, but I was confused that I should use a 5-5-5-15.

What about incompatibilities? How likely is it the new stick will conflict either with my board or my old stick? Are there incompatibility lists or something like that?

Generally speaking there wont be an issue as long as the voltage and frequency match. If the voltage doesn't match and your BIOS allows you to set it manually then that wont be an issue. The timings shouldn't be an issue but again if you can set them manually that'd be nice just in case the new sticks 15 doesn't default to 18. I've also heard in very very very rare cases of some RAM brands not liking each other but there's really no common basis for it. I've used G.Skill with Kingston, Corsair with OCZ, Muskin with Patriot, and never was their ever an issue just because of the brand.

Yeah, find the cheapest ram you can get of ddr2-800 at 5-5-5-18 or lower.

You should also force the ram in the BIOS to have a CR of 1T rather than 2, as that significantly decreases performance (though apparently not much in ddr3). In any case, you're using the ram at 315 MHz when it's supposed to be at 400 MHz, so fiddle around with the settings. You can probably make it up to CPU/6 (416 MHz) and 5-5-5-18-1T pretty easily.

Alright, thanks everyone. Nothing really new, but it was good to talk about these things and for reassurance.

My BIOS is apparently shit. All I can set is the RAM frequency (which is ignored?!) and the CAS Latency.
Does Windows or the Cool'n'Quiet drivers override the frequency setting? If it does, shouldn't it be possible to use some software to get the RAM to run at 400MHz?

As for RAM compatibility with motherboards, it is definitely possible to get sticks that aren't compatible. Or just sort-of compatible. This is most notable with high-specced RAM - I bought some DDR500 that would only work in a few motherboards, even if it was running at 400 or manually configured to 400. Luckily it worked in my motherboard, though.

99% of the time any RAM you buy should work, but it would pay to check your motherboard website as they generally have lists of verified-supported RAM.

Also I wouldn't bother chasing after the lowest latency RAM. With DDR2 and DDR3 latency matters less and less compared to DDR. You'd do much better to save the $ in invest in an SSD, or brand new large HD. For example any terabyte HD you buy is going to have much better performance than an older 250 or 500 gig drive, due to increased areal density meaning data can spin through the heads faster. Hard drives are the #1 bottleneck in computers today, and have been for about a decade; tinkering with your RAM latency is missing the forest for the trees.

Finally bought the RAM. It's working, but it's not running in dual channel mode. My motherboard, a ECS 7050M-M with nForce 630i southbridge is definitely capable.


The old RAM is a 2GB MCI Computer PC2-6400.


The new one is 2GB Kingston PC2-6400.


So what's wrong? Why doesn't it run in dual channel? Did I just get the 1% of the incompatible RAMs?
Didn't find any relevant BIOS setting.

It is possible that they have an incompatible configuration of memory chips. Do they both have the same number of memory chips on them?

It's in the bios. You'll need to set the timings to what you want. It should do 5-5-5-18-24-1T at cpu/5 (200 MHz). As for the dual channel, there's generally a setting for it, but on my motherboard I just couldn't get it to work with non-identical ram. I tried it on a different computer and it automatically detected the dual channel (and turned my 1 GB stick with 64 MB clusters in to a 512 stick to match the 1 GB stick with 128 MB clusters). Finding the settings in BIOS is quite annoying, but you should be able to find it in the manual.

Personally, I don't notice the difference in speed between dual and single channel. Certainly there is a bottleneck there, but I didn't notice it, ever.

I'm confident that I'm not blind, but that the setting simply isn't there. All I can set is the CL timing. But apparently only CAS Latency of 5 is working.
Do I need to flash my BIOS with a newer version?

Advanced settings -> dram frequency : Manual
Advanced settings -> dram timing : Manual

And oh my god, this bios is terrible. There's 4 choices under frequency/voltage control, and none of them have anything to do with frequency/voltage.

I don't know nude, sorry. If it were me, I'd live with single channel. There's a reason ECS is on the shit tier list. If the advanced settings don't let you do stuff, then there's literally nothing you can do. The manual also lists that ddr2-800 runs at 2T, so you might not be able to bump that down to 1T.

Exactly what I wanted to say when he first said he was having problems with dual channel. Even Biostar and Foxconn have been stepping their game up as of late, especially Biostar. ECS mobos are starting to be looked at like Sparkle PSUs: A hazard at best.

Sparkle PSUs aren't all bad. They make the absolute best 250W PSU you can buy. AFAIK, they're priced somewhat correctly. Most SPI stuff costs more than seasonic on newegg at least.

ECS does make good motherboards, but their old ones are terrible, and for the most part they're going to have to live with that for a good 5-10 years unless they start making awesome parts (and make their website really good).

Foxconn obviously makes good products too, and I think they supply a LOT of stuff for a LOT of companies (which is scary, because I never know if my gigabyte or asus motherboard has foxconn parts in it). They won't live down the i7 fiasco for a long while.

Seagate makes excellent hard drives too, but once they bought maxtor their quality went way down for a while, and even mentioning seagate to someone who knows a little bit about computer building but not a lot usually triggers a shitgate response.

I was told the motherboard would be long lasting and of good quality. Have I been scammed or is it "just" the compatibility department that is lacking?

First off, the motherboard has clearly lasted for 2 years, so it's long lasting (you can expect another 3 out of it, certainly). In the past ECS has been notorious for poor quality (DOA or die within a few months). You haven't been scammed or anything, you got what you payed for. It's entirely likely you could have gotten much more, but for right now, that's neither here nor there.

It's clear to me that if you can't figure out how to overclock or manually set timings, and I can't find it in the online manual, I don't think it's possible. I'm quite angry that ECS would release a product not capable of such simple tasks, but you're not a complete idiot, so I know that they're to blame, not you. Perhaps a BIOS update may solve the problem, or fiddling around some more with the settings.

In my BIOS, I can set all of the ram timings manually, and voltages manually. It's fairly simple, but all of this is documented in the manual. I can't find anything like this:

in your manual, which leads me to believe that it doesn't exist. There MIGHT be a setting somewhere which disables voltage control and such, but I think that's awfully stupid to do.

My advice is to deal with the single channel RAM. Most motherboards have single channel ram if they only have 2 slots anyway. There's a pretty good chance that ECS was lying or made a mistake when they said it was dual channel. Even the best companies (seasonic says a product has 2 12V rails but only has 1) make poor mistakes on labeling.

I highly encourage you to read wikipedia's article on dual channel if you haven't already. Tom's hardware mentions that there's only a 5% performance gain on a number of tasks, and pretty much nothing a home user can do will take advantage of the dual channel over single channel. Probably one of the most difficult concepts to grasp in computers is that it doesn't matter. So long as everything works people are fine using 10 year old computers, so long as they're not painfully slow.

Hm. Unsatisfying.

I knew that the performance gain is negligible, but it's sort of sense of perfection that I want dual channel. For my computer I require of myself that I get everything working the way it's supposed to.
Where ever on the Internet I'm checking (forums, data sheets, stores, etc) the conclusion is that my mobo is dual channel capable, so I'd say it's safe to assume it's no typo of Elitegroup.

I think I saw a setting for voltages, but as I understand it this is only needed for overclocking which I'm not planning to do.
I can set the frequency to 5 predefined speeds (133,200,300,400,533) or something similar.
And as already mentioned I can set the CL to anything between 1 and 7.
Nothing else of relevance as far as I can tell.

Long story short, I won't flash my BIOS just for that. Just not worth the risk. I kinda hoped the guy in the computer store may have given me the wrong RAM and I could fix it by getting the right one tomorrow.

Btw. long lasting motherboards by my definition start at 5 years, not at 2 years.
The computer was pretty cheap by comparison, but I put emphasis on long lasting parts because considering my budget it was still quite expensive and I can't buy a whole new computer every 2 years.