ZvT Advice!
Apr 10 2010, 10:33 pm
By: DeM)s.  

Apr 10 2010, 10:33 pm DeM)s. Post #1

So I do play melee and yes I do play as Zerg and yes I have no idea what to do against Terran!!
Actually I kinda do :blush:

What I do know: (and it's not much)
Usually Fast Expo against T
M&M's = Lurks
Watch out for the bunker rush
Get Defilers as most of Terran units are ranged

What I want to know:
Vults&Tanks.. how to counter?
Any specific BO's?
Anything else I missed or didn't mention because my brain is dead :P


Apr 11 2010, 12:21 am BeDazed Post #2

I'm going to assume you probably know the basics.
Vults&Tanks = Mutalings
Usually, if you harass fast factory T with mutas, you can take the whole map and just go straight to gaurdians. Thats why Ts don't do mech as a standard BO against Z, just like how they don't do infantry as standard BO against toss.
List of BOs
2 hatch fast muta
3 hatch lings
3 hatch mutalinglurker
Then its usually micro battle and battle of the wits.


Apr 11 2010, 2:10 am DeM)s. Post #3

Thank you In Daze :D
That helped.


Apr 11 2010, 1:06 pm Super Duper Post #4

12Hatch opener (You are trying to get a fast economy, but are vulnerable to a bunker rush).
9 - Overlord
12 - Hatchery at Nat
11* - Pool

*It can be 11 or 12. 11 is more safe, but it cuts a drone.

In the event you get bunker rushed, use your zerglings to attack the SCV making the bunker. If you have no zerglings :wtfage: then pull 6 drones off the mineral line to delay the terran as much as possible. With good enough micro, your drones can repel the terran force. Even if all those 6 drones die, you are then tied with him economically, because, think about it. He has to disrupt his Build Order and pull 7 SCVs off his line, 2 of which may die.

A standard followup from a 12hatch, 11pool is this:

13 - Hatchery
@100% Spawning Pool - 2-6 Zerglings
16 - Overlord
16 - Extractor
@100 Gas - Lair
NOTE - Make Sunken Colonies as necessary
22-24 - Overlord
@100 Gas - Zergling Speed
@60% Lair - Hydralisk Den
@90% Lair - Expansion Extractor
@100% Lair - Research Lurker/Build Evolution Chamber (+1 carapace when done).
(optional) @100% Lair - Spire
@50% of Lurker research - build 6-9 Hydralisks.
@100% of Lurker research - morph Lurkers.
Spend the rest on Speedlings.

That build order will deal with M&M, since A. you have a better economy than the terran, you can then push out with your lurkers and take an expansion and B. You have lurkers, which can only be killed by tanks. But guess what? You have speedlings, so the tanks are dead.
To deal with Terran Mech (You can recognize terran mech if they send a vulture to your mineral line to harass) then the Build Order is 3 Hatch Muta. Do lots of harass, make 3 sunkens at your natural and ONLY 3 sunkens. Remember, Terran has tanks, so if he sees you build 3 or more sunkens, they can just expand :( . Once you do a lot of muta harass (as much as you can) then transition into Hydraling. Get speed upgrade to deal with tanks, and +! carapace to save yourself from the dreaded goliaths. Try to expand and take the nearest and easiest expansion near you. It doesnt matter if it does not have gas, since you went 3 Hatch Muta you should have a lot of gas left over.

Good Luck.


Apr 11 2010, 8:47 pm DeM)s. Post #5

Very cool, thanks for the great info Super ^^


Apr 12 2010, 4:25 am XGenesis Post #6

I have the same problem, but most people say that the thing to do is usually 3 hatch muta to stall until lurkers come out. Contain, expand, and tech to hive. Mutas are for map control. If T is making mass turrets then you have succeeded in obtaining map control. If he doesn't, harass the hell out of him.


Apr 12 2010, 12:41 pm BeDazed Post #7

You can't control the map just with mutas. Usually, theres two methods in countering T's opening. Usually from a 1 rack double cc perspective, T's counter to muta is 4 rack, while 4 rack counter is straight lurker, but straight lurker is countered by a 3 rack fact, and (yeah, the obvious) mutas own 3 rack fact. Usually, if T scouts mutas (which they usually will. Ts usually always have scouting advantage. so its usually Z thats going to match their strategy with T's move.), they go 4 rack. And Z usually goes mutas anyway. If you try and take the map in that state, T will just out right own you, hands down- pumping out so much rines in a few minutes, your mutas will never be able to get them all. In this sense, you will have to stall and save your mutas (losing them will cost you your game, most of the time), keep harassing T so T won't get out before lurks. always have nat defense, however you like it (4 sunk, or 2 sunk 2 creep etcetc- from time to time, you may need 6 sunks if you don't manage to harass much and lose a chunk of your mutas, and your lurk upgrade is nowhere close to being finished.)
Lets say you did manage to get lurks and save your mutas. Then you're in luck, now you have battlefield advantage until T gets sci vessels. This will only last a few minutes at best, so expand and tech to hive. Get a few scourges, and you may be able to get the first vessel that comes out with mutascourge (Thats if T is completely noob or just being plain stupid.) If you managed up to this point, then T will have no expansion that has a ground route. Upgrade overlord speed and check for island expansions. They are usually defenseless.

Also, Zs will never have better economy than Terran after say, pop 20, if both players are playing right. Also, never listen to a person that says lurkers can only be killed by tanks. That is outright wrong. Any decent T will be able to kill up to 7 lurks no problem with scan and marine micro (9s1a2a3a). You won't have field advantage with just lurks and lings. Unless you're playing a horrendously dumb person, incapable of using a mouse.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 12 2010, 12:51 pm by BeDazed.


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[06:35 pm]
Ultraviolet -- You might even be able to turn another unused unit into a map revealer imitation with a smaller vision range so that you could have both normal map revealers and smaller map revealers. Not sure about this one though.
[06:33 pm]
Ultraviolet -- youarenotworthy
youarenotworthy shouted: Does anybody know of a way to reveal just a sliver of the map? Smaller than what a map revealer would reveal? Or is there a way to block the map revealer off at a certain point? I can't use units to achieve what I'm trying to do.
Using EUDs, you can reduce the vision range of map revealers. But of course this will apply to all map revealers. They have a default vision range of 10. For some of my maps, I've been increasing their vision range to 11 and giving them detection and it works nicely. Reducing vision range should work the same.
[06:30 pm]
Ultraviolet -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: I got an emergency phone call to stay home due to civil unrest :|
are you in Minneapolis?
[01:25 pm]
NudeRaider -- or do you need actual vision (not just revealing the terrain)
[01:24 pm]
NudeRaider -- youarenotworthy
youarenotworthy shouted: Does anybody know of a way to reveal just a sliver of the map? Smaller than what a map revealer would reveal? Or is there a way to block the map revealer off at a certain point? I can't use units to achieve what I'm trying to do.
if at the beginning of the game (as opposed to at some later time in game) is enough, just edit the fog of war layer.
[01:22 pm]
NudeRaider -- as an innocent bystander, mind you
[01:22 pm]
NudeRaider -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: I got an emergency phone call to stay home due to civil unrest :|
and apparently you should follow that advice: https://streamable.com/u2jzoo -- crazy things going on over there. You're not even safe from police harassment on your own property.
[10:01 am]
Oh_Man -- Units and map revealers are only way. Unless there's some EUD solution I'm not aware of.
[09:57 am]
IlyaSnopchenko -- Oh_Man
Oh_Man shouted: You can also use burrowed Zerg units.
The OP says he cannot use units. But if it's not units, what else? (there's a command to reveal the area in AISE, but it's only for 1.16)
[09:51 am]
Oh_Man -- You can also use burrowed Zerg units.
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