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[2017-7-02. : 9:11 pm]  NudeRaider -- I sense sarcasm.  But ignoring it I reply sometimes there's situations where you are so far behind that you can't get back, no matter how perfect you play.[2017-7-02. : 9:11 pm]  Moose -- I'm saying it was probably over both ways, the lift and retreat might have delayed the inevitable.[2017-7-02. : 9:06 pm] NudeRaider -- So... back to my original question: You think it was the right decision to try and hold on to the nat despite it not looking good, and said the only way it couldve worked out if at that point he improved micro and didn[2017-7-02. : 9:05 pm] Moose -- Yeah. At the core of it, Jaedong* just did a very strong timing attack against a build that his attack counters.[2017-7-02. : 9:04 pm] Moose -- Yeah. At the core of it, FlaSh just did a very strong timing attack against a build that his attack counters.[2017-7-02. : 9:04 pm] NudeRaider -- but strategically I expect them to be near perfect all the time.[2017-7-02. : 9:03 pm] NudeRaider -- dont like blaming losses on individual mistakes a failed micro or somesuch. Those things happen.[2017-7-02. : 9:03 pm] Moose -- Shouldn't have even lifted out of his base when the attack started, either. Like, by the time it was down to 2 firebats still fighting 7 hydra, not good.[2017-7-02. : 9:02 pm] Moose -- Like the first medic he lost was just bad ... should have pulled it back, put an SCV in front or something[2017-7-02. : 9:01 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: I also think FlaSh's bunker timing was late and his micro wasn't that great Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: And by not great, I mean for the FlaSh level LMAO  ya[2017-7-02. : 9:01 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Jaedong was at ~20 drones, he wasn't completely slacking on eco not completely, indeed, but still not fully saturated either.[2017-7-02. : 9:00 pm] Moose -- I also think FlaSh's bunker timing was late and his micro wasn't that great[2017-7-02. : 8:59 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: The nat sacrifice he needed to make was before it was built by delaying it, IMO. well of course, in hindsight. He saw hydras, wasnt scared, got greedy. But at some point (the one I picked was buildings at entrance busted) he had to realize he can't go on like this.[2017-7-02. : 8:58 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: If he sacrifices the nat, he isn't a 2-base Terran. have you read the last part of that? NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 I thought about that, but is it really basically auto lose? Jaedong didn't have a lot of workers, and a 2-base terran can do a scary lot, especially in Flash's hands. And the way I proposed it he wouldn't have been on 1 base for long because not losing as many marines as he did when he was sending them 1 by 1. Also half the nat SCVs still exist in the Main and lift off CC for a quick retake of the nat. [2017-7-02. : 8:57 pm] Moose -- The nat sacrifice he needed to make was before it was built by delaying it, IMO.[2017-7-02. : 8:57 pm] NudeRaider -- I just felt like he was wasting a lot of resources to cling onto the nat while not gaining anything from it all the time.[2017-7-02. : 8:56 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: NudeRaider NudeRaider NudeRaider My analysis: It isn't about FlaSh sacrificing his nat so much as what he would do after. Yes, FlaSh could have turtled up in his base to survive longer, but he's unlikely to win given the advantage Jaedong gained. Jaedong has the flexibility to play around anything FlaSh tries to do at that point. If that's turtling it up, Jaedong gets a bigger eco/more bases/tech/probably all three of those and is better positioned to do it. By the time it reached that point it was fight for the nat or die. I thought about that, but is it really basically auto lose? Jaedong didn't have a lot of workers, and a 2-base terran can do a scary lot, especially in Flash's hands. And the way I proposed it he wouldn't have been on 1 base for long because not losing as many marines as he did when he was sending them 1 by 1. Also half the nat SCVs still exist in the Main and lift off CC for a quick retake of the nat.[2017-7-02. : 8:51 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: what does? The pathfinding preview is updated live during terrain editing.[2017-7-02. : 8:50 pm] Moose -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: watch this hydra rush: https://youtu.be/jL1IrI9lce8?t=4935 At some point hydras got all buildings on the front entrance flash tried to get his unit count up, while using the SCVs from the NAT to help. At that point SCVs weren't mining anymore. Why didn't he take half the SCVs to mine at the main, the other half to help protect his ramp and getting his marine/medic count up. Basically sacrificing his nat. But getting an army that can combat any amount of hydras. At that point he could rebuild the NAT. NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: At least that's my analysis. But I'm not a melee player, let alone a pro like flash, so there's probably a reason why my strat wouldn't have worked. Can anyone point it out? NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: I mean high ground advantage + narrow ramp + vision is such a big advantage that 2 medics would probably enough to heal all the damage. My analysis: It isn't about FlaSh sacrificing his nat so much as what he would do after. Yes, FlaSh could have turtled up in his base to survive longer, but he's unlikely to win given the advantage Jaedong gained. Jaedong has the flexibility to play around anything FlaSh tries to do at that point. If that's turtling it up, Jaedong gets a bigger eco/more bases/tech/probably all three of those and is better positioned to do it. By the time it reached that point it was fight for the nat or die.[2017-7-02. : 6:16 pm] NudeRaider -- I mean high ground advantage + narrow ramp + vision is such a big advantage that 2 medics would probably enough to heal all the damage.[2017-7-02. : 6:12 pm] NudeRaider -- At least that's my analysis. But I'm not a melee player, let alone a pro like flash, so there's probably a reason why my strat wouldn't have worked. Can anyone point it out?[2017-7-02. : 6:11 pm] NudeRaider -- watch this hydra rush: https://youtu.be/jL1IrI9lce8?t=4935 At some point hydras got all buildings on the front entrance flash tried to get his unit count up, while using the SCVs from the NAT to help. At that point SCVs weren't mining anymore. Why didn't he take half the SCVs to mine at the main, the other half to help protect his ramp and getting his marine/medic count up. Basically sacrificing his nat. But getting an army that can combat any amount of hydras. At that point he could rebuild the NAT.[2017-7-02. : 5:11 pm] NudeRaider -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: NudeRaider Naw you have to always say that either rway or it doesn't work that's why it's a loophole. And you just used it Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: Corbo Haven't gotten anything from em Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: Then I'd say I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of XYZ [2017-7-02. : 4:44 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Suicidal Insanity I like that loophole. If there's nothing to confirm you deny it. If there is you say you can't deny or confirm. Naw you have to always say that either rway or it doesn't work[2017-7-02. : 4:41 pm] NudeRaider -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: Then I'd say I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of XYZ I like that loophole. If there's nothing to confirm you deny it. If there is you say you can't deny or confirm.[2017-7-02. : 4:28 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- Nikon was running an event here yesterday, I could try out a D5 + 200-500 for an hour for free  They didn't have any 400+ primes though ;([2017-7-02. : 4:25 pm]  Corbo -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: So if I were to suddenly buy a D5 you would interpret that as what? insanely fat $taccc$$$$$$$[2017-7-02. : 4:07 pm] Voyager7456 -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: So if I were to suddenly buy a D5 you would interpret that as what? $tac$$$$$$$$$[2017-7-02. : 3:59 pm] IskatuMesk -- blizzard wouldn't make the mistake of putting anyone under NDA that has any idea what they are doing, washed up nobodies like browder and barely literate interns from china only[2017-7-02. : 3:55 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- So if I were to suddenly buy a D5 you would interpret that as what? [2017-7-02. : 3:50 pm] Voyager7456 -- Yeah but that would tip us off that you're under an NDA so you're trying to mislead me[2017-7-02. : 3:48 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- Then I'd say I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of XYZ [2017-7-02. : 3:45 pm] Voyager7456 -- That is of course, just what you'd say if you were under an NDA...  [2017-7-02. : 3:45 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- CorboCorbo shouted: Suicidal Insanity I am getting the feeling that blizzard is giving SI fat $tac$ and that in order to make him keep the NDA they moved him to africa. That explains why he has lions in his backyard. Haven't gotten anything from em [2017-7-02. : 3:36 pm] Corbo -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: One more: http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/ICCup%20Circuit%20Breaker(u).gif I am getting the feeling that blizzard is giving SI fat $tac$ and that in order to make him keep the NDA they moved him to africa. That explains why he has lions in his backyard.[2017-7-02. : 10:35 am] Suicidal Insanity -- One more: http://www.stormcoast-fortress.net/Irregularies/Images/ICCup%20Circuit%20Breaker(u).gif[2017-7-02. : 7:35 am] KrayZee -- So I'm playing the Necromancer in Diablo 3, and the golem is following me around while pooping a trail of corpses. o_O |