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[2018-1-19. : 6:56 am]  NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider Well, couldn't sleep, just bored, so there's that… Will go back to bed now… kk. Was fun nontheless. gnite[2018-1-19. : 6:56 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: Freakling lmao what was the answer for the pendulum problem? Trivially 0, but with a lot of comletely pointless calculation in between. What would you have expected?[2018-1-19. : 6:55 am] NudeRaider -- CorboCorbo shouted: It is also good excercise and increases knowledge. For example, i just learned that an instant is an actual unit in imperial. And is equivalent to 36 winks. And winks are 12 dwinks wat? you kiddin' right? For the record, I actually don't know, but I will find out later when I take a closer look at your answer  [2018-1-19. : 6:55 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling well not the tendency, but maybe the extent. Well, couldn't sleep, just bored, so there's that… Will go back to bed now… [2018-1-19. : 6:55 am]  Corbo -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: Corbo Had a prof whose solution to some convoluted problem was some linear approximation of some other linear approximation – very convenient, maybe, but mathematically outrageous… Another time he wanted us to calculate the entropy generated by a perfect pendulum… "Trivially 0" was not an acceptable answer for some reason… lmao what was the answer for the pendulum problem?[2018-1-19. : 6:54 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider But the outcome of this kind of social experiment should not surprise any one any more, right? well not the tendency, but maybe the extent. [2018-1-19. : 6:54 am] Corbo -- Now i will probably forget the actual ammounts but i will never forget that a moment, an instant, winks and dwinks are actual fucking units in retarded imperial lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:53 am] Freakling -- I would have posted a complete answer by now, if researching what actually makes for an acceptable imperial unit weren't the major part of it, which I cannot be bothered to do. Just use https://www.wolframalpha.com/, I'd suggest.[2018-1-19. : 6:53 am] Corbo -- It is also good excercise and increases knowledge. For example, i just learned that an instant is an actual unit in imperial. And is equivalent to 36 winks. And winks are 12 dwinks[2018-1-19. : 6:50 am] Corbo -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling the thing is, it's probably trivial to you (which is why I asked you guys) but not for me, because to even start I would have to research the proper imperial unit for each variable, and then figure out how the different units convert into each other because I have no idea how math between °F and inch². math is the same. You would just have to google a unit converter. So kg becomes w/e. Joules become w/e.... etc[2018-1-19. : 6:49 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling I indeed did. The few minutes I was away I realized that my question could pass as a social experiment: Give a bunch of nerds (no offense!) a simple task and see with how many ways they come up to complicate it. But the outcome of this kind of social experiment should not surprise any one any more, right? [2018-1-19. : 6:46 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: I remember my thermodynamics classes now, the one excercise I remember the most is one that they wanted use to calculate how much energy was inside a house system, we had to consider whatever we thought plausible. The house was in a countryland so I just added like "ocassional cows entering the house" as a heat source and drew in a cow inside the house system and fucking aced that test. Teacher actually gave me +1 point because he found it hilarious lmao Had a prof whose solution to some convoluted problem was some linear approximation of some other linear approximation – very convenient, maybe, but mathematically outrageous… Another time he wanted us to calculate the entropy generated by a perfect pendulum… "Trivially 0" was not an acceptable answer for some reason…[2018-1-19. : 6:46 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers the thing is, it's probably trivial to you (which is why I asked you guys) but not for me, because to even start I would have to research the proper imperial unit for each variable, and then figure out how the different units convert into each other because I have no idea how math between °F and inch².[2018-1-19. : 6:43 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers I indeed did. The few minutes I was away I realized that my question could pass as a social experiment: Give a bunch of nerds (no offense!) a simple task and see with how many ways they come up to complicate it. [2018-1-19. : 6:41 am] Corbo -- I missed an opportunity to give nude the answer in something like oz.inch²/winks[2018-1-19. : 6:37 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking. I'm really only interested in the formula and units. For missing but necessary constants you can use reasonable approximations of the likely value. I really don't want to overcomplicate things, but if you insist, you can. I will probably still be able to use your answer. By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers [2018-1-19. : 6:34 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling tbh this isn't supposed to be an "interesting" problem. It's supposed to be a simple middle school physics question. In which case I'd suggest: Define your problem well. Assuming your average idea a teacher might have of average middle school students (i.e. cannot really think for themselves and know absolutely nothing except, just maybe, for what said teacher just told them) the answer is of course: Whatever the teacher just told you (which is probably apt to be "water is a liquid that for the sake of our purposes is completely defined by a single, linear specific heat capacity, only I wouldn't even bother you with half the words in this sentence as that would just confuse you").[2018-1-19. : 6:29 am] Corbo -- except imperial units are so retardedthat you might have to use a fraction instead of decimal places lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:29 am] Corbo -- actually, my math would be wrong then since I used 212°F. Use 211.999999°F plz[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] Corbo -- or ya, this: NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling Well the part that evaporated isn't at just below boiling point anymore, is it? lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] Corbo -- Why are you even talking about evaporation, he did not need the water to evaporate just below boiling[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider Depends on the rate of evaporation and how fast you heat it up! I theory you could just evaporate everything at low temperature. Well the part that evaporated isn't at just below boiling point anymore, is it? [2018-1-19. : 6:27 am] NudeRaider -- CorboCorbo shouted: I assumed no other variables than the ones in Q = mcdT since I am pretty sure that suffices Nude's needs. IRL I would not even dare attempt calculate this without any more information and I would definitely not attempt to do it in imperial units lmao yes. This Corbo CorboCorbo shouted: I assume you want the unit breakdown, its like this Q = pounds.BTU/(pound/°F).(°Ft-°Fs) CorboCorbo shouted: mass pounds get rekt by the ones in BTU and °F in the BTU part gets rekt by dT F looks like what I wanted. Thanks![2018-1-19. : 6:26 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling it's a gallon at room temp. Obviously volume increases as you heat it up. Depends on the rate of evaporation and how fast you heat it up! I theory you could just evaporate everything at low temperature.[2018-1-19. : 6:25 am] Corbo -- Does that mean you did not look at my solution since you have not thanked me? [2018-1-19. : 6:25 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: But even if you start out with a gallon of liquid water at room temperature and standard pressure: Is the heating done isobar or isovolumic (or something else)? The latter would at least make heat expansion and evaporation irrelevant, but would be hard to achieve with an liquid phase material… CorboCorbo shouted: Also we can just keep asking many more questions than the ones already asked and still have no way to solve this. And variables required might even change depending on the application of the excercise. I am pretty sure at some point we would just be asking what is the spin of the quantum particles in the water's atoms lmao "For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking." ( NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking. I'm really only interested in the formula and units. For missing but necessary constants you can use reasonable approximations of the likely value. I really don't want to overcomplicate things, but if you insist, you can. I will probably still be able to use your answer. )[2018-1-19. : 6:23 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Suicidal Insanity that's fine, but I don't see any of the imperial units I required. Think of writing an exam. Just citing the general formula doesn't cut it. jjf28 what do you mean "probably"? Haven't you had these kinds of exercises in school? Is there really no other way than to convert everything twice? What's a BTU? In continental Europe we stopped using those outdated systems altogether: Problem solved! But units are easy to deal with, no matter the system used: Just multiply (and add up) all the numbers, then multiply the unit symbols, making simplifications wherever a shorter unit in the system you are working with exists. If the number you arrive at is too big or too small, scale some of the basic units up or down with the appropriate conversion factor, or just convert everything to the most common/basic representation and use scientific (power of 10) notation (which feels lika a bit of weird and random thing to do still in a metric system that is mostly not based on power of 10 scaling, but again: not my problem ).[2018-1-19. : 6:22 am] Corbo -- Also we can just keep asking many more questions than the ones already asked and still have no way to solve this. And variables required might even change depending on the application of the excercise. I am pretty sure at some point we would just be asking what is the spin of the quantum particles in the water's atoms lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:18 am] Corbo -- I assumed no other variables than the ones in Q = mcdT since I am pretty sure that suffices Nude's needs. IRL I would not even dare attempt calculate this without any more information and I would definitely not attempt to do it in imperial units lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:17 am] Freakling -- But even if you start out with a gallon of liquid water at room temperature and standard pressure: Is the heating done isobar or isovolumic (or something else)? The latter would at least make heat expansion and evaporation irrelevant, but would be hard to achieve with an liquid phase material…[2018-1-19. : 6:15 am] Corbo -- we used to consider lots of retarded things like heat escaping through the ground, on windows, sun shining, sun radiation absorbed by shades... etc...[2018-1-19. : 6:14 am] Corbo -- I remember my thermodynamics classes now, the one excercise I remember the most is one that they wanted use to calculate how much energy was inside a house system, we had to consider whatever we thought plausible. The house was in a countryland so I just added like "ocassional cows entering the house" as a heat source and drew in a cow inside the house system and fucking aced that test. Teacher actually gave me +1 point because he found it hilarious lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:10 am] Corbo -- mass pounds get rekt by the ones in BTU and °F in the BTU part gets rekt by dT F[2018-1-19. : 6:09 am] Corbo -- I assume you want the unit breakdown, its like this Q = pounds.BTU/(pound/°F).(°Ft-°Fs)[2018-1-19. : 6:04 am] Freakling -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: Ya, maybe its in a high vacuum and it will boil off by itself In that case 20°C is way above the boiling (or actually sublimation!) point and the "vacuum" would be water vapour, a gallon of which would of course have a very low specific heat capacity, compared to liquid water![2018-1-19. : 6:01 am]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I'd never heard of it until I took chemistry a couple years go and they asked and I was like "Calories?" based on our food labels have kCals instead of kj[2018-1-19. : 6:01 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Suicidal Insanity that's fine, but I don't see any of the imperial units I required. Think of writing an exam. Just citing the general formula doesn't cut it. jjf28 what do you mean "probably"? Haven't you had these kinds of exercises in school? Is there really no other way than to convert everything twice? What's a BTU? BTU is imperial for heat or something, idk[2018-1-19. : 5:49 am] Corbo -- Does the room have windows for heat to scape to? Are there any other heat sources that would affect the system? What about the observer's (if any) body temp. That definitely would affect the system by introducing heat[2018-1-19. : 5:41 am] NudeRaider -- so, I hope that covers most of the questions. Are there any takers for an actual answer?[2018-1-19. : 5:41 am] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Question didn't even specify the altitude of the water, or what planet the water is even on, smh For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking. I'm really only interested in the formula and units. For missing but necessary constants you can use reasonable approximations of the likely value. I really don't want to overcomplicate things, but if you insist, you can. I will probably still be able to use your answer.[2018-1-19. : 5:38 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: The influence of pressure though is of course what might finally make this an interesting problem after all ;P tbh this isn't supposed to be an "interesting" problem. It's supposed to be a simple middle school physics question.[2018-1-19. : 5:34 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider The interesting question here is: Does it have to be a perfect gallon at both room temperature and boiling point? Because then thermal expansion becomes a real problem. it's a gallon at room temp. Obviously volume increases as you heat it up.[2018-1-19. : 5:29 am] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Vrael yes. Imperial, so 68 F However you'd still receive full points if you assumed another reasonable value like 70 F.[2018-1-19. : 5:28 am] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: Corbo about 20 degrees C or 68 F yes. Imperial, so 68 F[2018-1-19. : 5:27 am] NudeRaider -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: NudeRaider Volume * specific heat capacity * dT that's fine, but I don't see any of the imperial units I required. Think of writing an exam. Just citing the general formula doesn't cut it. jjf28jjf28 shouted: probably calculate the energy in metric then convert it to BTUs tbh what do you mean "probably"? Haven't you had these kinds of exercises in school? Is there really no other way than to convert everything twice? What's a BTU?[2018-1-19. : 4:27 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I saw a thing that was like a system to use 1 password that is unique for every site, but I'm too lazy to do shit like that so they're all just random xD[2018-1-19. : 1:51 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- What's my discord password? I keep forgetting to enter it on my phone when I'm at home[2018-1-19. : 1:18 am] jjf28 -- I suppose the correct answer would be a formula with all the undefined variables[2018-1-19. : 1:10 am] Moose -- Question didn't even specify the altitude of the water, or what planet the water is even on, smh[2018-1-19. : 12:42 am] Suicidal Insanity -- Ya, maybe its in a high vacuum and it will boil off by itself [2018-1-19. : 12:08 am] Freakling -- The influence of pressure though is of course what might finally make this an interesting problem after all ;P |
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