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[2018-1-19. : 12:01 pm] Freakling -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: NudeRaider NudeRaider Basically, we wouldn't, we'd just argue about it for a very long time but never attempt to compute it. The answer has been given already,): ΔQ = X·m·c·ΔT = X·ρ·V·c·ΔT (where X is the composite of any unit conversion factors you might want to use)[2018-1-19. : 11:23 am]  Moose -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: in imperial measurement, how much energy does it take to heat up 1 gallon of water from room temp to just below boiling point? NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: I'm not interested in the answer, but rather in how you'd calculate it. Basically, we wouldn't, we'd just argue about it for a very long time but never attempt to compute it.[2018-1-19. : 11:05 am] Freakling -- So in your reality molecule energy is not distributed statistically O_o. But even then, the kinetic energy of the molecules corresponds to a certain vapour pressure that would force some of them into the gaseous phase.[2018-1-19. : 10:54 am]  NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: Corbo Water evaporates, even below boiling point, even below freezing point actually, unless the environment is already completely saturated with water vapour (in which case condensation and evaporation are in balance). my point was, that only those molecules that have more heat energy than the average molecule at boiling temperature would escape the water and evaporate into air. Those molecules, that exist in reality can't exist in my scenario because I said you heat it only below boiling point. I didn't say it'd be possible in reality.  [2018-1-19. : 10:11 am] Freakling -- LanthanideLanthanide shouted: Corbo plouging would be done in spring, so its the length of a day in spring Depends on where you are and which crop you want to grow.[2018-1-19. : 10:08 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: I mean, miles have all sorts of smaller equivalents with random names like furlong The really crazy thing is that the British (actual imperial system), Americans, Canadians, Australians etc. cannot even agree on what constitutes some of the most basic units (like a mile, for example). But this was of course the common problem everywhere, before SI was established.[2018-1-19. : 10:06 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: What makes it fun is that some.distance units are defined by work done by humans in a day CorboCorbo shouted: Like an acre was the ammount of land tillable in a day by a man on a cow or something Yes, the metre (litteral meaning: "something which measures") has a definietion that is much better linked to the everyday life of the people of the time when it was defined: "The length of this rod".[2018-1-19. : 9:20 am]  Lanthanide -- CorboCorbo shouted: How they defined a "day" is beyond me since every single day varies in time and most likely they did not have time meassuring tools as exact as we do today. Plus mem get tired. So do cows. Did they account for that too in the definition? plouging would be done in spring, so its the length of a day in spring[2018-1-19. : 7:24 am] KrayZee -- CorboCorbo shouted: How they defined a "day" is beyond me since every single day varies in time and most likely they did not have time meassuring tools as exact as we do today. Plus mem get tired. So do cows. Did they account for that too in the definition? Go to Mars, and define sol.[2018-1-19. : 7:16 am] Corbo -- How they defined a "day" is beyond me since every single day varies in time and most likely they did not have time meassuring tools as exact as we do today. Plus mem get tired. So do cows. Did they account for that too in the definition?[2018-1-19. : 7:15 am] Corbo -- Like an acre was the ammount of land tillable in a day by a man on a cow or something[2018-1-19. : 7:14 am] Corbo -- What makes it fun is that some.distance units are defined by work done by humans in a day[2018-1-19. : 7:10 am] Corbo -- I mean, miles have all sorts of smaller equivalents with random names like furlong[2018-1-19. : 7:09 am] Corbo -- I was kidding actually. Lmao but imperial is so dumb that you did not find it hard to believe, right?[2018-1-19. : 7:08 am] Freakling -- Links to Planck time, though. If you want to be really cutting edge, just use Planck units. Makes dealing with the units very simple, but the numbers tend to be a bit off the chart, so you definitely need scientific notation…[2018-1-19. : 7:06 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: It is also good excercise and increases knowledge. For example, i just learned that an instant is an actual unit in imperial. And is equivalent to 36 winks. And winks are 12 dwinks Serious?! Wikipedia does not seem to know about that, I only find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant[2018-1-19. : 7:03 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling Well the part that evaporated isn't at just below boiling point anymore, is it? You probably have some amount of humidity in your room right now, and you are not, I assume and sincerely hope, getting burned, so…[2018-1-19. : 7:01 am] Corbo -- You are right. You might even have to consider hummidity in this problem. Maybe we should make a full topic on ways we can complicate this even further lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:59 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: Why are you even talking about evaporation, he did not need the water to evaporate just below boiling Water evaporates, even below boiling point, even below freezing point actually, unless the environment is already completely saturated with water vapour (in which case condensation and evaporation are in balance).[2018-1-19. : 6:57 am] Corbo -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: I would have posted a complete answer by now, if researching what actually makes for an acceptable imperial unit weren't the major part of it, which I cannot be bothered to do. Just use https://www.wolframalpha.com/, I'd suggest. this is true. Which is why i said this: CorboCorbo shouted: I missed an opportunity to give nude the answer in something like oz.inch²/winks [2018-1-19. : 6:56 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider Well, couldn't sleep, just bored, so there's that… Will go back to bed now… kk. Was fun nontheless. gnite[2018-1-19. : 6:56 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: Freakling lmao what was the answer for the pendulum problem? Trivially 0, but with a lot of comletely pointless calculation in between. What would you have expected?[2018-1-19. : 6:55 am] NudeRaider -- CorboCorbo shouted: It is also good excercise and increases knowledge. For example, i just learned that an instant is an actual unit in imperial. And is equivalent to 36 winks. And winks are 12 dwinks wat? you kiddin' right? For the record, I actually don't know, but I will find out later when I take a closer look at your answer  [2018-1-19. : 6:55 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling well not the tendency, but maybe the extent. Well, couldn't sleep, just bored, so there's that… Will go back to bed now…[2018-1-19. : 6:55 am] Corbo -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: Corbo Had a prof whose solution to some convoluted problem was some linear approximation of some other linear approximation – very convenient, maybe, but mathematically outrageous… Another time he wanted us to calculate the entropy generated by a perfect pendulum… "Trivially 0" was not an acceptable answer for some reason… lmao what was the answer for the pendulum problem?[2018-1-19. : 6:54 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider But the outcome of this kind of social experiment should not surprise any one any more, right? well not the tendency, but maybe the extent. [2018-1-19. : 6:54 am] Corbo -- Now i will probably forget the actual ammounts but i will never forget that a moment, an instant, winks and dwinks are actual fucking units in retarded imperial lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:53 am] Freakling -- I would have posted a complete answer by now, if researching what actually makes for an acceptable imperial unit weren't the major part of it, which I cannot be bothered to do. Just use https://www.wolframalpha.com/, I'd suggest.[2018-1-19. : 6:53 am] Corbo -- It is also good excercise and increases knowledge. For example, i just learned that an instant is an actual unit in imperial. And is equivalent to 36 winks. And winks are 12 dwinks[2018-1-19. : 6:50 am] Corbo -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling the thing is, it's probably trivial to you (which is why I asked you guys) but not for me, because to even start I would have to research the proper imperial unit for each variable, and then figure out how the different units convert into each other because I have no idea how math between °F and inch². math is the same. You would just have to google a unit converter. So kg becomes w/e. Joules become w/e.... etc[2018-1-19. : 6:49 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling I indeed did. The few minutes I was away I realized that my question could pass as a social experiment: Give a bunch of nerds (no offense!) a simple task and see with how many ways they come up to complicate it. But the outcome of this kind of social experiment should not surprise any one any more, right? [2018-1-19. : 6:46 am] Freakling -- CorboCorbo shouted: I remember my thermodynamics classes now, the one excercise I remember the most is one that they wanted use to calculate how much energy was inside a house system, we had to consider whatever we thought plausible. The house was in a countryland so I just added like "ocassional cows entering the house" as a heat source and drew in a cow inside the house system and fucking aced that test. Teacher actually gave me +1 point because he found it hilarious lmao Had a prof whose solution to some convoluted problem was some linear approximation of some other linear approximation – very convenient, maybe, but mathematically outrageous… Another time he wanted us to calculate the entropy generated by a perfect pendulum… "Trivially 0" was not an acceptable answer for some reason…[2018-1-19. : 6:46 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers the thing is, it's probably trivial to you (which is why I asked you guys) but not for me, because to even start I would have to research the proper imperial unit for each variable, and then figure out how the different units convert into each other because I have no idea how math between °F and inch².[2018-1-19. : 6:43 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers I indeed did. The few minutes I was away I realized that my question could pass as a social experiment: Give a bunch of nerds (no offense!) a simple task and see with how many ways they come up to complicate it. [2018-1-19. : 6:41 am] Corbo -- I missed an opportunity to give nude the answer in something like oz.inch²/winks[2018-1-19. : 6:37 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking. I'm really only interested in the formula and units. For missing but necessary constants you can use reasonable approximations of the likely value. I really don't want to overcomplicate things, but if you insist, you can. I will probably still be able to use your answer. By now you should have figured that the very process of "assuming conditions of my liking" is far more to my liking than the trivial process of multiplying any actual numbers, or the annoying process of converting units or finding those numbers [2018-1-19. : 6:34 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling tbh this isn't supposed to be an "interesting" problem. It's supposed to be a simple middle school physics question. In which case I'd suggest: Define your problem well. Assuming your average idea a teacher might have of average middle school students (i.e. cannot really think for themselves and know absolutely nothing except, just maybe, for what said teacher just told them) the answer is of course: Whatever the teacher just told you (which is probably apt to be "water is a liquid that for the sake of our purposes is completely defined by a single, linear specific heat capacity, only I wouldn't even bother you with half the words in this sentence as that would just confuse you").[2018-1-19. : 6:29 am] Corbo -- except imperial units are so retardedthat you might have to use a fraction instead of decimal places lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:29 am] Corbo -- actually, my math would be wrong then since I used 212°F. Use 211.999999°F plz[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] Corbo -- or ya, this: NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling Well the part that evaporated isn't at just below boiling point anymore, is it? lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] Corbo -- Why are you even talking about evaporation, he did not need the water to evaporate just below boiling[2018-1-19. : 6:28 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: NudeRaider Depends on the rate of evaporation and how fast you heat it up! I theory you could just evaporate everything at low temperature. Well the part that evaporated isn't at just below boiling point anymore, is it? [2018-1-19. : 6:27 am] NudeRaider -- CorboCorbo shouted: I assumed no other variables than the ones in Q = mcdT since I am pretty sure that suffices Nude's needs. IRL I would not even dare attempt calculate this without any more information and I would definitely not attempt to do it in imperial units lmao yes. This Corbo CorboCorbo shouted: I assume you want the unit breakdown, its like this Q = pounds.BTU/(pound/°F).(°Ft-°Fs) CorboCorbo shouted: mass pounds get rekt by the ones in BTU and °F in the BTU part gets rekt by dT F looks like what I wanted. Thanks![2018-1-19. : 6:26 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Freakling it's a gallon at room temp. Obviously volume increases as you heat it up. Depends on the rate of evaporation and how fast you heat it up! I theory you could just evaporate everything at low temperature.[2018-1-19. : 6:25 am] Corbo -- Does that mean you did not look at my solution since you have not thanked me? [2018-1-19. : 6:25 am] NudeRaider -- FreaklingFreakling shouted: But even if you start out with a gallon of liquid water at room temperature and standard pressure: Is the heating done isobar or isovolumic (or something else)? The latter would at least make heat expansion and evaporation irrelevant, but would be hard to achieve with an liquid phase material… CorboCorbo shouted: Also we can just keep asking many more questions than the ones already asked and still have no way to solve this. And variables required might even change depending on the application of the excercise. I am pretty sure at some point we would just be asking what is the spin of the quantum particles in the water's atoms lmao "For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking." ( NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 For anything that isn't specified you may assume conditions to your liking. I'm really only interested in the formula and units. For missing but necessary constants you can use reasonable approximations of the likely value. I really don't want to overcomplicate things, but if you insist, you can. I will probably still be able to use your answer. )[2018-1-19. : 6:23 am] Freakling -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Suicidal Insanity that's fine, but I don't see any of the imperial units I required. Think of writing an exam. Just citing the general formula doesn't cut it. jjf28 what do you mean "probably"? Haven't you had these kinds of exercises in school? Is there really no other way than to convert everything twice? What's a BTU? In continental Europe we stopped using those outdated systems altogether: Problem solved! But units are easy to deal with, no matter the system used: Just multiply (and add up) all the numbers, then multiply the unit symbols, making simplifications wherever a shorter unit in the system you are working with exists. If the number you arrive at is too big or too small, scale some of the basic units up or down with the appropriate conversion factor, or just convert everything to the most common/basic representation and use scientific (power of 10) notation (which feels lika a bit of weird and random thing to do still in a metric system that is mostly not based on power of 10 scaling, but again: not my problem ).[2018-1-19. : 6:22 am] Corbo -- Also we can just keep asking many more questions than the ones already asked and still have no way to solve this. And variables required might even change depending on the application of the excercise. I am pretty sure at some point we would just be asking what is the spin of the quantum particles in the water's atoms lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:18 am] Corbo -- I assumed no other variables than the ones in Q = mcdT since I am pretty sure that suffices Nude's needs. IRL I would not even dare attempt calculate this without any more information and I would definitely not attempt to do it in imperial units lmao[2018-1-19. : 6:17 am] Freakling -- But even if you start out with a gallon of liquid water at room temperature and standard pressure: Is the heating done isobar or isovolumic (or something else)? The latter would at least make heat expansion and evaporation irrelevant, but would be hard to achieve with an liquid phase material… |
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