There is already a system that increases the build time/respawn time for interceptors based on the number of interceptors already owned by that player. Actually the invincibility cycle uses the same timer: the more interceptors you have, the longer they will stay invincible for (thus giving the enemy units more time to attack the carrier bodies, in theory).

And yeah, using the booms would guarantee you a 100% spawn, but is also highly likely to increase the spawn size of the enemy as well.

sometimes in game the Mothership freezes the Brutalisk and the enemys stop attacking it. can you make sure to use un-invicbillity on the brutalisk so it can still be attacked even when frozen?
just a small error, nothing major still blows up on enemy units. just they ignore the brutalisk.

^Better prove that with a replay file. Is it complete ignorance?

I am assuming he means that the Mothership casts Stasis Field on the Brutalisk (or on other nearby units, which would have the same effect); that would cause other units to completely ignore it. Setting the Brutalisk to non-invincible every trigger cycle would fix this issue, because it also removes Stasis invulnerability (though not the stun effect).

Also, "ignorance" is a weird word to use there. ;0

Marauders and war pigs are kinda hard to counter in the beginning when you're zerg. Zerglings and roaches can't do anything, except lots of hydras. But till I have lots of hydras, he can have 4 factories or something..

This is correct, and I already have triggers in place to remove invincibility in this case. Similarly, invincibility will be removed from all heroes as well, because it's particularly overpowered when you stasis the enemy mothership and then it sits there killing all your stuff and you can't kill it. This change was made around 2.30 or so.

Have you tried throwing in some broodlings? I am thinking that Marauders are just a touch on the too-strong side at the moment, they can mop up a greater number of zealots with ease when backed up by a few reapers and marines.

Why don't you build lurkers.. He will be forced to make science vessel and you will have edge on units..

Would be nice if the dark archons price were reduced or if you can move it to 1.33 dark archons cause I made so many today an hardly any of them could mc bcs, they'd go as far as mcing a bc or 2 out of all of them. They're one of the most vulnerable units around and they don't mc a sufficent amount of bcs. I had like 30 of them per spawn

DA's and MC are very strong, particularly vs another protoss that is massing archons. The problem here is that BCs have a long range and high damage and kill the DA's quite quickly. I'm planning on reducing BC damage slightly in the next patch anyway (possibly -1 air and -2 grnd). The better fix for DAs is to increase HP/armor, which I was thinking of doing already.

The main problem for DA is that they would MC the goliaths or tanks instead of BC's. I mean, some of the DA's do MC the BC's, but other DA's MC the units not worth stealing.

That was actually a deliberate change I made a while (~2.10) ago to widen the number of targets for the DA's to use MC against. I can pare it back to increase their power. I'll compile a list of all of the units they can target when I get home and you can make suggestions for what to drop. I guess dropping goliaths would be an obvious choice.

Here's my quick list of the MC targets from the top of my head.
Because it costs ~600 minerals to build a DA and a dark templar, the MC'ed unit would have to worth at least ~400 minerals or otherwise it is a very cost-ineffective strategy.

Against Terran:
BC's
Tanks
Vessels
Banshees
Ghosts (not too sure about this)
Medics (not useful in late game, but if you don't MC this, DA's would be OP against Terran)

Against Zerg:
Guardians
Devourers
Ultras
Defilers
Queens (but not Lurkers)

Note: A good Protoss would not research MC against Zerg in 1v1 fight.

Against Protoss:
Carriers
Void Rays
Reavers
DA's
Archons
High Templars
Possibly Dark Templars, but leaning towards not.

The MC should not be casted on Thor, Medivac Dropship, Nydus Worm, Infestor, Warp Prism, or Mothership since that could suddenly change the tide of the game.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 14 2012, 8:37 am by HSL....

Right, I forgot I said I'd do this list. So here's the list of all the units that MC will currently target, broken into units I have no control over and then the ones that I do:

Default targets that I can't change
Siege Tank, Science Vessel, Battlecruiser, Medic, Ultralisk, Lurker, Overlord, Queen, Defiler, Devourer, Dark Archon, Lenassa Dark Templar, High Templar, Arbiter*, Carrier and Reaver.

Units I could choose to remove
Valkyrie, Wraith, Ghost, Goliath, Vulture, Guardian, Mutalisk, Hydralisk, Corsair, Void Ray, Dragoon (non hero), Archon.

Anything not on this list (zergling, marine, broodling, zealot) is not targeted although potentially could be unless it is a hero unit (kerrigan x2, banshee, raynor BC, fenix dragoon etc). It can MC the mothership but as previously explained I do take steps to prevent a player from having 2 motherships at a time or a mothership when they don't have the arbiter tribunal built.

So actually I haven't added that many additional units. I think obvious ones to remove are valkyrie, goliath, hydralisk and dragoon. Part of the reason I added them in is that if the enemy gets lots of those units and your DA is surrounded and has MC, it will simply sit there and die instead of casting MC on any of them - particularly noticeable early on vs a terran player if they've only built marines, marauders and reapers.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 14 2012, 9:22 am by Lanthanide.

Looking at these lists, considering mid- to high-level games played out there, you should remove most of the "Units I could choose to remove" units except for potentially Ghost, Guardian, Void Ray, Corsair, and Archon. I'm not sure about Ghosts since they're not that expensive to produce. (<200 minerals for a single ghost)

Also, I'm sure it was addressed before, but my Silo Brutalisk got stolen by an enemy Infestor and my stolen Brutalisk won't die even if I use a boom so I had to rage-quit the game. I could show you the replay if you want to, but I'm hoping it is possible to fix the trigger for the Infestor.

If it's a replay from 2.51 then I'm very interested in it.

I'll definitely keep the wraith in there, because the reason I added these extra units in was to stop MC from being too strong. So MC vs BC will be quite strong once goliaths are removed, since most people get lots of goliaths. But not everyone gets many wraiths when they mass BCs: so that is a terran counter to DA MC - build some wraiths as well as diversion.

Will also keep vulture because they are effectively the Terran's high HP ground unit (although not that high, I know) similar to the Ultralisk and Archon. So after that the only other one in there is Mutalisk - guess I should remove that, because vs Zerg you shouldn't get MC, so if you do then it might as well suck as little as possible.

Here's the file. It is a standard 1v1 PvZ which I am the Protoss and the opponent is Zerg.
The Zerg player is pretty decent to go for early greater spire units (this is the only way to defeat protoss as zerg as far as i know) along with the right addition of hydras and other units.

I thought about the possibility that one of my DA got stolen by the Infestor and then casted MC on my Brutalisk, but then realized I never researched MC in the first place so that is impossible. The only way to get my Brutalisk to get stolen is through the Infestor.

Attachments:

Brutalisk uses the Torrasque base unit, so DA's will never cast MC on it anyway.

Wtf you all talking about removing units for, if they're removed then we wont have much units to even play with then ds will have no interest at all. Removing wraiths, corsairs, and mutalisk....... This sounds so fkn stupid!! "This unit is too OP that unit is too OP I cant win cause he has too much of this or that" boo fuukin hoo. Its about tweaking DA's not about removing most of those important units such as goliaths, goons, hydra's etc. wow you all are dumb if this happens and anyone plays the new ds with the "removed units" then i feel sorry for them, you don't see units removed in melee games do you?? on that note 2.52 wiill be a fuuking joke seriously, yeah I sound like an assh0le here, go ahead and take offense and be hurt(emotionally)about it, cause my point is this is a very retarded thing to do. At least it will satisfy some of the noobs.

You should read more carefully. I am removing those units from the target list for the Dark Archon's MC spell.

I should think that I don't propose changes that are bat-shit insane, so if you read someone I write that sounds bat-shit insane, double-check that you've actually understood it first before freaking out.

Made me lol so hard.

Aside that, what's the energy cost for Feedback and Mind Control? I think you mentioned it before but I'm kinda lazy in looking through the pages.