Well I wouldn't be against bumping the price of the engineering bay up a bit and giving it 3 or 3.5 war pigs, but I don't want too make reapers too unattractive. It's also difficult to put the price up sufficiently to deter this strategy - to allow max 2 reapers at the current price means the engineering bay would have to cost $417, instead of the current $285. That's quite a jump, although it could warrant 3 or 3.5 war pigs. What do you think? It's entirely possible that even at that price, with the increased war pigs the terran could still wipe out the zerg anyway.

Other options are reducing HP: down to 95 means zerglings could kill them in 12 hits instead of 13. Down to 0 armor instead of 1 with 100 hp would also be 12 hits instead of 13. Reducing damage from 14 to 13 is another option, but that might make them a bit too weak? They'd still kill zerglings in 4 hits anyway.

I could bump up the zergling spawn count. Or the zerg could just use different units, like roaches, broodlings and hydras. Broodlings in particular with 5 armor and 70 hp would work a lot better as an opening unit. Really the main thing is to make sure zerglings are useful against at least some other matchups: if they always suck, there's no reason to ever get them.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 13 2012, 10:05 pm by Lanthanide.

well I haven't tested it and I can't otherwise I would probably be called a noob by teammates if it didn't work(that and I don't have the time for a few days) but you may want to test mass broodling vs mass reaper in first wave. I doubt it would work better than the lings.

Problem with lowering reaper stats is that lings can't even touch them as of now. Reapers' range is just too long and lings often get stuck behind the middle's egg for just long enough for Reapers to get easy shots off. The egg is causing lings to go to the reapers 1 by 1 in classic line format. Maybe making the E-bay cost more will work but why $417? You didn't explain why it has to be raised that much. I recommend testing all the options you have in 1st wave mass vs mass before making any changes since balance really can't be theoryocrafted easily at all. Balance is better tested than theoryocrafted.

Also, putting somewhere something that points out that broodlings are viable would be great if they CAN beat reapers in mass. Ideas include briefing in all-caps@start of it and having it as a message in the beginning.

Because raising the engineering bay to $417 is what is required to prevent terran from building 3 reapers. Anything less than $417 and the terran can still build 3 reapers.

As for broodlings, I noted they were improved in one of the briefings (but forgot to include their portrait up top). I have noticed more players building them recently, and also threw them on to the cell when it is destroyed so players will see them more often and check their stats.

I've just tested broodlings now: absolutely no contest. For $1,000 you can get 6 zerglings, 20 broodlings and 2 roaches for a total of 1,700 hp vs 790 hp on the reapers and war pigs, with the broodlings having 5 armor and the roaches regenning HP. I think they managed to kill a couple of broodlings and lings, that was it.

Probably broodlings are overpowered at the moment, but no one builds them. Maybe I need to knock their damage down from 10 to 7 or something, or increase zergling HP to 40 so they can compete a bit better.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 14 2012, 12:16 am by Lanthanide.

Damage is at 10? I never saw those stats yet then lol.

edit: Nvm. I have, just never payed attention lol.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 14 2012, 1:37 pm by 3FFA.

Yes, damage has been at 10 for a long time now. Recently I increased it to 70 hp from 60 and 2.5 per creep colony instead of 2 and increased the price a little bit. The 5 armor has been there for a long time, too.

The idea behind them was always that they would be early-game compliments to zerglings by letting them tank as HP sinks while the zerglings did the real damage. Broodlings have an eratic attack script so they don't attack particularly fast, and they stutter when moving too. Buffed broodlings also help make Spawn Broodling stronger.

Ok, 2.48 is released now. http://www.staredit.net/files/2203/

Full changes, including previously specified changes:

• Fixed a mineral exploit I spotted in the triggers.
  
• Fixed incorrect spawn count on robotics facility
  
• Mothership -1 armor
  
• Scout -2 A.A damage
  
• Immortals 3 shields and 2 armor, shields regen every trigger cycle (effective temporary 6 armor).
  
• Robotics facility -$50 to $270, Observer -20 hp to 40/20 shields/hp, 2 armor
  
• Void Ray pulse to 12 shields instead of 8, +$20 to $420
  
• Archon -1 armor
  
• Dark Archon +10 hp to 60, +2 armor to 6, -30 shields to 120
  
• Dragoon +1 dmg to 21 (hero remains at 17)
  
• Armageddon/Nuke sets the HP of the units it steals around your temple to 66% instead of 75%
  
• Science vessal -$60 to $455
  
• Terran BC hero -1 dmg to 26/26 (regular remains 27/27), -$25 to $900
  
• Marine, Marauder, War Pig +5 hp each to 50, 85, 95
  
• Siege Tank -5 dmg to 40, -30 hp to 150 in mobile mode, +10 dmg to 85, +15 hp to 135 in siege mode
  
• Vulture replaces Valkyrie on Armory, price stays at $505 for 1 banshee + 1 vulture. Vulture is 185 hp, 3 armor, 28 dmg
  
• Banshee -2 dmg to 30
  
• Valkyrie moved to "tech to nuclear armageddon" which now costs $275 for 1 valkyrie. Valkyrie +10 hp to 190, +2 dmg to 13, capped at 4. Ghost energy upgrade -$120 to $155
  
• Greater spire spawns 0.83 devourers (5/6) instead of 0.875 (7/8), price unchanged
  
• Hatchery price to $9 from $63
  
• Lair price to $333 from $434, now spawns 1 Queen instead of 1.5 lurkers. Max 2.
  
• Hive price unchanged at $256, now spawns 1 Queen + 1 Overseer instead of 2 Lurkers + 1 overseer. Max 4.
  
• Queen's Nest now cost $426 for 1 Lurker, 0.66 Infested Kerrigan. Lurker -5 hp to 160. Max 6.
  
• Spawn broodling cost -$20, queen energy upgrade -$30
  
• Infested Kerrigan 200 hp, 4 armor, 25 dmg, has 'fade' ability where they will briefly cloak when attacked, so attackers will choose another target unless detectors are around.
  
• Infestation now creates a few Infested Kerrigans amongst the units.
  
  Additional changes
  
• -$10 on Zealots to $230
  
• -1 armor, -3 damage to 7 on broodlings. Just a bit too OP as outlined above
  

Sound for Nydus worm is now infested terrans dying, which is just a generic 'boom' sound so not very noticable. The death animation is much bloodier than the drone, though. Sound for Infestor is drone death sound, which isn't anywhere near as noticible as Kerrigan was. It seems there might even be precedence for sounds when in a battle, and drone deaths tend to get swamped out by other more important sounds, whereas kerrigan's death quite often cut through them (since in SP her death would be important). So it kinda sucks, but oh well.

Having played this on b.net (2 P 1 T vs 3 Z), I have a couple of thoughts. Probably need to reduce archon damage to 38 from 40, which would also make me drop void ray shields from 36 to 34 as the archon is the best counter to them because they can punch through their shields in 1 hit and I'd want to retain that. Probably give +1 damage to ultralisks so they're up to 36. Kerrigan should perhaps be 1 per queens nest instead of 0.75, I initially did that as I thought they might be to OP when they come in the first spawn wave but actually they're probably a bit weaker than lurkers, since their fade is not completely invincible like lurker burrowing is and they do melee damage rather slowly while the lurker hits lots of targets at once. Infestation creates too many kerrigans, so I'll need to dial that back a little bit. One guy in that game whinged about how protoss are completely overpowered, but I haven't really got that feedback from people in this thread. The $300 per mine for insta spawn might be a bit cheap: I used it when I had my first mine and had a rather sizeable army. So $200 + $250 per mine might be a better figure, or have a minimum requirement of 2 mines or something.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 15 2012, 5:52 am by Lanthanide.

there should be a max on (MAIN) air units, Battlecrusiers Carriers Guardians because it starts to error up after a while of massing them... and it isn't good. max carriers 30? max BCs 30? max guardians? 35?/40? because I was zerg and massed air and after 40-50 zerg air buildings it started to make error noises, there should be a max for this reason.

Really only happens with zerg air, but of course if I cap zerg air then I'd have to cap the others. I might have a look at expanding the spawn zone by 1 block to help ease it a bit, as well as more rationally layout the unit spawns than just do the quick easy thing without much planning that I have now (too long to explain what this means).

For once, I agree with hellfire. When playing zerg this does happen a lot. But, don't max air, just make spawn area bigger if possible for air. Only problem I see is possibility of it becoming too big but I doubt that will happen.

Weird, usually happens more with Terran and their BCs for me. It happens more with zerg if they go more Mutalisks, since Guards/Dev spawn more neatly compared to Scourges. I've built more than 50 Greater Spires with no spawn being blocked.

Interesting, I just dled 2.48 a full hour ago, and zerg was my 1st priority since the infested kerry's start in 2.48, it went good I guess 6 queens nest= 4 kerrigan altogether, I just looked up on a vulture that has 28 attack though:S, which looks OP I haven't used terran yet for 2.48 so I wouldn't know from here. But other than that not too bad, are queens unlimited now o no?

No. If he did what he said he would, there is a max to 4 hives and 2 lairs per player. Hence why hatches cost less.

Yes, vultures have quite high damage but it is concussive. So it will do 100% damage to Kerrigans (they do have 200 hp though), but less to other units, like ultralisks to which they will only do 14 damage before armor, and 11 after.

I love the 2.48 Interesting change with the valky.

Few suggestions : to reduce mapmax, you should remove the most useless unit/sprite you can.

For now, I saw just 17 things to remove, it's better than never.

6 beacons at spawn zone(3 each sides) X2 for the 2 teams. Just keep 4 beacons at corners is enough to my opinion.

Are the beacon for boom usefull? Just change the terrain color is enough no?

There are 4 sprites (2x2) "arches" (demi circle?) in the middle, are they usefull?

The egg at middle.

The locations 208 and 158 are used? There are weird. Don't worry I won't hack or modify your map. I remake map too (poker def) and i hate people who still our work.

And can you change the title of your map plz? to :
DesertStrike<02>Night <04>2.48 Fixed

I don't know which version of starcraft you have, but in my gama, in the list I can only see : "DesertStrikeNight Fixed 2."
And it's so annoying when I join an old version...

Is it possible to change the name of gas or gas building with the mineral, something like this : xx/xx/xx/xx/xx/xx

thank you

And sorry for my bad english.


EDIT : i found useless doodads. Just next to the gas, to separate 2 zones. You use doodads AND terrain. Just make a line of terran, is enough and free some unit against mapmax . I count 10 doodads like that.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 16 2012, 4:51 pm by topblaireau.

There is a hard maximum of 1700 units. Doodads do not count towards this limit, as they are not units. Now, some doodads do count towards the sprite limit, but only some. (For that matter, pure sprites do not count towards the unit limit, either.) And locations just don't have anything to do with these limits (except, obviously, the location limit.)

And, when you are modifying other people's maps (such as the Poker Defense you mentioned), do you have permission from the original creator?

Thanks. I haven't really played it much yet, saw some moaning from people about terran apparently "still" being overpowered (whereas other people say it's protoss...) because of the vulture being too strong or something. Any opinion on that?

Yes, if I were going to do any of your suggestions, this would be it. But I like the solid blocks of colour they present on the minimap. I actually used to have more beacons here but culled them down a bit.

It helps noobs.

These should be terrain only, not sprites. At work so can't check.

This is actually required for some of the trigger systems to work. It also nicely marks the center of the map: I could use different terrain, but it wouldn't be as visible, particularly if units were standing on it. So I guess I'd need to use a doodad then. I might have a look at how feasible this is as I could probably used a burrowed zerg unit in place of the egg: there needs to be some detectable unit there for my triggers to work, so this would be purely a visual change rather than helping against map max (1 unit doesn't make much difference anyway).

Don't know what those locations are. The only impact unused locations would have is slightly (tens of bytes, if that) larger map file. I don't believe there are any unused locations.

Odd. It used to show like that for me when it was called "Desert Strike Night Fixed 2.xx" so I removed some of the spaces so it would fit on one line. In the map join list I see the full version number. Will probably do this.

If you click on the building it will show you the current rate in the vespene count. I can't use a fixed name because 1x speed has a slower rate than 2x speed.

Oh, are you talking about the rocky outcrops behind the gas vents? Those are pure terrain, no sprites involved (or at least, there shouldn't be).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 16 2012, 8:29 pm by Lanthanide.

if you click on what building Lanthanide? The assimilator/refinery/extractor/geyser?

Yes. Their current vespene count is your mineral per second income. Assuming you haven't been mining from them, anyway.

Also it's real-time seconds, not the in-game countdown timer seconds. On fastest a countdown timer second = 0.672 real time seconds, so 60 seconds on the clock is about 40 real time seconds. 16 * 40 + 360 = 1,000 minerals by the first spawn.

I think it's balanced. vulture hit ground only and people usually finish with mass air, so they are a bit useless.

It is 4 sprites, 100% sure

If the map need it, for sure 1 unit doesn't change anything

2 locations in the green zone. I don't see theses locations in others bases.

Or just remove the "fixed", if it is useless

Oh? I have never payed attention Nvm

Yes, theses rocky outcrops. Some are doodads

just remove all the flags and if anyone moves there units over that section kill it and tell them they need to get 2+ gas to build in ally bases.
It happens anyways when im building and then my probe starts to jump the flags cuz the terran scvs are retarded