@Jack

Ah, it was a misunderstanding after all.. I'm all for weapons having a randomized base damage with a fixed average damage... Like the example you explained (the large sword of death with 80-120 base dmg)
And I'm also okay with sort of random-ish damage.. where damage may vary a little bit, like if I have a large sword of death with 100 dmg.. i'd have a chance of doing up to 110 damage or down to 90 damage.... but then I'd argue that, for anything over 2 digits, the variance is often so small that it's negligible.

I'm against Critical Strikes, however.. Although it's only for PvP's.. For an RPG, they're okay as well...
Altho I am obliged to say that the Paper Mario series and Terraria had no need for any of this.

What I don't like is when a Weapon has a %chance of doing an effect.
Like in Pokemon.. the new version released some attacks that have a 50% chance of increasing your stat.. These attacks are NEVER used and are often HUGELY disliked because they're unreliable. From a design POV, they're also unstrategic. You just use it and hope for the best...
(Pokemon isn't the best example, as they like to make certain pokemon have certain movepools..)

I still don't see why frontloading Numbers would be a better way than Hiding numbers away from the game, but still have them somewhere (like on a website, as you've said) for the people who want the details.

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@Cardinal

Tennis games are a bad example...
No, I don't think that, if I press exactly the same buttons, I 'd like to have a %chance of missing my serves.
And acing a serve should be difficult, but master-able, and should not be based solely on a %chance as well.
A better way to handle randomization in this would be to randomize the Conditions for executing a serve, but the way to execute it will always be the same. For example, we can make it so that the player must press a button at a certain time frame, like when the ball is at its highest point or something. A good design would be to randomly change how high the player throws the ball, which in turn changes the time frame. However, figuring out when the ball is at it's highest should be a master-able skill.

I have to say tho, having random luck in an RPG is fine. But having it in PvP is not.. maybe that's what I'm getting at, and it doesn't really matter to you
Altho, I have to say, again, randomization should come from the mechanics more than from pure number luck.
For example, let's say we have those magic units again, shooting projectiles.. One can then randomize the directions of the projectile, or also randomize when the magic units would move around. This sort of broad effect of continually randomizing enemies and enemy movements/attacks will already be enough for those "Lucky Encounters" and etc.
Like Left 4 Dead 2... the AI Director randomizes zombie hordes and special zombies.. Sometimes @ really easy areas, and sometimes are areas where you go "WTF YOU BITCH!"

What I'm trying to say is, there're myriads of other ways to have your game offer chances and lucky breaks to the players other than having specific %chances of certain abilities doing certain things.

I actually wanted to talk about the one-dimensionality of Pudge.
But I thought that, since you're gonna give like.. 8 Abilities to each hero.. this wouldn't be a problem.
and Pudge is only an example .. There's no sense in arguing the details of the hero, as long as I've gotten my point through - Which I still haven't (or you've stubbornly neglected)

1. No, the numbers are not the main mechanics of the Hook.
Veteran DOTA players may say they are.. but for anyone who hasn't played Dota like 24/7.. knows that the most important factor about the ability is pulling other heroes towards you. All the other variables add to the ability (DISCLAIMER: And should not be neglected!!)

2.The other main point I wanted to drive to you was that the Pudge has a High Skill first ability, which your Rogue is lacking. It is quintessential for a Rogue like Hero to have an Ability that defines it. Your Lethal Fury is just bland and boring, and just doesn't cut it.

Wow, are you ever cocky? Is that the sort of thing you say to people who're trying to help? You've only got Jack and Me typing here.. Maybe you should be a bit more considerate?
I'm gonna go ahead and say the thing I've said to everyone I've tried to help: If I don't see potential in your map, I wouldn't bother typing so much.

Also, you should release the alpha already.. doesn't matter if the Heroes has no abilities.. I just want to get a feel of your map.
If you give me a clean slate like you have now.. I'll have no idea what I can give you...
Also, unique ideas don't fucking come from nowhere. Asking us for ideas without you giving back is asking too much.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 5 2011, 9:19 pm by UnholyUrine.

Here's an idea anyway... it's smwhat of a variance from this hero from ZHRPG...

For your Immortal

1. A channeled ability that creates a Shield - Drains mana
Upgrade A) Increase Regeneration of Shield
Upgrade B) Increase max amt of Shield ??

2. An ability buff that regenerates Mana based on Kills
Upgrade A) Increase mana gained per kill
Upgrade B) Decrease the initial amt of mana required for the ability ??

3. An ability that breaks the Shield for Damage.. Damage depends on amt of shield left.. small AoE around Immortal
Upgrade A) Increase Amt of Damage per shield
Upgrade B) Increase Range of AoE ??

There..
sm synergetic abilities that really fit the Immortal.
The model here is the.. what I'd like to call it, "go-for-broke".. where basically the Tank can make something out of nothing.
Imagine a scenario of certain death. The tank steps in, fire #2 to get mana regeneration.. Then #1 to get shields.. Then, if shit gets real, use #3 to get rid of all the units. Risky, Strategic, and Fun.
Moreover, other than #3, #1 and #2 has other implications.. like basic defense.. or basic mana regeneration for its other spells. So it's not as unidirectional as Pudge.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 5 2011, 9:41 pm by UnholyUrine.