Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Production > Topic: Fall of Ming: 1644
Fall of Ming: 1644
May 12 2009, 6:18 am
By: Lister  

May 12 2009, 6:18 am Lister Post #1



Fall of Ming: 1626-1683
coming soon!

Nations available in game lobby:
Ming (China), Qing (Manchus), (Eastern) Mongols

Nations available for the other 5 players once game starts:
Dzungar Federation, Korea, Japan, Holland, Russia, Portugal (Macao), Spain (Philippines), Shun (rebels), Xi (rebels), Ayutthaya (Thailand), Khmer (Cambodia), Dai Viet (Northern Vietnam), Champa (Southern Vietnam), Burma, Tibet, Mughal Empire (only the Bengal corner of it).

The different nations will have very different play styles.

Chinese:
Only the Chinese or culturally close to Chinese players (Ming, Qing, Korea, Japan, Shun, Xi, Dai Viet) will be able to use the best type of cities, Chinese Cities (gateways), to their full potential (defense capabilities, income, unit production). Culturally Chinese countries can produce "scholar-gentry officials" (civilians), one of whom at each city will serve as a tax collector to bring in income every three years (minutes). Culturally Chinese countries other than Ming are also capable of founding a new Chinese dynasty if they conquer both Chinese capital cities. Thus the map allows for fantasy scenarios like a Vietnamese conquest of China and the establishment of a new Sino-Vietnamese dynasty.

Nomads:
The Nomadic Khanates and Kingdoms (Mongols, Qing, Dzungars) use Terran structures and can therefore, like real nomads, pack up and move their cities. There are three types of nomad structures, the capital tent (CC), military camp (barracks) and nomad camp (factory). The factories produce regular income on timer when they are placed at "grazing land" (machine shop). There is an abundance of grazing land at the start of the game, but Russian expansion and/or the competitive production of too many nomad camps will eventually lead to scarcity and war. Nomad camps and military camps can be produced by the CC using addons: nuclear silos turn into flying barracks and comsat stations turn into flying factories. A new CC can also be purchased if the first one dies.

Qing:
You may have noticed that the Qing Manchus appear in both the Chinese and Nomadic categories. This is because they are a "sinicizing" nomadic culture in the process of adopting Chinese culture, military tactics and form of government. In other words, the Qing have the best of both worlds, they can build nomadic military camps (the prized Manchu banners) and also make Chinese-style units (Qing had been copying China for some time before 1644, and Chinese traitor generals like Wu Sangui lent their services to the Qing putting the full range of Chinese arms at their ready service).

Europeans:
The European imperialists (Holland, Russia, Portugal and Spain) have a play style which is similar to that of the nomads but slightly different. There are three European buildings, military camp (barracks), trading post (science facility), and port (starport). Military camps work just like the nomad ones but different units are produced. Trading posts must land on "trade goods" (covert ops) to produce regular income. Some Asian nations (Mughals, Burma, China, Japan) have trade goods that they might be willing to let Westerners use. Each European country has an area on the side of the map from which stuff it may purchase offmap, like new buildings and ships, will appear (it will take a while to get there now, a vulture going all the way across the side of the map).

European ships can dominate the weak Chinese river patrol boats and are slightly better than Japanese vessels, but the Koreans can produce turtle ships (although these are expensive) :D

Gas will be used to represent manpower.

Asian countries can also invest a large amount of money to upgrade their army from matchlock to flintlock weapons.

Rebel kingdoms can issue Land Reforms (2 armor upgrades, the second much more expensive than the last); this allows them to redistribute wealth to the people and thereby forge the trust of a massive people's army. Li Zicheng (Shun king) did, thanks to the advice of progressive scholars, issue such reforms, Zhang Xianzhong (Xi king) did not; hence, perhaps, why Li liberated Beijing and Zhang's regime degenerated into indiscriminate bloodshed.

If you think the land reforms will make the rebels OP, don't worry, being wedged between giant Qing and Ming "event armies" and at war with both of them will be enough of a struggle.

If/when the Shun peasant army captures Beijing and beheads the emperor (which happened in 1644), the northern Ming generals will defect to Qing and fling open the Great Wall so that the conquerors may restore landlord rule (which again is what happened historically). This sounds like something the Shun player would want to avoid, but the first player to capture each Chinese capital (there are two capitals, Northern Capital [Bei Jing] and Southern Capital [Nan Jing]) gets a non-preserving "loot of the capital" event which will enrich them. So the rebel player is at least strongly encouraged to play historically.

There will be special units like Chinese Heavy Cavalry, but this will be available to multiple countries.. there will be nothing racist or gimmicky. The only unit that will be restricted to one country is the Korean iron-plated turtle ship (devourer), and *possibly* the Shun mobile company (hydralisk) since those rebels had some radical ideas about company-level army organization. I plan to add more exotic units like elephants too later, but then is it really realistic for a horde of elephants to cross the Himalayas? I guess Hannibal did it so..




near-latest version (please ignore the 'stress test' horde armies)


Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Aug 24 2009, 4:30 am by Lister.



None.

May 13 2009, 12:42 am Echo Post #2



I love diplo maps. Especially ones that are full of suprises. Good luck.



None.

May 13 2009, 1:21 am Riney Post #3

Thigh high affectionado

Ever since I got into the Romace of the Three Kingdoms I enjoyed these maps and the fights over control of china. Hope this goes well :P

However, I do belive the terrain requires a little touching up, natural borders, hills and elevation, and of course mountains in the correct spots, else it looks like china. Nice



Riney#6948 on Discord.
Riney on Steam (Steam)
@RineyCat on Twitter

-- Updated as of December 2021 --

May 13 2009, 12:50 pm rayNimagi Post #4



Nice work so far, just add in mountains (look at a map of Asia for help). How will units cross rivers? Have you thought about including navies? Otherwise you need to create bridges across the rivers if there's no transports.



Win by luck, lose by skill.

May 13 2009, 4:26 pm Lister Post #5



Thanks everyone.

ray: I was wondering about that. What do you think? Bridges, slow overlord "river boats," or both?



None.

May 14 2009, 9:06 am Riney Post #6

Thigh high affectionado

Quote from Lister
Thanks everyone.

ray: I was wondering about that. What do you think? Bridges, slow overlord "river boats," or both?

Well you could have a couple bridges (Marked by beacons on opposite sides of the river and air units stationary making a path looking bridge) that instantly teleport you across (You can burn them and build them too), otherwise yes slow overlords sounds about right.



Riney#6948 on Discord.
Riney on Steam (Steam)
@RineyCat on Twitter

-- Updated as of December 2021 --

Aug 23 2009, 6:12 am Lister Post #7



Here's the latest version, hasn't been worked on in a while but I plan to grind on it and finish it somewhat soon. Don't mind those stupid armies sitting around, they're for the city-capture "stress test."

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 23 2009, 6:21 am by Lister.



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Aug 23 2009, 6:17 am darksnow Post #8



well there would be bridges but its possible to burn them or destroy them and such, so its nice to also have a boat also



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