None.
What do you mean by "blind?"
We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch
the medic spell
Ah I see, wow I wouldn't of thought optical flares affect triggers in the slightest??
I attempted to replicate ur triggers on my map and i failed dismaly, I think it would help my thought process more if someone was to explain to me WHY it flickers? I mean it is a fairly straightfoward trigger, and looking at it ingame I don't even loose vision, it just deselects the unit.
EDIT
I have been trying a different idea that is not ideal for ME but I guess someone else might find it useful.
My concept is the hero character holds a "Torch" at night time or inside caves.
The "Torch" is Wraith constantly MOVING (Not teleporting) to the heros location. Now my hero is a marine so the wraith keeps up with him perfectly, meaning he never walks out of the wraiths vision radius and looses selection. The wraith is BLIND also.
In events where the hero teleports or enters a building I have a backup trigger that teleports the wraith to the heroes location. The only problem with this is that you loose selection when teleporting (the hero is teleported into a new area, has no vision as a result and THEN the wraith teleports and gives vision back but by then he's been unselected). I am not sure what other units you could use apart from a wraith, the wraith has a flame coming out of its engine when it moves which could be interpretted as torch flame, (he has to be decloaked for these flames to show) and I guess I could consider exploding wraiths for an additional flame affect (this would get annoying I imagine).
Anyway there is the idea I have now, but I would PREFER to use the spider mine constant teleport idea, it looks better IMO.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 26 2009, 2:55 pm by Pinky.
I attempted to replicate ur triggers on my map and i failed dismaly, I think it would help my thought process more if someone was to explain to me WHY it flickers? I mean it is a fairly straightfoward trigger, and looking at it ingame I don't even loose vision, it just deselects the unit.
EDIT
I have been trying a different idea that is not ideal for ME but I guess someone else might find it useful.
My concept is the hero character holds a "Torch" at night time or inside caves.
The "Torch" is Wraith constantly MOVING (Not teleporting) to the heros location. Now my hero is a marine so the wraith keeps up with him perfectly, meaning he never walks out of the wraiths vision radius and looses selection. The wraith is BLIND also.
In events where the hero teleports or enters a building I have a backup trigger that teleports the wraith to the heroes location. The only problem with this is that you loose selection when teleporting (the hero is teleported into a new area, has no vision as a result and THEN the wraith teleports and gives vision back but by then he's been unselected). I am not sure what other units you could use apart from a wraith, the wraith has a flame coming out of its engine when it moves which could be interpretted as torch flame, (he has to be decloaked for these flames to show) and I guess I could consider exploding wraiths for an additional flame affect (this would get annoying I imagine).
Anyway there is the idea I have now, but I would PREFER to use the spider mine constant teleport idea, it looks better IMO.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 26 2009, 2:55 pm by Pinky.
None.
If you have the Wraith continuously Cloaking and Decloaking (Uncloaking??), you can have the flame be there, but not the image of the wraith. (Mostly, Yes, I know there is a blur).
Try like teleporting it to an arbiter away from the play area, and then teleport it back, or something like that.
Try like teleporting it to an arbiter away from the play area, and then teleport it back, or something like that.
None.
We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch
Teleporting causes slowdown of the unit which is the reason for moving an air unit (not teleporting) in the first place.
ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!
Alright, I'll explain in depth.
First of all, vision updates on the 99th frame. Now, what does "update" mean? It's simple. The fog of war is reset to ONLY be on units you currently have shared vision with. If you create a unit, vision is updated, but not removed until the next 99th frame. If you create a unit on the 98th frame, and remove it, you'll get a flash of vision, then the fog comes in. If you GIVE a unit, or turn on shared vision, it's not updated until the next vision update. A side effect of the cloaked units is that they don't immediately come into view when in the presence of a detector for something like 3-4 frames. However, they still give vision when created.
Let's do a list of frames, and what occurs.
The idea behind my map is that you give a cloaked unit owned by a neutral player to a player with shared vision on frame 98, just before the vision update. On frame 99, vision is updated, but you can't see the cloaked unit due to the delay. On frame 100, you give it back to the neutral player so you have no chance of seeing it. This trigger set will only keep 1 area visioned for the 100 frames (~4 seconds on fastest).
To update the vision as the player moves, make a cloaked unit owned by a player with shared vision, then give it away to the neutral player in the same trigger. This will give vision, and still leave the cloaked unit for use in the previous trigger set. I only had it update whenever the player moves out of a location following him, due to the nasty habit of slowing down the unit, but if you just create it, and let it be offset from the unit, it won't slow it down.
Here's some commented triggers to help you out.
When optical flare hits an enemy, the 100 frame counter which updates vision is set to 0, which causes these triggers to completely fail, unless the spell hit on frame 99.
First of all, vision updates on the 99th frame. Now, what does "update" mean? It's simple. The fog of war is reset to ONLY be on units you currently have shared vision with. If you create a unit, vision is updated, but not removed until the next 99th frame. If you create a unit on the 98th frame, and remove it, you'll get a flash of vision, then the fog comes in. If you GIVE a unit, or turn on shared vision, it's not updated until the next vision update. A side effect of the cloaked units is that they don't immediately come into view when in the presence of a detector for something like 3-4 frames. However, they still give vision when created.
Let's do a list of frames, and what occurs.
Code
1: First Frame, Map starts, all preplaced units are "created" at that spot, giving vision.
2: Triggers begin to run.
3: Continue normal updating
4: If you have hyper triggers on, triggers run again.
...
98: Trigger
99: Vision is now updated
100: Trigger
101: Essentially identical to frame 1, except now we've gone through one vision update
...
198: Trigger
199: Vision is now updated
200: Trigger
2: Triggers begin to run.
3: Continue normal updating
4: If you have hyper triggers on, triggers run again.
...
98: Trigger
99: Vision is now updated
100: Trigger
101: Essentially identical to frame 1, except now we've gone through one vision update
...
198: Trigger
199: Vision is now updated
200: Trigger
The idea behind my map is that you give a cloaked unit owned by a neutral player to a player with shared vision on frame 98, just before the vision update. On frame 99, vision is updated, but you can't see the cloaked unit due to the delay. On frame 100, you give it back to the neutral player so you have no chance of seeing it. This trigger set will only keep 1 area visioned for the 100 frames (~4 seconds on fastest).
To update the vision as the player moves, make a cloaked unit owned by a player with shared vision, then give it away to the neutral player in the same trigger. This will give vision, and still leave the cloaked unit for use in the previous trigger set. I only had it update whenever the player moves out of a location following him, due to the nasty habit of slowing down the unit, but if you just create it, and let it be offset from the unit, it won't slow it down.
Here's some commented triggers to help you out.
Collapsable Box
When optical flare hits an enemy, the 100 frame counter which updates vision is set to 0, which causes these triggers to completely fail, unless the spell hit on frame 99.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
What if he had a computer spam Optical flare?
Like, have like 80 medics, all optical flaring new units. He could easily cycle it. Wouldn't that refresh the fog constantly?
Like, have like 80 medics, all optical flaring new units. He could easily cycle it. Wouldn't that refresh the fog constantly?
None.
In melee, would you hotkey 80 medics and blind a Battlecruiser, let alone a marine? I don't think so.
None.
No no no no no... I mean off to the side somewhere. It was established that it refreshes for EVERYONE. Some units on the side being blinded would refresh the vision for everyone, and that includes the player's marine.
And if it hits that 81 HP mark, it's blinded. So, Just keep cycling out the old units with new ones.
Keep in mind, Viet, that this isn't a melee map. If it was, it wouldnt be posted in the UMS Section of SEN. God knows where you pick "Melee" from. Who cares if you wouldn't do it in melee? This is UMS Baby!
And if it hits that 81 HP mark, it's blinded. So, Just keep cycling out the old units with new ones.
Keep in mind, Viet, that this isn't a melee map. If it was, it wouldnt be posted in the UMS Section of SEN. God knows where you pick "Melee" from. Who cares if you wouldn't do it in melee? This is UMS Baby!
None.
OK I finally got it to work (w00t) but now I have come across yet another problem 
When I go to talk to people within the games, (Transmision) trigger it puts the thing out of sync and I start loosing selection again. How come it is doing this? The Death counter for the 100 frames things is entirely on its own...
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 27 2009, 12:18 pm by Pinky.
When I go to talk to people within the games, (Transmision) trigger it puts the thing out of sync and I start loosing selection again. How come it is doing this? The Death counter for the 100 frames things is entirely on its own...
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 27 2009, 12:18 pm by Pinky.
None.
We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch
Probably because you use rounded wait values (transmissions are waits). Waits can force triggers to run out of their ordinary 2 frame cycle. Try using multiples of 84ms.
If that doesn't work replace your transmissions with the actions they group together: display text, play wav, minimap ping, wait;
and replace the wait with a death count timer.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 28 2009, 1:02 am by NudeRaider.
If that doesn't work replace your transmissions with the actions they group together: display text, play wav, minimap ping, wait;
and replace the wait with a death count timer.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 28 2009, 1:02 am by NudeRaider.
ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!
Quote from 
NudeRaider
NudeRaiderProbably because you use rounded wait values (transmissions are waits). Waits can force triggers to run out of their ordinary 2 frame cycle. Try using multiples of 84ms.
If that doesn't work replace your transmissions with the actions they group together: display text, play wav, wait;
and replace the wait with a death count timer.
If that doesn't work replace your transmissions with the actions they group together: display text, play wav, wait;
and replace the wait with a death count timer.
Transmissions are for the most part worthless. I wouldn't bother with them.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch
Quote from name:Zachary Taylor
actually, this can be accounted for. You're encountering wait blocks. If you add a certain number of death counts to the counter, depending on how long the transmission is, you can always time it correctly.
A 120ms wait for example is rounded to 126ms and then I don't know what exactly happens, but Falkoner proved that it's executed slower than a 84ms wait and faster than 168ms. I'd assume this trigger is continued inbetween the 2-frame trigger check period, thus essentially postponing one trigger checking cycle for 1 frame and screwing up the timing.
Quote from name:Zachary Taylor
Finally, how about you just have the vision trigger run for a computer player, one who runs NO waits?
ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!
42 ms = 1 frame. I suppose that means you can run actions on every frame. I may be able to research this a little bit. However, if the death count trigger stops running for any reason, the entire system will fail.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
Ok I'm a bit confused.
What should I round my transmission times down to? Currently I just use 1000 and 2000 etc. Should I go 1234 or something?
What should I round my transmission times down to? Currently I just use 1000 and 2000 etc. Should I go 1234 or something?
None.
We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch
It's just a theory but maybe multiples of 84ms get rid of the problem.
Just in case your problem lies within the term "multiples of":
To find the right value you basically always add 84ms until you are close enough to the value intended and then use it.
Or, if it helps you, a formula:
Planned wait time / 84ms = x
Round x to the nearest whole number (integer) = x'
x' * 84ms = value you use for the wait.
Just in case your problem lies within the term "multiples of":
To find the right value you basically always add 84ms until you are close enough to the value intended and then use it.
Or, if it helps you, a formula:
Planned wait time / 84ms = x
Round x to the nearest whole number (integer) = x'
x' * 84ms = value you use for the wait.
Well, I had a bit of extra time, so I went ahead and wrote a program that will round to the next closest multiple for you, here it is:
[attach=3241]
Edit:
I also just made a web-based version, you can get it here
Enjoy
Attachments:
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 5 2009, 5:34 pm by Falkoner.
[attach=3241]
Edit:
I also just made a web-based version, you can get it here
Enjoy
Attachments:
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 5 2009, 5:34 pm by Falkoner.
None.
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[2024-5-06. : 5:02 am]
Oh_Man -- because it adds anotherr level of player decision-making where u dont wanna walk too far away from the medic or u lose healing value[2024-5-06. : 5:01 am]
Oh_Man -- initially I thought it was weird why is he still using the basic pre-EUD medic healing system, but it's actually genius[2024-5-06. : 3:04 am]
Ultraviolet -- VraelVrael shouted: I almost had a heart attack just thinking about calculating all the offsets it would take to do that kind of stuff
With the modern EUD editors, I don't think they're calculating nearly as many offsets as you might imagine. Still some fancy ass work that I'm sure took a ton of effort[2024-5-05. : 9:35 pm]
Vrael -- I almost had a heart attack just thinking about calculating all the offsets it would take to do that kind of stuff
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