All the great men I know of didn't just shake the boat, the fucking blew it up with a depth charge.

Getting report cards signed in High School? Lol?

It all comes down to where you're at, in some areas they're a lot more strict about students overusing their 18 year old powers, in other areas they don't really care.

And I'm betting they weren't as happy as those who played along.

Some expectations are there for a reason. If every single student wore completely different shoes and different-color headbands, there would be distractions, yet one person couldn't be singled out because it's the whole group that's causing the distraction, not an individual (loophole?). It may not be constitutional, but it's understandable, it helps the system function without unnecessary worries (Yelling fire or bomb is constitutional, yet illegal; going to protest that next?).

A school should provide an education. That's the primary concern. By 'rocking the boat', you're wasting your time, the time of the school, and getting nothing out of it.

EDIT: Also, of course what you said in that quote would be true, if you define great to be someone who did something out of the ordinary. Saying that x (person who rocked the boat) is y (great) isn't worth anything if y is defined as x.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 6 2010, 5:13 am by Centreri.

Just get your parents to sign it. I have to laugh at you for needing to get your report card signed as a senior in high school though. In any case, if it's a legal document, you can sign it (like a permission slip or something). If it's a report card, the purpose of your parents signing it is to prove that they have read it. If there's an ambiguous area, ask the person who gave it to you. If you think your parents wouldn't approve of you signing it, then don't. If they won't care, then do it. Talk to them about it.

Yes, it's legal for the school to require you to have a signature by your parents. If you don't like it, you are 18, and can drop out of school. It's school rules, and any judge would throw any case out were it brought to court, unless you can give me a good example, because I can't think of any.

You are a depended of your parents, so as far as you're concerned they are dictators. You don't have to go to school anymore, so as far as you're concerned the school's rules shouldn't matter.

Ok... I answered some questions, but now I have some more
answered:
I can sign out anytime during school as many times as I want and claim it is private buisiness. If the school does file a law suit and requires an explination. To my 'private buisiness,' I can use a medical problem to get out of it (like depression).
Schools are under state law of education (or is it federal law that makes schools mandatory?) and therefor all paperwork can be signed by a person over 18 (who is the legal guardian). At the age of 18, you have no 'legal guardian.'
paperwork that needs a parent signature s legal as long as the school states it before the school term starts. As far as I know, my school does not have any rule regarding this.

Questions:
1) does the school *have to* give you their rulebook, and the school board's rule book if you request it?
2) do you *need* a lawyer to sue the school? Or can I just learn how to do it myself and sue them?
3) Being dependent on your parents = technally leaching off their money. How does being fincially dependent affect your legal status (other than having a mailbox)
4) if the school sues me, I can defend meself, right? I don't *have to* have a lawyer. If I choose to defend myself, can I still appeal to a higher court if I lose?
5) if I break a school rule before I'm 18, and the school doesn't call me on it, can they punish me when I'm 18? (say I installed SC on the school comps, but the program was removed before I turned 18. Can they punish me for it now?)

@Taylor: for various reasons, peoplefind ways around rules. I want to leave mid class because one of my teachers makes the class stay after school for 10 seconds for each 1 second of class time we waste. The teacher is the detension teacher, and half our class reguraly attends detension. They don't give a shit about extra time. I'm don't plan on waiting around her class for 20 minutes extra. I'll jusT sign myself out

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 6 2010, 8:46 am by fat_flying_pigs.

Correct thus far . It is good you're learning your rights.


If students aren't made knowledgeable of the school rules and denied a look see at the school policies then you have a court case on your hand.


You don't /need/ a lawyer, but having one would be mucho preferable. I suggest only suing the school in cases that are clear violations of your rights.


Your parents become your landlord basically. You don't have to do what they say, but I would, mostly because they can kick you out (with proper two week notice).


Yes, you can. And yes you can appeal if you lose, there's no saying a higher court will accept the appeal though. I don't see why a school would sue you though. Schools mostly exert control with expulsion etc.


I'm guessing you have signed a paper saying you will obey the school rules. The school can punish you regardless of your age, and if you don't comply they have every right to expel you. If that situation took place then they would have to treat you like an 18-year-old.


Read your school policies, especially the area about parent rights. It should say that they can't hold you after school hours without your parent's permission (and now your permission if you're 18). But again, I don't know what your school policies are, so I can't be completely sure.


Tinker vs. Des Moines what


I've said before they weren't distractions, I even had proof of it. It is understandable and constitutional if the article is impeding the learning process (but I find schools abusing this reason more and more).

Oh man how I despise that "you can't yell fire in a theater" argument. The reason you can't do that is that it creates public endangerment. So no shit you can't do that. Saying, "Obama is a filthy meatbag," does not create public endangerment.

As for great men. I can't think of a single great man who hasn't gone against the current of normality. Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Thoreau, Emerson, Martin Luther, etc.

I hope you are not serious about suing the school.

http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/anarcook/indanarcook.html

Might as well, you bad ass you.

Thanks, Zombie. Now I am probably on some stupid government watch list.

You're not alone. If you do something odd like wear a headband every day, other people might start. That would be distracting, and learning would suffer. You're getting a free education. I'd say you definitely don't appreciate that. Also, how the hell did you conclusively prove that it isn't distruptive? An experiment wherein you have ten rooms, ten headbands in 5 rooms and no headbands in other five?

Yelling fire in a theater creates public endangerment. Saying 'Obama is a filthy meatbag' is distruptive.

Great men have gone against normality because that's how we define great. A great person is one who has gone against normality (well, more complicated than that, but you get my point). It's not worth saying.

Also, I would really not sue the school... you know, I don't consider it fair to steal money from a an institution providing free education.

I would quote, but it's difficult on an itouch...

Can the school system makes all the laws avaiable to the public, but not help a student find them? Just make the paws difficult to find. Or does my school *have* to give me a copy of the rules, and not make me look for them on my own?


@Ciara: I'm not serious about it, I just (edit:) *don't* want to be ignorant, and get sued my self

btw, for all of the above, the school cannot expell/suspend/punish me. It turns into a legal issue sinceit involves federal laws and money, which is why they could* potentially sue.


@cent & sacri: we quantify a lack of disturbance as none even though it could be a prelude to a disturbance. If this weren't the case, anyone could classify a person as a potential disturbance, and the school could punish them. Unless something verbal, or physical contact happens, there is no disturbance.

@cent: many people hope the school system fails/is removed/is entirely privatized. having anything being mandatory lessens the value of it; in this case, schools lessen the value of knowledge. Schools may spread knowledge, but there is no system to check that the correct knowledge is being spread. If schools were made optional, but free, people would be more likely to attend school/learn rather than take it for granted/neglect studies.
This is why a school in a 3rd world county is valued so much. Also, there are many teachers that should no tbe teachers (use your imagination). Getting rid of them = good teachers cost more = becomming a good teacher is harder = learning more = increased value of knowledge. And knowledge is power.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 7 2010, 6:13 am by fat_flying_pigs.

I'll make one point: The public education system promotes an intellectual standard and is the driver of American social mobility. You're wrong. Thank god you weren't being serious about suing the school.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 6 2010, 10:05 pm by Centreri.

Tinker vs Des Moines isn't a good example, since it was a clear disruption of 1st amendment + they weren't disrupting anyone else learning. Personally, I think the whole situation is stupid, and those kids lost out on months of valuable education. I thought this was about getting parents to sign a report card over 18.

You have a few options, the first being the best option:
1. Suck it up, nancy boy.
2. Talk to your parents, see if it's okay with them.
3. Talk to the principle. Explain the BS situation.
4. Talk to the teacher. Explain the BS situation.
5. Just leave when school lets out. This will bring the administration down on you and the class if it is reported, giving you the opportunity to explain the BS situation. The bigwigs will figure out the rules.

This isn't some noble thing, it's about you trying to get out of school early*.
(*relative)

Also, making school non-mandatory would be disastrous. The nation is getting lazier and lazier. While it's true that 3rd world countries value schools, that's because schools grant an education, allowing people to better themselves. Since their quality of life is generally poor, they want to better themselves. In the US, qol is high, and people don't feel it is necessary. However, it really is.

Don't take any of this as actual definite legal advice. It is not being offered by practicing professionals, and should not be misconstrued as such. This goes not only for what I say, but what the rest of SEN tells you as well.

Even if you think you are sure of something, when it comes down to it these issues are decided by the court when you bring the case to them.

Also, it would be an extremely bad idea to sue the school without a lawyer, or to defend yourself against them. Even lawyers get other lawyers to represent themselves. If you are serious about enforcing your rights, I suggest you speak with your school's principle about this detention teacher. If that doesn't work, then consult a lawyer. Make no threats, but demand fair treatment under the law.

Also, Centreri, school isn't free. Maybe you don't, but I pay taxes.

Based on the $69 billion DoE budget and 300 million people, each person pays ~$230 annually to provide for the education system. This would probably include food for those with financial difficulties, and the education system doesn't, on the whole, descriminate based on financial status. It's a steal. Assuming that ffg comes from a family of three, his entire family is paying $700 for his education, whereas according to this website, the average private school tuition would be $6600 annually over twelve years.

Plus, ffg doesn't pay taxes, so it's irrelevant.

I also have no idea why the issue of suing would be brought up, since it seems to be a fairly simple issue of him trying to flout his newfound independence.

this is exactly why making schools optional would be good. Many Americans (and people of richer countries) do not look back at the history of educaion. In the middle ages, every person would leap at a chance to become educated. True, there would be an innitial drop in the overall intelegence level, but it would be followed by a great period of learning. This is followed by the "free" part. People should still pay tax for the avaibility of schools, even if they choose not to attend. The idea of free knowledge is very good. But forcing students to learn things they do not want because they fail to see that knowledge is invaluable is just silly. The easy way around this is to teach logic at schools, but this would conflict with religion.

I lol'd.

I disagree. I don't want to increase the representation of the idiotic poor. I don't want people's futures to be more dependent on teenage angst. What would 14-year olds without an education at all be doing? Something productive for society?

Yup. The ACLU is trying to fight for us and give us back some of the rights that we are forced to sign away in school. A student has one hell of a hard time learning about the constitution, legalities, and local laws, when they aren't even afforded them. It's like trying to teach someone about computers, but not letting them ever actually use one, and then expect them to program a database, and every time their compile/debug fails they go to prison for 3 years... where they are shamed, tortured, and kept far away from computers and told that they better fucking get their next compile right or it's rinse and repeat time.


To the "I know I'm going to get punished, but I'm still gonna do the right thing" talk - Don't complain and act shocked when what you predicted would happen, happens. If your going to exercise a right being denied to you, don't act all offended/outraged/shocked when they push back. Look them in the eyes and narrate aloud what is happening.
Scenario: john wears a green head band to school in support of human rights. School warns him not to stop (which is when you know you're being lied to; they never hesitate to throw the book at you). John keeps doing it. John gets written up.
9 times out of 10: John acts appalled. He gets loud and becomes utterly and completely dismayed by the situation (genuine or not). School says any half brain dead infant would have seen this coming, and he is a liar.
What smart people do: As soon as an official starts questioning about the headband, be completely honest, and recite their own rule before they do (in a mocking way if one likes). 'Prophecize' everything that is about to happen, and don't put up a fight. Only argue when they make a false point like "the head band was being disruptive" School doesn't know what exactly to do or say, and looks evil. Imagine 200 students reporting to the in-school suspension center to peacefully turn themselves for wearing hats.

Was that rhetorical..?
physical labor

That why I'm asking these questions, so I don't have to start throwing a tantrum. I can look them straight in the eye and recite their own laws.

Ok cool, as long as you never tell them that they can't do something, like bust you on what you're doing. The 9/10 approach makes one's position come across as "i'm not wrong so I'm not letting you get me in trouble", but if you can make peace with the punishment and just accept it, then it will go a long way.

In high school I acted like the 9/10 guy, and I regret it a lot. I saw the 'smart guy' approach though and saw it worked. Takes guts.