What exactly are you getting at? Hypers are not "not that easy." If you're so noob to put hypers in the All Players section as opposed to putting them under a player without using any waits, you need to rethink how you do your hypers. Hyper triggers aren't a problem if you just learn how to put them in a player slot without waits. You won't get any wait blocks that way, and you also don't have to keep moving your hypers down when you create another trigger. And guess what, everything Kenoli said was true. Try taking out the triggers for your player two and giving them all to player one. Since in All Players, player one is using hypers as well. The only reason your method works is because you have that extra player backing red up.

What exactly are you getting at? Hypers are not "not that easy." If you're so noob to put hypers in the All Players section as opposed to putting them under a player without using any waits, you need to rethink how you do your hypers. Hyper triggers aren't a problem if you just learn how to put them in a player slot without waits. You won't get any wait blocks that way, and you also don't have to keep moving your hypers down when you create another trigger.

And guess what, everything Kenoli said was true. Try taking out the triggers for your player two and giving them all to player one. Since in All Players, player one is using hypers as well. The only reason your method works is because you have that extra player backing red up.

Your test map does not demonstrate that you are correct or disprove that I am.

Your test map does not demonstrate that you are correct or disprove that I am.

[quote=Fwop_]What exactly are you getting at? Hypers are not "not that easy." If you're so noob to put hypers in the All Players section as opposed to putting them under a player without using any waits, you need to rethink how you do your hypers. Hyper triggers aren't a problem if you just learn how to put them in a player slot without waits. You won't get any wait blocks that way, and you also don't have to keep moving your hypers down when you create another trigger. And guess what, everything Kenoli said was true. Try taking out the triggers for your player two and giving them all to player one. Since in All Players, player one is using hypers as well. The only reason your method works is because you have that extra player backing red up.[/quote] You try to take apart every phrase I write just to insult me. Apart from that your ignorance seems endless... You are the noob which does neither accept a fact nor try to investigate the issue himself. But I bet your pride won't let you admit I'm right. When you would read what I wrote you would find that I even presented the "hypers for another player" method as one of the options to fix it. I know that it works. It's just not the only solution. Thats the point im getting at. (Was already long time ago, in fact) I already mentioned that constantly moving the hypers to the bottom as the map grows is not very practical. Its meant to be done only on major milestones where you make some testgames or at the very end of the project. In some cases you might even not have a spare player. For example in a 8 player madness map where you have special events and transmissions for the players. (No, don't do it. Don't try to tell me there are other ways to solve this. I KNOW IT. There's always another way. It's just good to be aware of all your options.) But there's also some info involved. Knowing that order matters makes you understand better how hypertriggers work and why they work and speed up triggering. That may not be important for anyone but I'm no friend of mindlessly following guides (or in other areas formulas). I like to know what I'm doing. Btw. I don't have problems with hypers. On the contrary I can explain ppl how to solve theirs. So there's nothing to rethink. YOU should think before you post so much obvious nonsense (last post). About your suggestion: I changed it in the way you proposed. I have now 4 triggers for P1: 1x Create marine and after that 3x hypers --- Then the create marine trigger for P2 --- (optional) And guess what happened: Both marines get created after 5s. (ofc only 1 for P1 in the testrun with no triggers for P2 at all) Can you explain it? I can: P1 has correct trigger order, so it works and P2 owns no hypertriggers so he can run waits. Its ridiculous that by trying to prove me wrong you showed your own noobishness. A tip from me: Next time try things out and learn your triggers before you try to teach others. --- Sorry for all who have to read that pointless discussion and my sarcasm... but that guy doesn't deserve it otherwise. ---

Quote from Fwop_

What exactly are you getting at? Hypers are not "not that easy." If you're so noob to put hypers in the All Players section as opposed to putting them under a player without using any waits, you need to rethink how you do your hypers. Hyper triggers aren't a problem if you just learn how to put them in a player slot without waits. You won't get any wait blocks that way, and you also don't have to keep moving your hypers down when you create another trigger.

And guess what, everything Kenoli said was true. Try taking out the triggers for your player two and giving them all to player one. Since in All Players, player one is using hypers as well. The only reason your method works is because you have that extra player backing red up.

You try to take apart every phrase I write just to insult me. Apart from that your ignorance seems endless...
You are the noob which does neither accept a fact nor try to investigate the issue himself. But I bet your pride won't let you admit I'm right.

When you would read what I wrote you would find that I even presented the "hypers for another player" method as one of the options to fix it. I know that it works. It's just not the only solution. Thats the point im getting at. (Was already long time ago, in fact)

I already mentioned that constantly moving the hypers to the bottom as the map grows is not very practical. Its meant to be done only on major milestones where you make some testgames or at the very end of the project. In some cases you might even not have a spare player.
For example in a 8 player madness map where you have special events and transmissions for the players.
(No, don't do it. Don't try to tell me there are other ways to solve this. I KNOW IT. There's always another way. It's just good to be aware of all your options.)

But there's also some info involved. Knowing that order matters makes you understand better how hypertriggers work and why they work and speed up triggering. That may not be important for anyone but I'm no friend of mindlessly following guides (or in other areas formulas). I like to know what I'm doing.

Btw. I don't have problems with hypers. On the contrary I can explain ppl how to solve theirs. So there's nothing to rethink.
YOU should think before you post so much obvious nonsense (last post).

About your suggestion: I changed it in the way you proposed.
I have now 4 triggers for P1:
1x Create marine and after that
3x hypers
--- Then the create marine trigger for P2 --- (optional)

And guess what happened: Both marines get created after 5s. (ofc only 1 for P1 in the testrun with no triggers for P2 at all)
Can you explain it?
I can: P1 has correct trigger order, so it works and P2 owns no hypertriggers so he can run waits.

Its ridiculous that by trying to prove me wrong you showed your own noobishness.

A tip from me: Next time try things out and learn your triggers before you try to teach others.

--- Sorry for all who have to read that pointless discussion and my sarcasm... but that guy doesn't deserve it otherwise. ---

[quote=Kenoli]Your test map does not demonstrate that you are correct or disprove that I am.[/quote] It does. You can move the create marine trigger above and below the hypertriggers and see what effect it has ingame. Of course if you just look at the triggers it doesn't prove anything to you... And as I answered to fwop_ already making all triggers owned by P1 proves it even better. But I didnt want to post a bunch of maps that are all almost the same. I thought you might be an intelligent person able to use my test map as a tool to see for yourself.

Quote from Kenoli

Your test map does not demonstrate that you are correct or disprove that I am.

It does. You can move the create marine trigger above and below the hypertriggers and see what effect it has ingame.
Of course if you just look at the triggers it doesn't prove anything to you...

And as I answered to fwop_ already making all triggers owned by P1 proves it even better. But I didnt want to post a bunch of maps that are all almost the same. I thought you might be an intelligent person able to use my test map as a tool to see for yourself.

I guess you didn't understand that the hypers were being blocked when you had them underneath wait actions, pretty much exactly what Kenoli said in his previous post. I did investigate the issue, I did see what happens, and I told you the reason why the triggers worked the way they did. That is, player two had the hypers running instead of player one (red's were being blocked...). I thought it was established that the waits on top of the trigger order are activated before any ones on below. What your triggers do is just create a marine after five seconds then have the hypers run. But you might not have noticed this, since you have no way of actually telling. Order only matters in which waits will be blocked. Take this map for example. Here, you see that waits are not running until the first wait has been completed (the marine was created). This is obviously important if you do anything that needs to be constantly on hyper triggers (like maybe a death count timer). And what noobishness? Did I ever say your method didn't work? I can't imagine why you assumed that.

I guess you didn't understand that the hypers were being blocked when you had them underneath wait actions, pretty much exactly what Kenoli said in his previous post. I did investigate the issue, I did see what happens, and I told you the reason why the triggers worked the way they did. That is, player two had the hypers running instead of player one (red's were being blocked...).

I thought it was established that the waits on top of the trigger order are activated before any ones on below. What your triggers do is just create a marine after five seconds then have the hypers run. But you might not have noticed this, since you have no way of actually telling. Order only matters in which waits will be blocked.

Take this map for example. Here, you see that waits are not running until the first wait has been completed (the marine was created). This is obviously important if you do anything that needs to be constantly on hyper triggers (like maybe a death count timer).


And what noobishness? Did I ever say your method didn't work? I can't imagine why you assumed that.

Finally the clouds are liftting - lol. Now I understand what you guys were trying to tell me all the time... Well you're right, I didn't notice that the hypers are offline as long as the wait is running. That is interesting. Using that you don't need to switch off hypers while transmissions, they are switched off automatically and turned back on after. nice! The big difference here is that the hypers aren't offline for 10 minutes (or whatever) but only for as long as the long wait is running. That's why I wouldn't call that a classic wait block. It's a classic hyper block -lol. I think its not very useful if we are discussing now why we were talking at cross purposes or who's the bigger noob now. (I think none of us are.) Important is that we finally have brought the issue down to a common denominator.

Finally the clouds are liftting - lol. Now I understand what you guys were trying to tell me all the time...

Well you're right, I didn't notice that the hypers are offline as long as the wait is running.
That is interesting. Using that you don't need to switch off hypers while transmissions, they are switched off automatically and turned back on after. nice!

The big difference here is that the hypers aren't offline for 10 minutes (or whatever) but only for as long as the long wait is running.
That's why I wouldn't call that a classic wait block. It's a classic hyper block -lol.

I think its not very useful if we are discussing now why we were talking at cross purposes or who's the bigger noob now. (I think none of us are.) Important is that we finally have brought the issue down to a common denominator.

[quote=NudeRaider]lol ppl... I tried it... moving the hypertriggers to the bottom fixes it. Thats a fact. Do I have to post the map that you believe me? Right, Kenoli no trigger action called wait, but the trigger action transmission uses the wait command. You should know that. WHY hypertriggers work with 1 wait together for the same player I don't know exactly. But I have the theory that it has something to do with the way waits work. Could be that when a wait is executed all triggers above it will be run again. That makes the order important. I once read a confusing explanation about it with formulas and stuff. Thats the meaning I figured out of it. Maybe Moose knows more. He was actually the one that told me that hypers have to be at the bottom. And geez that man is right ;) so saox... pls follow my instructions in the first post... they will work :D[/quote] Essentially, one of commandments of triggering is: Thou Shalt Not Run Whilst Another Waits This means that triggers wait for the wait in the seperate trigger to end, and then runs after it. However, when the waits finish faster than it would run usually, then it runs faster as the latter coding overruns the first. See, I'm right.

Quote from NudeRaider

lol ppl... I tried it... moving the hypertriggers to the bottom fixes it. Thats a fact. Do I have to post the map that you believe me?

Right, Kenoli no trigger action called wait, but the trigger action transmission uses the wait command. You should know that.

WHY hypertriggers work with 1 wait together for the same player I don't know exactly.
But I have the theory that it has something to do with the way waits work. Could be that when a wait is executed all triggers above it will be run again. That makes the order important. I once read a confusing explanation about it with formulas and stuff. Thats the meaning I figured out of it.
Maybe Moose knows more. He was actually the one that told me that hypers have to be at the bottom. And geez that man is right

so saox... pls follow my instructions in the first post... they will work

Essentially, one of commandments of triggering is:

Thou Shalt Not Run Whilst Another Waits

This means that triggers wait for the wait in the seperate trigger to end, and then runs after it. However, when the waits finish faster than it would run usually, then it runs faster as the latter coding overruns the first.

See, I'm right.