That's an exact reason why AoS games SHOULD leave the choosing of heroes fully in the hands of the players, including bans. It just adds to the strategy and also automatically keeps balance in check.

If people are banning the same heroes consistently, wouldn't that tell us something?

Balance according to whom?
Because what's balanced according to the mapper is not necessarily balance according to you or any given tournament participants or team. Bans are unique in terms of "balance" insofar as they occur during the tournament itself independent of what the map provides... I would endorse them and wish I'd paid attention to earlier TS tournament topics where I could have put in my two cents.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 1 2009, 12:14 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Two things.

1. First protoss is easiest to play, now CW!?!?!!?! I beg to differ. If you go early game, you lose out late game, and can be struggling to get exp. If you go for late game, you have a damn hard time doing ANYTHING early game, except (maybe) escaping some of the weaker spells/ones that dont last long at night. Also, i dont think CoC is as amazing as you make it seem to be.

2. Such a rule is not pointless, when used well.

Considering dota has around 100 heroes, we divide 100 by six, getting 17. Thats approximately one ban per team per 17 characters.

Youve got to consider the fact that, as more heroes come into play, each hero fills a smaller and smaller niche (assuming the game is balanced) and as such, we add about three to give us the setback for when we would be able to accept one ban per team. We end up at 20. If HS had anywhere near 20 heroes, i would be in favor of this.

Also, the reason that any person can argue about any char being OP, is likely because they are in some aspect. The game is just starting, dont tell me its balanced fully!

Side Note: Fat flying pigs, you gonna respond to my post about being on your team?

It also means you don't have to wait on the mapmaker to patch obvious imbalances.

DotA has a fully and completly balanced version, and therefore this is irrelevant in the case of bans and their being in DotA

I am with you for 'serpentine' style picking though. This 1. Eliminates any unnoticed (as im sure there is) imbalances from the 10 mineral gain from random (Norm said his was a good random generator, but with timing and the correct mains, youll gain $10 mins and have a char your good with every time!) and allows players to not get forced random if they cannot decide fast enough due to all their mains being taken.

I think the idea of one ban would work some more strategy. Basically, you build a team around a certain strat and then ban the hero that would cause the most trouble, or you ban the hero you think is the most OP. If the same heroes are consistently being banned, that means that a lot of people agree that he may be overpowered. I think it adds another layer of depth to the game, though if you did do bans, you'd need to do alternating picks as well.

Well...that works except, this is in beta. There might be a strat out there that is only countered by one character, and virtually unbeatable with any others. Although this would be 'widely unkown' ..it would still be horrible.

The team with the unbeatable char could just choose the counter anyway.

Never really understood Time zones. If it's 7:00 east, then it's 5:00 in central right?
Btw, why Thursday?
Anyways, I'm in, and I'll be with pigs. ...Although Norm is gonna complain about this pairing.

Not in particular. If the unbeatable char is truly considered unbeatable, then he will get banned. The format would go:

Team 1 Bans 1 Char -> Team 2 Bans 1 Char -> Team 1 picks 1 Char -> Team 2 picks 2 Char -> Team 1 picks 2 Char -> Team 2 picks 1 Char.

It would be the most efficient. The only complications is this would have to be all done pre-game, making it much more hectic, and whoever gets the first ban tends to gain an advantage, unless it's a best out of three.

Waaaaiiit. Now there is talk of 2 bans?

How about we do it like this: Banning is optional and allowed if both teams in the match agree on banning to be legit. If they want banning, then follow Ultimo's chart above. If they do not, have them pick following Ultimo's chart minus the banning part. That way banning is not forced on anyone, but can be implemented if both teams wish it to be that way. However, If someone decides to random, and they land on banned char it's legit.

How does that sound?


p.s. Less discussion, more sign ups.

@Xero, yes that time zone figuring is correct.

So you're perfectly fine with me and reload teaming up?

It's legit. Just go easy on any new teams ><

Well it wouldn't really be fair if one team gets a ban and the other team doesn't. Though if you do want to use banning rules, you're going to have to go all or nothing. You need to have solidarity in your rules and your regulations, it'll be much too hard to keep track of if you don't.

If you can find a single professional DotA player who would call the game balanced I'd give you a medal. Every team has the heroes they think are underrated and tries to use them effectively. Every team also has heroes they find very imbalanced and either ban or first pick them.

You might end up being too much of an idealist to actually balance this if that's the attitude you're going to take. =p Any hero CAN be played well against lesser players, but what happens when everyone knows how to use their characters well? You find that some win a lot more than others and some strategies are far too easy for the effectiveness they give.

That's a solid first step and I can't see any reason why someone would block it. Hopefully people like the idea and it can be moved to TS tournaments later. 1-2-2-1 is definitely the way to go as for picking, though. I'm sick of people just racing for the most OP characters.

1) xero is in my team (sorry mememe, I asked xero looong ago).
2) bans:
pros:
fixes and "imbalanced' or "OP" heroes (the term imbalanced defined by the players). Keep in mind that this is a BETA, and a new one at that. It's gonna have a ton of imbalances. Don't argue, the previous statement is correct.
Stops players from practicing with only 1 unit (ie: a player who plays exclusively CoM will get fucked).
cons:
reduces # of heroes from 12 to 10. (unlike dota, where bans take away 6% of heroes, HS bans will take away 17% of heroes)
Removes 2 heroes who players may be good at.
bickering about who has to ban first (other team gets to choose first).

Cancel my post on HS thread then.

f you can find a single professional DotA player who would call the game balanced I'd give you a medal.

Gamebattles considers it balanced enough, is that not enough? To make it fully balanced would include almost exact mirroring, which would horriblize the game. It would also include spawn meeting exactly down the middle on the first spawn, every time.

EDIT: BAck to looking for a team.

I think it's dumb that all the best players are teaming up. It's your choice, but your motives are pretty selfish. If you want Hero Sanctuary to take off and catch on, split up and be the head of your own 3 teams. Those 6 players on each of your teams are going to have a much better time than if they were 2 full noob teams getting kicked around. Choose to remain a team and win for sure and prove to everyone you are the best Hero Sanctuary players, but if no one plays the game then that doesn't really mean shit. When Temple Siege was new I would maker sure all the dlers were on my team, picked a bad character, or start with 2v3 if I had a good pner (moose). The first ts tourny I sat out of because I didn't want to be ruining new players' fun, and when I vsed the winners moose and I had shocko as our 3rd, and amateur. Moose made the map, and I've been playing ts longer than anyone.

Then I call Norm's team then. Guess I need a challenge now and then .
Edit: Saw the first post. That was pretty hilarious haha.

You obviously don't understand the way I play HS:
1) any game with a nub in it (not my team): random + try a new build. ie: brute scv (didn't work out well)
2) any game with a nub in it: random + actually try to be good with the ranom character
3) game with fh of pros and/or sen members: random or pick a unit and try

against nubs, i don't try my hardest to pummel them dead, I try to find new builds for the random hero I got.

Only exception is playing SarrahKerrigan. I pummel her dead anytime, anywhere, and sometimes, any team.

BTW, is hatty SarahKerrigan?

And hp SCV is awesome...

No, hatty and Sarah are two different people.
Hatty>Sarah though