Turret shouldn't get anything.

In fact, S2 should just stop designing heroes. They are like 3/12 with balance.

Maliken, Puppet, Engineer---> all still imba.

hey, forsaken archer as of now is perfectly fine. Engineer's turret would be terrible with no items, maybe just giving it half the power of all the items engineer has would be good enough.

I think S2 should stop trying to port over so many DotA Heroes and just make their own Heroes. I f*cking hate DotA, and it's not well-balanced to begin with. It's balance relies entirely on meta-game. I think I'd rather go to WarCraft II than DotA.
/sarcasm

S2's Heroes are fine; stop thinking that HoN is DotA.

i dont think its that some heroes are imba, but that other heroes are under powered

S2Games, while the heroes come out imbalanced at first, it's only because they have no prior knowledge of how it's going to work. When porting DotA heroes, they know how it's played and how imba/nerfed it is. You can't really call them bad hero makers.

They haven't balanced Puppet or Maliken yet, so... However, props for them balancing Magebane and Dark Lady (even though her ult is dumb). Arachna and Madman are nice too. But still, Puppet/Maliken have been broken for a while.

Anyway, this is for Devlin, but anyone else is welcome to discuss. No one will ever agree on a tier list, this is my personal thoughts from about a month ago. Since then I've mentally bumped Puppet and Maliken to 1, debating dropping Sand Wraith, obviously add Engineer at 1 because he's broken as shit, and bump Legion/Nymph/Arachna +1. Vindicator maybe +1 just because of the initiation metagame. Other than that seems pretty solid to me.

If they ever beef Pharaoh up a bit, let me know. I might come back and play.

i dunno about putting kraken at tier 2. In my experience, the only good spell he has that gets a lot of usefulness is his ult.

I dont like the whole ttier thing as much either, i'd rather have it be, like, 4 tiers, because there are a lot of heroes you have in there that are just hard to play, but if played well, dominate any game they're in, like zephyr. I played against a zephyr that i literally could not kill because he farmed well enough early game, and became unstoppable.

He's tier 2 because the meta-game right now is ALL about intiation and AoE basically.

i think swiftblades ultimate is a tad bit of amazing. i went 22-2-8 or something with him, cause i got so many kills with his ultimate early game.

Nullfire Blade > Zephyr. If you let any carry get fed he'll dominate lategame, that doesn't make the hero good, that just means you guys played badly. Any hero in my tier 6 other than Blacksmith can easily carry a pub, but I don't expect to see one carry a high level game ever.

Stand next to creeps. Tada, Swiftblade is useless.


Basically a good team composition right now is guaranteed to have one, sometimes two good initiation heroes. Kraken is in my opinion the best in the game. His slow aura also allows him to be powerful in a lane when combined with a lot of heroes, at least in my experience. I haven't seen any high level players use this style with him yet though.

Pharaoh is a very common pick in top level games, he won't be getting buffed anytime soon. Staff of the Master on him is so powerful.

about your tier ratings, is 6= wat all heroes are suppose to be or does 3= wat heroes are suppose to be and the rest of the heroes are either op or under buffed

Heroes should ideally be 3.5 I guess, since I have 6 tiers. I wouldn't really care if every hero got buffed to Tier 1 or nerfed to Tier 6, though, as long as all heroes are equally viable.

for some odd reason i dont see S2 nerfing or buffing any great number of heroes

This is not a one time occurence dude. I've played zeph myself against a good team. I went and jungled well, and their team was ahead of our by about 5, it was like 10-15 when i came out of the jungle. I then proceeded to dominate their team because i had farmed a hotbl and shamans headdress, and could tank their whole team while the tornadoes raped them. Really this happens a lot in my experience. And nullfire 1. does not stop his tornadoes, and 2. is an expense that many can't get by the time zeph is farmed enough to own them.

Quote from name:Raccoon

i think swiftblades ultimate is a tad bit of amazing. i went 22-2-8 or something with him, cause i got so many kills with his ultimate early game.

Try carrying late game as Swiftblade versus a competent carry, I'll guarantee you'll lose every time. He loses so much power late game, with zero stun or chasing ability, and the fact that you can't control his ultimate, he'll be raped by sandwraith/magebane/maliken in no time.

Quote from ShredderIV

Quote

Nullfire Blade > Zephyr. If you let any carry get fed he'll dominate lategame, that doesn't make the hero good, that just means you guys played badly. Any hero in my tier 6 other than Blacksmith can easily carry a pub, but I don't expect to see one carry a high level game ever.

This is not a one time occurence dude. I've played zeph myself against a good team. I went and jungled well, and their team was ahead of our by about 5, it was like 10-15 when i came out of the jungle. I then proceeded to dominate their team because i had farmed a hotbl and shamans headdress, and could tank their whole team while the tornadoes raped them. Really this happens a lot in my experience. And nullfire 1. does not stop his tornadoes, and 2. is an expense that many can't get by the time zeph is farmed enough to own them.

Except you drop like a pile of bricks without your evasion skill. Just because nullfire is expensive doesn't stop people from getting it, the support will get it to counter you, because lategame, it's carry vs carry, and you need to do anything to stop the other carry. Zeph does not become useful until you farm a Mock, until then, he can easily be crowd-controlled or straight out ignored. The tornados are good, but you need to be right beside peopel for it to do any real damage, and most classes can keep Zeph away. The fact that you lose tornados when you TP also makes him useless. Zeph is decent, but he is a terrible carry, or fails at trying to be a carry.

yeah, except tier=/= carry. He has the ability to carry somewhat, but i sgree, he's much much better at crowd control. He can also do a lot of damage in frantic team battles.

What do you mean? He is low tier because he fails to differentiate himself from other sub-par heroes, he doesn't make the best tank or carry, so why pick him when you can pick a better carry in Sandwraith or a better tank in Legionnaire?

i think zephyr may be the biggest KSer ever excluding thunder and alll those 1 hit nuke kill heroes. just standing there in the middle of the fight he gets like 30% of all the kills

OMG THEY FINALLY FIXED KEEPER I THINK I JUST HAD A FREAKING HEART ATTACK!

TREES: TRUESIGHT!
NATURE'S VENGEANCE REPLACED!
CAMOFLAGUE DOESNT BREAK WHEN ANOTHER SKILL IS USED!

On another note, apparently the final heroe before release will be some dude named deadwood... He'll probably wind up being like keeper's evil cousin or something.

And also BOOBOO WAS FREAKING RENAMED TO BEARLDULON?