Edit: I guess I should mention, I created this topic because of a conversation that started from the Captain's political compass topic.

What are your opinions of unions? Before you start, you should start by telling us what country you're talking about. I'm relatively sure each country has its own "union laws." Every state might. I don't know. I'm in Colorado, US.

I hate unions. I think the idea is a debilitating crutch. The only experience I have is with the compulsory union my boyfriend joined upon getting a job at a grocery store. It failed him utterly. In the idea of a union's defense, this particular one is corrupt beyond all means. But this isn't about him. Unions were created to help equal rights for workers, correct? What is so equally right about forcing someone to join a union in order to work someplace? Maybe if the union wasn't compulsory, there would have been more drive to create a better environment. I cannot say for sure. What I do know is this: if your union boss declares a strike, and you are part of a union, you are not allowed to work. At all. And with so many unemployed workers willing to scab, it might be a long time before you see that next paycheck. A friend and I almost applied to scab at a nearby grocer, just to piss off union workers on strike out front. Maybe the union is picketing for better wages. I'm sorry, but unskilled labor for $12 an hour? I don't see who could complain. Or how. And if they got what they wanted, the price of the food we need would have gone up in price exponentially. I don't see how this benefits anyone.

I hope this doesn't sound too much like a rant. I really don't see the point of unions in America anymore. As one of my favorite Simpsons quotes of all time says...


So, what are your opinions? Are unions ethical or needed?

The problem with unions is that they are all or nothing. A companies employees are either unionized or not. If it is unionized, you have to pay the dues and join the union whether or not you want to. And as the saying goes, "absolute power corrupts absolutely." And then you end up with the UAW, who negotiates contracts. so that GM has factories filled with workers playing cards because they have no work to do. They've become a special interest in themselves. And politicians are happy to give them whatever they want because "they're helping the working man." And laws of questionable value to the working man are passed because the union wanted it, and whats good for the union is good for the working man. Always.

I will perhaps think about this some more later, but for now I'll say something. Talking about the UK and unions in general here.

Trade Unions are one of the main reasons why we, as workers, enjoy certain rights which we have today. Safety standards, minimum wage laws and the like have often been influenced heavily by the action of unions. In the past, before the welfare state, unions also acted as a kind of insurance for workers, providing various types of aid in return for contributions to the union.

However, unions feel archaic today and there have been times when they were simply too powerful. 1960s and 70s Britain is a good example, when things were operated overwhelmingly on a closed shop basis. Strikes would happen frequently and there were some winters when power workers went on strike at certain times of day, cutting off the electricity and heating supply to thousands of homes. In the winter of 1978-9, a majority of public sector workers went on strike over government attempts to freeze wages in order to fight inflation. Gravediggers and garbage collectors joined in, leaving unburied dead and rubbish piling up.

Margaret Thatcher crushed the unions in the 1980s with various hardline measures. It was probably not a bad thing as the unions had too much influence and were helping to weaken the UK economy.

My opinion is that these days unions have a diminishing role to play in the workplace, and they should not be allowed to become too powerful. However, we shouldn't forget the good aspects of their legacy.

But you agree that they are no longer needed today? Not that the formation of unions should be abolished, but that most unions have outlived their purpose and are doing more harm than good?

I agree that Unions have outlived their purpose. But the original role they took should live on in another form- since problems arise practically everyday.

My sister and her boyfriend are high school teachers, both members of their Teachers' Union.

Teachers (in the United States, or at least in Massachusetts) are given "Professional Status" when entering their 4th year of teaching. Simply put, this gives you job safety above all non-"Professionals." I asked them after those initial years what the impetus was for doing a good job, beyond personal satisfaction. Their answer: ... personal satisfaction.

Everyone in the union negotiates together: they get the same raise per year, the same job benefits, the same medical coverage, etc. Incredible teachers who intellectually challenge you and give you motivation to learn and to be educated earn nothing more at the end of the day than the shitty teacher who comes to class drunk every Friday. Except they're spending far more of their own personal time doing the job that should be required, getting nothing for it.

What does this lead to? Very obviously: low standards and a lack of accountability. Not to mention a vastly undereducated populace.



I then asked what the point was in being in the union, "it's not required, is it?" Yes, it's not required. Yes, you have to be in it. Failing to join the union singles you out: you're an individual negotiator who's likely to be easily replaceable. "Why are you causing all of these problems, do you think you're better than us?" You'd also have to represent yourself if the school was taken to court, rather than being under the wing of the Teachers' Union.

To me, this calls for an "Anti-Union Union" by the extraordinary teachers who are fed up with earning the same as the teacher who gives checks and check pluses for research papers. I tend to be somewhat of a dreamer though, and look at things more realistically only after I've leaped.


I can't say that I know how similarly well Unions work in other job fields, so I can't and won't speak for them. But after those conversations with my sister and some with the head of the Union's contract negotiation team (and English department) at my high school, my feelings are that unions are a safety net for the inadequate.

Good post, FaZ. I like your conclusion about unions being a safety net for the inadequate, though I think a separate union for better teachers would cause more problems than it solves.

In response to dumbducky: I think unions still have a purpose (representing workers in unfair dismissal cases etc.) but that they are nowhere near as important as they were in the past and help contribute to inflation.

I don't think unions should be completely banned from existence, but no unions would certainly be a better more unions. But Faz pretty much hit the nail on the head. Most unions simply guarantee employment despite inadequacy to the most extreme levels. Unions eventually become a parasite on a company's competitiveness and survivability.