Hey, I'm kind of new to this forum, so I’m sorry if I repeat anything but I have a lot of ideas and concepts about religion, politics, and life in general, and I definitely want some input and your thoughts.

I’m sure all of you have heard of the rumored apocalypse that will happen in 2012, I don’t really believe it, but from my interpretation, the Mayans predicted that the world would end on December 21st of 2012 from Sun Spots.

The Solar Cycle:
I don’t know how much you know about the sun cycle, but every 11 years the sun has a pattern of increased sun spots which send solar winds to Earth. Every eleven years there is a solar max, the last one was 2001, and so the Mayans could at least predict the next Solar Max that far into the future. Solar winds (again from my interpretation and what I've learned) send a quick increase in heat and have an EMP like effect on the exposed side of the Earth. The O-Zone acts as a shield to the winds, which we all know is constantly weakening. There was a movie called "The Core," kind of dumb movie in my opinion, but it showed a hypothesized effect of the Earth having no O-zone when a solar wind hit. (This was the part when San Francisco caught on fire) I don't know if any of you remember the last solar max, 2001, as being a particularly bad forest fire year, but living in the middle of the mountains of Montana, I definitely did.

The Balancing Force of Nature:
One major belief I have is that nature, basically anything not made by man, is in a constant evolution towards balance. This is a pretty easy concept to grasp, but humans are the complete opposite of nature, we have built cities, civilizations, and we can basically do what ever we want with the Earth. A good example of this is forests. In nature, once a forest gets too wild, it burns, and then new foliage grows from the ashes. Now as man has become more powerful, we can now stop these forest fires, and we do so because we depend on them for many aspects of our lives. So naturally, the forests now grow older and wilder than they should, and they definitely contain more fuel than natural. Because we are getting so skilled at preventing nature from running its course, Natural Evolution has brought the pine beetle into power. Hopefully you have heard of the epidemic that is sweeping the Rocky Mountains, but a certain species of pine beetle is rapidly wiping out mass amounts of lodge pole pines. I believe the outbreak started in Colorado, and is spreading through the thick forests all the way to Canada, killing off about half the trees everywhere in between. Once a tree is dead it takes a while to fall, in the mean time it stands tall with dead needles, like a match ready to spread to the tops of the surrounding trees. I guess what I’m trying to say is that because we stopped the forests from restarting and continuing their natural cycle, evolution has now created an inevitable situation that will create an unnaturally large, uncontrollable fire.

Conclusion:
Let me restate that 2001, the last solar max was one of the worst recorded forest fire years ever, and in the last 8 years, the Earth has become hotter, the O-zone has became weaker, and the pine beetle has wiped out about half the trees, leaving perfect situation for a massive, catastrophic wild fire. There are 3 years until the next solar max, when that happens, this nation wide forest fire will be inevitable.

I don’t know about the rest of the world, but in my own environment I can see the inevitable, it’s not quite the apocalypse, but things will definitely never be the same.


Please post your thoughts, and if any of my information is incorrect, please tell me.

What happens if you take this into account:

Man is concerned about his future on Earth
Man has the ability to affect the status of Earth

=> Man may work to prevent the end, and possibly balance out those negative forces you mentioned.

Also, I suggest you edit your title. "Is the end really coming" tends to imply the end of the earth, and what you're talking about is simply an alteration of the current ecosystem. If you're somehow implying that an alteration of the current ecosystem implies the end of the earth, then I suggest you substantiate that implication.

Be pretty hilarious if the world ended because man was trying to save the Earth.

On a different note, I hate doomsday theories. All the doomsday theories we have ended up being wrong and I don't think the Mayan Calendar is going to be any different. I think the only thing that would change on that date would be the attitude of the people (probably paranoid if they've been dwelling on it) if even that.

Honestly I dont know the truth behind this, but does the Mayan Calendar say "End of the world" near 2012? Or did they just get lazy chizziling stone that they just STOPPED.

But I agree, 2012 wont be the same, I dunno if nature will be the cause, but something will do it.

The second. Mayan Calendar ends that day.

I don't believe that world end on 2012. I think Mayans were conquered that days while they were sculpting the Mayan Calendar, and they didn't really finished because spanish people prohibited them. Wacky theory, isn't it?

Indeed, the solar winds burned many forests in 2001. Maybe Mayans knew or calculated that the 2012 solar wind would be catastrophic for them (They lived between huge, very wild forests), and perhaps that the reason. Perhaps they are godlike. Who knows?

Thats my take on the whole thing. The end of the world has been a hoax before, I belive someone will attempt to use it again to gain something on a more personal level.

You cannot stop the uninevitable, but if the inenvitable is questionable, is it able to be stopped?

Or is it superstition?

That was more or less my point.

The magnetic pole of the earth is suppose to shift on that date. It'll make things pretty screwy and all the stupid people are going to resort to destruction and savagery out of fear, and many people will die. The world won't actually come to an end, rather just a dramatic shift in the world that will gravely affect many humans. Hopefully, a period of reform can happen among the remaining people. (I'm hoping to survive =)) There has been a study showing how the magnetic poles have shifted before, and they are due to shift again. (It's posted online somewhere, but i must go do stuff now so I can't find it for you.)

The Mayans did not just get lazy or get conquered; they believe the world has ended before and will restart once again. It has five cycles and four have passed already. The next one is on December 21st, 2012. That day marks when the Earth will be extremely close conjunction of the Winter Solstice Sun with the crossing point of the Galactic Equator (Equator of the Milky Way) and the Ecliptic (path of the Sun)

They calculated the Venus cycle, called the Birth of Venus and somehow came up with a starting date of August 13, 3114 BC. A baktun was a time period of 144,000 days and when the 13th baktun passed the world will appearently end.

Here is the list for each baktun date.
0/ August 11, 3114 BCE
1/ November 13, 2720 BCE
2/ February 16, 2325 BCE
3/ May 21, 1931 BCE
4/ August 23, 1537 BCE
5/ November 26, 1143 BCE
6/ February 28, 748 BCE
7/ June 3, 354 BCE
8/ September 5, 41 CE
9/ December 9, 435
10/ March 13, 830
11/ June 15, 1224
12/ September 18, 1618
13/ December 21, 2012

I think the Mayans were very advanced for there time, but not advanced enough to predict the end. I do believe that day will cause some electrical failures because of the sun acting up and the magnetic poles are supposed to switch.

From what I know on this: The Mayans never said that the world would end, or that it would be reborn again (though I'm more able to believe this one), but that something big was going to happen. Again this is what I understand, but 21st 2012 is going to be when all the planets align up with the sun and go "full circle" I guess you would say.

Being a Christian I have nothing against thinking that this may be something big. In fact I've heard some decent Christian thoughts on this idea. If you look at it the Mayans weren't a bunch of idiots who couldn't pour water out of a bowl with instructions on the bottom. They have the most accurate calender, and along with that many other things that we consider very important in our education today. (I can't think of any off the top of my head, I apologize)

Null?

No, I do not think the world will end that day, nor do I think that riots will pursue. An extra sunny day with a few weird things happening, that is all. I didn't even know about the Y2K scare, didn't hurt me.

These things should stay in chain mail, far away from science.

I'm reading "The Quirks and Quarks Question Book" right now, published in 2002, copyright Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. It would be unfortunate if I was wrong in following this book. But anyway, here is its passage in dealing with reversing poles, explained in my own words.

Anyway, I disapprove of your theory that sh*t will hit the fan like you said.

Earth can be described to be like a bar magnet, with N and S poles. Throughout Earth's history though, N and S have flipped hundreds of times. According to this book, the last flipping was approximately 780 000 years ago. During the flip, the Earth's overall MF strength drops to about 10%. The process will take about 4 000 years to complete, a geologically short time period.

Anyway, during the actual flipping and weak magnetosphere the worst that you'll actually get is probably more frequent geomagnetic storms (wiki it) and a rise in radiation poisoning statistics. People aren't going to riot and civilizations aren't going to fall, and of course the human race will persevere. I mean, look at it this way. It's not like we don't have the capabilities of defending ourselves from solar winds. We can deal with gamma rays and microwaves and etc. Besides, our species have survived previous ones before, so why not now?

Geomagnetic storms can knock out power grids, increase corrosion rates in pipelines, increased atmospheric density because of increased amounts of hot air leading to prematurely falling satellites, screwed up low-frequency radio signals, and communication networks.

Life will return to something like a cross between 200 years ago and 100 years ago, but we'll still have a crap load of stuff to survive through it.

I seriously doubt any mass extinctions will occur and civilization will eat itself. By the time 2012 actually comes, our understanding of science could have changed dramatically and none of this would happen.

But you know what, I'm looking forwards to a 2012. I bet it'll be better than today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_prediction

Also, http://www.staredit.net/topic/530/

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 20 2009, 1:01 am by Mini Moose 2707.

According to mayans the earth was going to go through 5 cycles before being destroyed, us being in the 3rd cycle right now if I am not mistaken. The next cycle would begin where the mayan calendar ends on december 2012.

Corbo, if you're using a phrase like "if I am not mistaken" that should throw up a warning flag that you need this:
If you had read the topic you would have seen what Morphling has already posted regarding these cycles (though he didn't provide citation either, but at least he has substance in his post).

Secondly, what's your point?

I think what Hydrolisk pointed out was the worst case scenario possible. If what he said is true, then it is most definately not the end of the world. Our species (back when we were cavemen) have survived the last magnetic shift. Solar winds will cause radiation and more cancer, but it's not going to come and dissolve us like in the movies.
And then throw in numerous power failures and communication problems, it is plausible that there may be chaos.

And to bring out the absolute worst case scenario, the solar winds and all that may cause some Nuclear Plants to have Nuclear Meltdowns, and people in the states will be doomed... But this is purely speculative ...

Anyway, I sort of do wish something will happen. Something that will get everyone to understand the violence of nature and finally not destroy the environment... *sigh* ... yeah right..

I have no belief in any of this junk! I'm an atheist and the only thing that I believe is threatening us as we speak is Global Warming, and we definitely can change that problem, it's just that no body wants to contribute to the problem, or not enough people believe in it!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 20 2009, 7:55 pm by HavoK.

Truth. Our ancestors have survived the last magnetic shift and it seems that they came out quite fine. I agree that solar winds will definitely not dissolve us, but I think I might have overstated the radiation/cancer thing. I meant as in a very small and only barely noticeable difference, like an increase of 0.00125% in the average global population. Or something less than that, even.

This was what I was doing. And then consider the possibility that what I am saying is false. I mean, besides the book I was paraphrasing and a few Wikipedia articles, I don't have any other citations.

Definitely not going to happen. Nuclear power plants are built to contain the energy inside of them. As a side effect, neither is anything like that going to get in (by "in", I mean in where the power plant is built to keep high-energy radiation inside and away from people and volatile materials, etc.).

I think your definition of nature in this case is too broad. Most people probably will make a distinction between space nature and Earth nature, if you get my meaning.

I agree that it is plausible that there will be chaos. However, I predict that it will not be so bad. We just might have to rely a little bit more on snail mail than we do otherwise, since our human systems simply might be a little temperamental.
Again, I was describing a worst-case scenario.

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I don't think this case could have less to do with faith and spirituality. I mean, this subject couldn't give a **** about whether or not you believed in gods. It doesn't care whether you're Christian or Buddhist or not. It's indifferent. Just like how being atheist or spiritual didn't have a **** to do with Y2k. There were probably tons of non-god-believing people out there that thought something might have happened in Y2k. And tons that didn't. So who cares about whether or not you believe in (a) god(s), in relation to this topic?

*Facepalm.* Lemme give it to you straight: being atheist or not couldn't have less to do with this. It's a natural phenomenon that will or will not happen (the supposed pole flipping).

Ugh, shoot. Disregard this half, I have no idea what I'm trying to say now.