This topic assumes that you already understand how the direct damage concept works. See http://www.staredit.net/topic/5084/ if you do not.

Introduction:
This applies the direct damage system to an AoS map. More specifically, it gets the direct damage system to work with only 2 computers that can still act as each side's spawns. Note that this is a theory and there may be unforseen setbacks.

Sample player setup for a typical AoS:
p1-3 side A humans
p4-6 side B humans
p7 side A comp
p8 side B comp

Preconditions:
1) p7 and p8 run Random Suicide AI script continuously. This should also cause spawns to attack enemies automatically. Note that there may be problems as the spawns may not follow preset lanes anymore. More testing is needed.
2) Available Scarabs are always in storage. See the direct damage topic for more details.

Random Suicide AI Script Problems:
Random suicided scarabs first randomize an enemy player before picking the closest unit owned by that player to attack. They ignore players 9 and up. This means that the more players there are, the greater the chance that the Scarab will NOT attack and deal its splash damage.

The Solution:
First, store a large number of cloaked enabled Zerg Larva. They should have 0/1 hp so they never die. Note that enabled Zerg Larva do NOT die if they are moved on top of areas with no creep.

Now, when a spell is cast by either side, 4 Larva owned by EACH player of the opposing side (ie 4, 5, 6, and 8) are moved under the target damage area. This eliminates the randomized player problem as every potential enemy player is in that spot.

Now, the Scarabs owned by the side's computer player is moved to that location for 1 trigger cycle to deal damage. They will attack the closest unit (Zerg Larva) and splash nearby units. Cover up the larva with explosions of some kind. Then move the larva and scarabs away when the damage period is over.

Larva are used since they stack under units (don't get in the way). Powerups unstack units on top of them. Spider Mines attack. Zerg Lurkers attack. Other Zerg burrowed units will unburrow when attacked.

Implications:
You can now use mobile or coordinate grids to make spells, each with their own set amount of damage. Make fun patterns that deal damage! Grid a circle around your hero and deal damage there as a stomp attack. Grid a line and deal damage that way. Hell, you can grid a star pattern.

You can even UPGRADE the spell damage, or even its range as your hero gets stronger with this system!

Conclusion:
This was written in the hopes that AoS maps will finally reach the next level. The direct damage concept is perfect for AoS and RPG style maps as it offers a large number of possibilities. Heros and spells have now much much more potential to be unique, fun, interesting, and pleasing to the eyes (no more summon invincible BC for 2 seconds to deal damage please).

Thanks to:
Ahli - for testing stuff and for coming up with the multiple target idea
Morph - for the larva idea
Obama - for instigating the discussion

This actually can be applied to almost any type of UMS game.

the unit's movement/attack behavior should be the next bigger problem to solve now.

I guess, if all spawn in 1 base, they will just attack 1 path.
-> We may need the spawned untis owned by p9-p10 as long as there are no enemy units around.
-> locations need to be over the paths to control the units without enemy around on the path.
-> Give the units to p7/8 whenever there are enemies in the same part of the lane.

OR
we may be able to reduce the ai script usage to only a few moments (only during a spell, spell(scarab teleport) needs to be started 1 cycle later) and order the units to their normal target after using the script.

I think I once heard that there was a way to make P12 attack. I'm not sure about this, but couldn't you set it so P12 will attack P11 and no one else, and have a P12 Siege Tank attack a P11 Larva for the same effect? Then you don't need the AI script.

As usual, I could be totally wrong and epicly failing right now.

EDIT: Oh, I'm sort of working on a map which is fairly similar to an AoS, and I'm using DCs for HP and "virtual attacks" that lower the DC when they attack. Just throwing that out there because it's somewhat related to this topic.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 22 2008, 4:21 pm by TassadarZeratul. Reason: im in ur sen editing ur postz.

p12 will never attack as far as I know.
Selfpossessed wants to create a systen where you directly deal damage to everything and have spells that deal direct damage with the new method.

Implementing this in your AoS map correctly could give your map much greater potential, and an edge over other AoS maps.

*confused*

Basically, what I was saying is that you could use a Siege Mode tank, so then you don't have to run the AI script all the time. And even if you can't use a P12 tank attacking a P11 Larva, you could use a P11 tank attacking a P10 Larva. It's the same effect, but it doesn't force you to use the AI script, so you can keep the spawned units moving down the lanes correctly.

Attach that map that has the ability to do that pls.

I bet it's just a comp with p12 color

me 2

Couldnt you just used cloaked stackable infantry..? Like units placed as sprite then disabled and used the stacking trick on? they can be cloaked so you dont have to use explosions and stuff

that might work because ghosts will never be fast enough to shot around

Yes, but larva can't attack or move so there is no chance of glitching.

@ Jaff

The system requires 2 computers to be set aside for the direct damage. If you applied it to AoS directly, that would mean you would have 4 computers. The point of this topic was to show a workaround that needs only 2 comps total, allowing for 6 human players.

@ Ahli

This system SHOULD in theory work while using p7 and p8 as both the scarab damagers AND spawn units. P9+ is NOT an option to use as spawns as there is no known way to get them to attack reliably.

As I said in the OP, I'm unsure how random suicide affects multiple paths. A unit on one path might try running to another path to attack a player hero there. I don't know if order Patrol overrides it. Also, if a unit trying to attack a unit further away gets attacked, I don't know if it retargets the immediate aggressor. Testing is needed.

@ TassadarZeratul

vHP won't deal damage to spawns.

@ Pigy_G

Cloaked stacked units still attack though. Remember, if side A does a spell, a target unit for players 4, 5, 6 and 8 would be moved to the spot to prevent random suicide ai glitches. Larva appears to be the best option.

as far as I know the ai scripts have their effects a short time after they were used.

@P9/10 usage:
I know that they won't attack, but they will move around. That's why you could give the units back to their computer player, when 2 enemies meat each other (are in the same part of the lane). Then they start killing each other and when there is no enemy around, you give them back to p9/10 and give them new orders to follow the lane.