--Although its true that the earths temperature has increased the science of global warming is a scam. I assume most of you believe thats X causes Y, carbon dioxide causes global warming, it sometimes can be Y causes X, global warming causes carbon dioxide. Also there can be Z factors.

@Corbo "A little known fact is that much of the world's CO2 is stored in sea-water, and a rise in temperature reduces the water's capability to retain CO2, so the oceans give off CO2 as they warm."

--Regarding "An Inconvenient Truth" and its graphs showing as co2 goes up, temperature rises. This is really wrong, the ocean, which gives off the most co2 when heated gives off more co2. So when the sun is a little more active and heats the surface, the ocean heats up giving off more co2. The only complication is that there is a lag to the increase in co2 because the oceans temperature doesn't change over night, it can take 50 to 100 years. So yes when Al Gore shows his graphs being closely related they are, but the implied idea that co2 causes global warming is opposite.

--Carbon dioxide is a green house gas, the theory behind green house gases is that the troposphere will heat up faster where the gases are present causing warmth, then the surface follows. Atmospheric co2 makes up less then 1% of all green house gases. That doesn't disregard global warming, but a test by weather balloon and satellite showing does. The balloon measures troposphere temperature and its found that the surface is heating up faster or equal than the atmosphere. That disproves the entire role of any green house gases on warmth. Infact 95% of green house gas is water vapor, and if we switch to cars running on water that give off water vapor, we might actually cause global warming.

--Upon another look, scientist used to believe a global freeze was coming because of expansion of the ice caps and temperature decline. Now its flip flopped to global warming. When first looking at recent ice cap records you see them shrinking and then you talk about sea level and so on. The actual ice caps have always fluctuated in size, and when you look deeper you see them go from very small to big, grow, shrink, etc. This discredits ice caps roles in showing global warming.

--Another history lesson with co2 and temperature is during the automotive boom man made co2 went up and temperature declined, quite different from theory. Then during the great depression following that co2 declines and temperature again rises. This is another example of the co2 - ocean temperature lag.

--After showing explaining to my ignorant little brother, his questions were "Shouldn't we reduce co2 so that it doesn't build up in time?" No, to a degree. To manifest that much co2 would be ridiculous and out of every ones lifetime indefinitely. Because co2 isn't causing warmth, more co2 won't cause more warmth. Yet in speculation 100000 gigatons of co2 will cause warmth but we won't go there.

--Another history lesson is that after the medieval warm period, (close to our current temperature) came the little ice age. So I guess you can imply that the next ice age is coming because of the warmth now. Also during the little ice age co2 was high then even during the cold.

--So, if co2 isn't the culprit why is the earth warming? The Z factor, solar activity, geological activity, cloud cover, luck in a sense. The point is that global warming isn't under our control. Its human nature to like to believe that we have influence over things we don't. It makes me feel powerful just thinking about it.

Because this topic is unorganized, not in chronological order, or even well written, check out the documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" Its probably 1:20 minutes long. There is tons of uncovered information there, like why global warming is in the news even if its false, governments role in fueling the effects, why the documentary isn't popular, and the IPCC. (international panel of climate control) They are probably the biggest criminals behind global warming speculation.

OFF TOPIC:
Please quit believing what you hear or is implied on the media, they are trying to sell you a story, not inform you with factual information. That doesn't sell as well.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 12 2008, 6:23 pm by Zell..

I'm not saying water can not release CO₂ since I am not that informed in this topic... However I do know a little about chemistry. So...

H₂O and heat = H + O with gas liberation, which means O splits from each and both fly away. Now, I don't see were C comes in, unless they can simply mix together if they meet in the atmosphere, which I think does not happen...

So, until there is some proof or until you have a logic chemical equation, I don't believe about water. However, the rest is... Right... I saw the documental myself...

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2008, 12:22 am by Phobos.

It's not stored within the substance of water, rather carbon is stored at the bottom of the ocean because of bacteria (or something like that).

Oh. Then I partly believe

Yea put in ocean co2 into google and it will give you links that talk about, I saw a topic about cutting down on co2 so i had to post this. BTW if i remember the warming of the earth has a positive effect now anyway,

Positive effect = lolwut?
Melting icebergs are not good.
However, stable global warming keeps the planet warm, precisely.

It's a dissolved gas in the water. How do you think fish breathe? They suck the dissolved oxygen out of the water. You'll notice they don't just sit around in one spot. They're constantly moving so they don't suffocate.

There would be some positive effects. Some colder areas could start growing more and different crops, such as Mongolia.

This is what I mean. It's chemically impossible for water to release H2O just for being heat up.
Why does it even heat up anyway? because of our missing ozone layer and sunlight coming up straight ahead towards us.
Think about what you post before acting stupid at me.

Do you think that ocean water is pure CO2? Its not. Dissolved shells release carbonate into the ocean. Theres one example of how carbon gets into the ocean. Oceans absorb carbon to try and reach equilibrium with atmospheric CO2. I'm not an oceanographer but look it up the ocean contains carbon. Your second statement about ozone is idiotic. Earth is heats up from the sun, obviously. You fail epically because the ozone layer is fine except for the hole in Antarctica, and suns heat and radiation is reflected off the ice anyway. Whats even worse is that you don't know that ozone absorbs UV radiation not heat.

There is just so much bullshit in your first post. No creditable scientist is denieing the greenhouse effect, All they are discussing are the proposions. What you are trying to tell us is that there is a global conspiracy trying to x by making us use less fossil fuels. Which doesn't make sence at all, what would UN's climate panel get out of that if it isn't true? Nothing.

On the other hand the oil industry definately has an interrest in making you think it's bullshit. less demand on fossilfuels=less money for them.

And even if you were right and al'gore was just trying to make a bit of cash. There would still be a very good reason to cut down on fossil fuels; simply because it's a limited resouce that we are depending on and it's running dry, hence the high oil prices. So we will need to change our fuel habbits sooner or later anyway, and the earlier we begin the easier the transaction will be.

Also: There is enourmos amouths of methane in the ice sheets, when they melt it's going to get realeased into the atmosphere, and methane is a greenhouse gas 25 times as potent as CO2.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2008, 1:27 am by ihjel.

Potent? Cows release methane, and methane isn't even a significant green house gas. No credible scientist is denying global warming huh? You haven't considered that thousands of jobs depend on global warming research (about 10 times as much money as needed) and the first person to say its a fraud gets death threats and is shunned. Watch the interview of the director of "The Great Global Warming Swindle" he even mentions a scientist wanted to be removed from the film because he got phone calls and threats. I'm not saying theres a conspiracy to make us use less fossil fuels, its a media story that makes money. Scientist in global warming research make money. The IPCC gets money from the government thats what. A scientist in an interview said if he wanted a grant for research about squirrels nesting habits he said he would document it as a squirrels nesting habits in relation to global warming. He said if he didn't he might not get the grant. Al Gore is using global warming as a tool, just like it has been used for decades. Do you really believe a politician genuinely wants to save the world? If that was true he would be leading science programs not running for president.

Since when is the UN credible? They pull all sorts of crap that destroyed all integrity they had a long time ago. They get paid to freak us out cause then we give them more money to give us the "solution". Case in point, dont trust the UN, ever.

Yes cows realease Methane, and CO2 and Water Vapor. so does your mom, and I and pretty much any animal that breaths and has a stomach. You say it isn't a significant greenhouse gas. Source plx. "Scientist in global warming research make money." ofcouse they are, you think they'd work for free? just becouse people get paid doesn't mean they are evil. "The IPCC gets money from the government thats what." Not from THE goverment but from goverments around the world, it's an international institution not a U.S Agency.

[qoute]Al Gore is using global warming as a tool, just like it has been used for decades. Do you really believe a politician genuinely wants to save the world? If that was true he would be leading science programs not running for president.[/quote]I don't care whelther he is getting something out of it or not. Al Gore didn't invent global warming and he is not a scientist. But he did manage to get the discussion into the mainstream media which is good because it's the only way to make people care about it in the western world.

[qoute]Since when is the UN credible? They pull all sorts of crap that destroyed all integrity they had a long time ago.[/quote] like? [qoute]They get paid to freak us out cause then we give them more money to give us the "solution". Case in point, dont trust the UN, ever. [/quote]UN is NOT a corperation.

methane is about 2.5 percent of greenhouse gases, websites about global warming say methane is worse than co2 but never show its effects, because its not affecting us. (not significantly)

If you know anything about the IPCC you know that scientist have left them for there fraudulent claims, and they don't have jack shit credibility. Lindsay Sealand i believe is one of them.

What point are you making? My point is he pointed out global warming implying it by cause of CO2 which is false, and now you say hes not a scientist? yea I know. Wheres the meaning?

If you know what the Kyoto protocol is then you should understand all of these frauds. http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=41 The "Great Global Warming Swindle" explains a lot of the IPCC's wrong doing so watch it yourself.

So? They do exactly that, they tell us theres a problem and we give them money to tell us about it, when there really is no problem.

You realise that a global increase in temperature by only a few degrees(which is highly probable unless we do something), will blow methane vents in the ice caps causing global warming into a positive feedback loop?

the ice caps go through cycles, get bigger, smaller. If there really was a worry than action would already be taken. my target was global warming and co2 related. From what I've looked up about methane nothing is positive of its affect on warming. All I've seen from pro global warming websites is them saying its worse than co2, and co2 isn't harmful to us, I don't see any models or data behind it.

Glenn Beck states that it's up to 29x more effective as a green house gas if that means anything. But like i've said in other gw topics, there are other gases out there that are 296x more efficient green house gases.

Fact-o-the-matter, I think that the whole theory behind gw is:
1) solar energy penetrates the atmosphere and the water.
2) solar energy that reaches the water heats the water currents
3) currents that are heated melt ice caps and destroy current movement
4) extra water raises water levels and kills tonna people
5) ocean currents become unpredictable and cause global cooling
6) earth looks like "ice age" minus the hilarious cartoon animals

For all this to happen, step two needs to keep happening. If enough gases get into the atmosphere, shouldn't they help our standings, by diffusing incoming solar rays?? Then slowly gasses leak out of the hole in the ozone over aa and we reach equilibrium again? Just my thoughts.

The global warming theory is based on Co2 goes up, temperature goes up, the ice caps melting is a secondary way to scare people.

The UN does have an interest in global warming. An organization as corrupt as it would do anything for more power.

They have way more to gain saying global warming is real than facing the facts. They get more money that way, which is what they care about. People don't realize, there is no longer a need for the UN, if there ever was.