Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Rise Of Empires
Rise Of Empires
Oct 3 2015, 5:10 am
By: Excalibur  

Oct 3 2015, 5:10 am Excalibur Post #1

The sword and the faith

An Excalibarian Mapping Experience

Map Information

Concepts and Play

Starting Empires


Map Images

Thanks To


Excalibur's Notes

Post has been edited 27 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2016, 5:03 pm by Excalibur.

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Oct 3 2015, 11:28 pm ScOULaris Post #2

Wow, that is some impressive terrain work, and the concept sounds pretty great too. Downloading now.


Oct 5 2015, 1:19 am Jack Post #3

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Is there any documentation on what the unique units are and how to build them, as well as information on what each wonder is and its effect?

Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Oct 5 2015, 2:43 am Excalibur Post #4

The sword and the faith

Quote from Jack
Is there any documentation on what the unique units are and how to build them, as well as information on what each wonder is and its effect?
Added into topic.

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Oct 11 2015, 5:15 pm Moose Post #5

Overview of Start Locations
In process of updating for v1.7.

Rating summary:
* - Bottom tier picks. Very situational. Probably wouldn't even pick under favorable conditions. Winning generally requires very favorable conditions and bad/inexperienced opponents. Don't count on the stars aligning. Israel, Norway.
** - Mediocre picks. Slightly less situational. Might pick given particular conditions. Can thrive more easily than the bottom tier. Cossacks, Greece, Macedonia, Rome, Spain.
*** - Solid picks. Almost never a bad pick. May have trouble going over the top to win or have some downsides to keep them out of the top tier. England, Egypt, Mari.
**** - Top tier picks. Won't always win, but still never a bad pick. Carthage, Germany, Troy.

Special: Ultralisk, late Bronze Age
Carthage is the most influential start in the south and arguably the entire map, though it faces some competition lately. It has three direct neighbors who are all rightfully afraid of it. Even the neighbors of those neighbors may be heavily influenced by it. The Ultralisk special is easily the most relevant of the Bronze Age specials. Winning the game with Ultralisks is rare but it's not unheard of to have Ultralisks running around Norway, the Mari, or Israel. Ultralisks can be stopped by Iron and Gold Age units, particularly with upgrades, making momentum and aggression very important. Carthage may need to secure late game options to push over the top.

There is not a lot other players can do to stop an Ultralisk invasion in the early/mid game. Striking early, Carthage's neighbors may have some Marines or perhaps even Tanks as their only hope. Carthage relies to an extent on aggression - Rome and Spain's specials can take on the Ultralisk special but they come too late. Additionally, Carthage's neighbors also provide late game options to Carthage, be it Egypt's Iron Goliaths or Rome and Spain's gold. Carthage has a great position for securing the Zealot/Dragoon special combo. Once it does, it can transition into Golden Age specials to sweep. Carthage can also go through Egypt to Israel for the Gold Age trifecta.

Rating: **** 4/4 - Early on, Carthage can almost always roll who they please. Its neighbors give it very powerful late game options. Carthage is most effective with an aggressive play style - if there were a five star rating, it would take it by force. If the aggressive play style does not suit you, however, your neighbors will be happy and Carthage is a 1 or 2 star pick as its special falls into irrelevance compared to other specials.

Special: Vultures, early-mid Iron Age
Cossacks are located in the northeast, south of the Mari. They are connected in many ways of varying defense to the Macedonians and to an extent to Israel and Troy. The Macedonians are not very threatening due to strong border defenses. The Vulture special should be in play by the time Macedonia can the rush Cossacks. Even though you can roll Macedonia, that generally won't push Cossacks over the top. Taking Macedonia provides resources but not special value and adds a lot more border threats.

The Mari, however, are an influential and challenging neighbor. Conquering them provides a solid empire in the northeast without opening additional borders. The Mari soldiers are an obvious and effective late-game option for the Cossacks. The trouble becomes what to do after that. Egypt is very far away which makes using their special with the upgrades you have on yours unlikely. If you reach Germany, their special is build from the same unit so you lose unit diversity. Reaching down to Israel for a late-game Messiah push is difficult but an option. Cossacks can hold their own early game, the trouble is going over the top to win.

Rating: **** 2/4 - Cossacks thriving depends heavily on the Mari situation to their north. They need not fear their neighbors, but may run into trouble going over the top. The concussive special is not relevant against all others, so it cannot be relied on to dominate the game. The Cossacks need to secure late game options and getting that flexibility can be difficult.

Special: Hydralisk, built from Defiler, late Bronze Age
England has a somewhat isolated location in the northwest, but it benefited from recent changes to become a strong start now with the Hydralisk special. Spain is to the south, but there are at least nine cannons to kill along the way. On the other hand, Norway to the north is separated by a Bunker only, which gives potential for early combat. Germany is to the east, but with more cannon problems, but can also be reached by two more bunkers through Norway. This means England has essentially one meaningful border at the beginning and can rush to sweep a small circle in the northwest.

England has a good amount of room. The Hydralisk special is early enough to make an effective rush against Norway and then Germany. Norway may not even have their special by the time England can bust through. The trouble may be with sweeping the map if there are other starts with late game specials around the map. Spain and Rome may pose problems later on from the south. After conquering neighbors, England may have to switch gears to Germany's tank special or head south for Dragoon/Zealot and specials to sweep the map late game.

Rating: **** 3/4 - I'm not quite ready to deem England the new Carthage, but it's close. England is difficult to stop and can call the shots among its neighbors. If they don't sweep the map, the English can certainly secure a good position for the late game.

Special: Goliath, mid Iron Age
Egypt is located in the south and only has two direct neighbors, Carthage and Israel, Carthage being the more threatening of the two. The versatile Goliath special comes late enough that Egypt is not guaranteed to get it before PvP combat begins and requires an Armory, which is not something every start wants given the removal of siege on tanks. It is the best unit in the game for keeping away prying Overlord eyes.

Egypt's strategy is influenced very heavily by Carthage. If it's occupied, they will have to survive it or hope Carthage is more interested in going north. If Carthage is there and wants Egypt off the map, it's difficult to argue with that. There is not much to do against an Ultralisk rush, unless Carth is too slow and allows Egypt to start working on a force of upgraded Goliaths.

If Carthage is unoccupied, then Egypt has many flexible options and late-game strategies. Going all-in on the Iron Age is not unheard of, as the Goliath special is strong and versatile enough to sweep the map. Israel provides a flexible late-game option and good first conquest. Messiahs can tank the front line while Goliaths punish from the back. On the other hand, Egypt may go through Carthage into Rome and/or Spain for the Roman Legions and Spanish Cavalry.

Egypt has a moderate amount of room. You may want more land by the gold age, but if you want to be in a good position for the win you should have conquered one of your neighbors. The accessibility of Israel and Rome/Spain through Carthage give it a good position for securing a late game strategy. Like Carthage, Egypt has a good position to secure the Gold Age trifecta.

Rating: **** 3/4 - Egypt is a solid pick but is heavily influenced by Carthage's occupancy and/or interest in it. Despite having two neighbors, Egypt has a lot of flexibility. Having only two neighbors is always a plus - the downside for Egypt is that one of them is Carthage.

Special: Tank, built from Vulture, early-mid Iron Age
Germany is centrally located but can use that to its advantage. Germany is connected to the Germany/Macedonia/Greece/Rome central cannon formation; it does not break early game so it doesn't add threats and is useful late game by providing position and maneuverability. Germany also has a separate connection to Macedonia; this connection used to be more threatening but now has a DT wall with the cannons to prevent run-bys. Germany also has England to the west and Norway to the North. This can be quite constricting, but fortunately, Germany can stand up to its neighbors. The most real existential threat is probably a sweep by England.

Norway might be a threat, but Germany and Norway tend to get their specials around the same time and Germany has the micro advantage. England's Ghosts are not a great threat against the German Tanks. Germany can do a fairly good job of securing the northwest corner without adding additional borders. Germany probably does not prefer to go into Macedonia, but it can if map politics point in that direction.

Germany's special is micro intensive but with some management can take on most other specials. It need not fear an aggressive Carthage stretching northward. For a late game option, Germany can reach into Rome before they secure their special. Not that it needs to, the Tanks may very well end up sweeping the map.

Rating: **** 4/4 - Germany is never a bad start, but may face an existential threat from England sweeping around. The central location gives it a lot of options and it has good placement to influence the world relatively quickly. Germany does have to pay attention to what England and Macedonia are doing. The tank special is generally good but is most effective with some micro.

Special: Ghost, late Iron Age
Greece is located south of Macedonia and west of Troy. It is also connected to the cannon formation that links Greece to Macedonia, Germany, and Rome. The cannons are hard to break which saves it from early game threat, but Greece is threatened enough by its neighbors. The Ghost special is late enough that Troy or Macedonia can rush Greece before it gets there, especially given that Macedonia has only bunkers in the way. Greece is probably best off going for Vultures (and probably Firebats, since they want an Academy for their special anyway) to fight off Macedonia or Troy's advances.

The Ghost special has concussive damage and faces the same issue as Norway's - it needs support from other units and can't sweep the map alone. Fortunately, Troy is next to Greece and can lead to the Marine/Ghost Infantry combo, which can sweep the map. The Ghost special goes well against an aggressive Rome, though the Cannon formation does a lot to deter that aggression already.

Rating: **** 2/4 - Greece is not in a great position for dealing with its neighbors, but can probably do well if it survives and takes in the special from Troy. Greece really needs to pay attention to what Macedonia and Troy are doing and be prepared accordingly, more likely with Vultures. Really, though, you can avoid all that by just picking Troy instead.

Special: Archon, late Gold Age
Israel is isolated in the lower-right corner of the map next to Egypt. The next most influential start is Troy. The Cossacks and Macedonians can spread influence from the north, but this impact is very minor due to the large amount of defenses to get through. Indeed, Carthage rolling through Egypt may be a bigger threat. Israel is not spacious, but not as cramped as Rome. This works against it given how far it needs to reach into the tech tree.

Israel's special is at the very end of the tech tree and the highest tech special in the game. The Messiahs can take a beating. The trouble tends to be surviving long enough to use them. If Egypt or Troy are occupied, they may interested in Israel for the late game option that Israel's special provides. Rushing Gold may be the way to go, assuming you don't have to defend against Egypt or Troy. Securing the great library can greatly cut the time and expense of going through the tech tree - you'll only need a Gateway, instead of all the buildings up to and including the Templar Archives.

Rating: **** 1/4 - Israel needs isolation and/or the disinterest of other players to thrive. The special comes last, and unfortunately Israel tends to be better for conquering than starting in. It can do well if Egypt and Troy are empty, but then you could have just picked Egypt or Troy.

Special: Zergling, early Bronze Age
Macedonia is centrally located towards the east. It has Germany to the northwest, Cossacks to the east, and Greece to the south. Macedonia is connected to Rome by the central cannon formation. It is loosely connected to Israel and Troy by the water crossing in the east, but there are a lot of defenses to go through, so the other three will tend to be more relevant. Macedonia has a decent amount of building room, but the good things about it stop there.

The Zergling special, like other early Bronze Age special, tends to become irrelevant by the time you can conquer other opponents. The upside is that generally players won't be conquering you for your special. It helps you to expand early but if you want to use it for PvP, you have to rush. The Germany rush has been eliminated by a DT barrier to prevent runbys on the cannons (as predicted). Greece can be an easy conquest, however, due to it only being a Bunker border.

If the Cossacks want you dead, their Vulture special will do a good job against your special unless you manage to pull off Ultralisks or Goliaths early enough. If you take to long to go against Germany, their tanks can micro effectively against your Zerglings, assuming they don't get Vultures or borrow Firebats from Norway. If you go into Greece too late, they'll have Ghost specials to counter yours. Troy may even be active at that point and their Marines will be a problem. Any of these starts can get Vultures or Firebats to go against you anyway.

Overall, the odds for Macedonia do not look so good. The special can get them ahead early game, but they'll probably be better off ditching it for a more relevant late-game option.

Rating: **** 2/4 - Macedonia is badly sandwiched and forced to rush to get options that stay relevant. The second star comes from the less than spectacular advantage they have in being able to rush Greece. If you're looking for an aggressive play style with a Bronze Age rush and more powerful options, consider Carthage.

Special: Tassadar, built from Ghost, late Iron Age
A lot of the Mari's advantage comes from position - they're tucked away in the northeast corner. There are a lot of defenses between them and the Norse, who have England and Germany to be more worried about anyway. Their only true neighbor is the Cossacks. The Mari are far away from England and Troy, and in the opposite corner of Carthage, and avoiding all of those early-game powers is always a plus.

Most fighting will occur in the south and western areas of the map because people want Rome and Spain, so the Mari can stay out the conflict and build up to sweep the map later. The Mari special is powerful, but requires Gold Age upgrades. This makes securing the Great Library wonder a priority for the Mari, though it is more expensive and slower to build now, so it might be worth it to just go for gold. The special is a solid late game option that is certainly capable of sweeping the map (though complimenting it with other units will make them more effective) and relevant for the late game, though faster ranged specials can give the Mari soldiers a run for their money.

If the Cossacks are empty, the Mari can generally build up and do well. If not, they can sweep in with Terran Mech to counter the Cossack Vulture special and ... generally build up and do well. The only mistake would be to rush the Mari special into a bunch of the Cossacks.

Rating: **** 3/4 - The Mari are great for surviving and sweeping the map. Having only one true early opponent is a big advantage in this map.

Special: Firebat, early Iron Age
Norway has a roomy and moderately isolated start in the northwest. It has England to the southwest and Germany to the south. The Mari are connected through the east, but there is a substantial amount of defenses in the way, so that is only really relevant in the late game, if ever.

Norway's Firebat special is effective in some matchups but perhaps not the best for its neighbors. It's on an offshoot of the tech tree that not every start is interested in. It generally can't sweep the map and top out the game. It generally will be more effective if mixed with other units. Normally, it would be early enough that you are guaranteed to get it, and versus the Germans, the Norse pretty much are. England however, presents a huge problem for the Norse and can easily defeat Norway with its Hydralisk special. It doesn't help that England's only other option is to go through a ton of cannons, so this is a fairly likely strategy for England to try. England can break through before Norway can secure large amounts of its Firebat special. The Norse would be better off rushing Marines while waiting for Firebats if England is occupied. (or just getting Marines anyway, if only for the normal type damage.)

If Norway manages to defeat England or conquer it empty, the extra land without really adding a vulnerable border is nice, though the Hydralisk special will add little value. If Germany is occupied, the Tank special can easily take on the Firebat special and counter them. If Norway manages to defeat Germany, the Tank special can provide some more late game flexibility for them. In both cases, you probably would have been better off picking England or Germany directly.

Rating: **** 1/4 - Norway benefits from its isolated start but it can be brought down by England or Germany fairly easily, given the bunker only borders. Norway's ability to thrive is too heavily influenced by its neighbors. The special suffers from concussive damage problems and cannot top out the map. If you really want to be in that area, pick England or Germany instead.

Special: Zealot, early Gold Age
Rome is centrally located towards the southwest with Carthage to the south and Spain to the west. To the east, the central cannon formation connects Rome to Germany, Greece, and Macedonia. Rome starts with two geysers and they're going to need it. Even if nobody picks Rome, it ends up being relevant in most games because people will want to conquer it. The zealot special is very good and very popular as it provides a great late game option for every start and is the only way to get Zealots with the speed upgrade. It's a Gold Age special, so you're not guaranteed to get it before combat between starts begins. And players who want to secure late game options will be going into combat to get Rome.

Expanding south is the easiest option, as there are only two bunkers. The extra resources will help but Carthage's special will not add value to Rome's military. Expanding west puts you up against five spread out cannons (the stacked single pylon formations are easier), plus you're coming at high ground from low. The center formation with its DT barrier makes your special barely able to get in, plus it's six cannons there. Spain is probably the better conquest if you're doing a gold rush. Greece has the Ghost special now, so it can threaten Roman legions if you manage to break the center and don't have the support from other unit types. If you don't push south, other starts may have two or three starts under their control by that time and they will come crashing down on Rome.

Rating: **** 2/4 - Rome has a good special but in more recent versions of the map, it's become better to conquer than to start in. It's likely to be hit from multiple sides, is bordered by Carthage, and has a tough time expanding because two of the borders are 5 or 6 spread out cannons.

Post has been edited 11 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2015, 1:08 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Oct 11 2015, 5:24 pm Moose Post #6

Overview of Start Locations (continued from previous post)

Special: Dragoon, mid Gold Age
Spain is concerned with Carthage, Rome, and England. Note England has more defenses in the way, but the Hydra special is good against both Spain's special and the cannons in the way. Rome and Spain will be interested in each other because the Zealot/Dragoon specials make for a very well-rounded map-sweeping combination in the late game. Spain shares its fear of Carthage with Rome. Carthage may have a slightly easier time reaching Spain, however. Carthage can ruin Spain's day, and may want to do because of the late-game option provided by Spain's special. England has options which include Spain, and can certainly rush Spain if they choose. The trick is to not get crushed.

Spain has a decent amount of building room, which helps. The Dragoon special is good, but comes late enough that you are not guaranteed to get it. Dragoons enter the scene fairly late in the game. Carthage will definitely influence Spain's strategy. England is also worth keeping an eye on in case they decide to push south. Spain tends to thrive in isolation, leaning into Rome and then sweeping the map with a Zealot/Dragoon special combo. Spain should definitely pay attention to Rome because of that, and because anyone else conquering Rome may have that combination in mind and set their sights on Spain next. People will be interested in Spain, but most likely after Rome.

Rating: **** 2/4 - Spain has good room and can benefit from its isolation. Players want to conquer it for the special, but as a start, it's situational.

Special: Marine, early Iron Age
Troy sits somewhat centrally located directly next to Greece and Israel. Generally, Troy can catch Greece early enough with their specials and Israel will simply be too slow. What Troy has to watch out is its neighbor's neighbors -- the Cossacks in the north can threaten Troy and Egypt is next in line after Israel.

Troy's special is the Marine. It comes early enough that Troy can usually get it before other civilizations become a threat. Normal type damage is versatile. The Marine can possibly top out the game, but will have a harder time doing it than other Iron and Gold specials. However, should it be necessary, it can answer Carthage, Germany, and the Mari. This is something few specials can claim.

Troy is fairly straightforward. It does not have a lot of room but generally Troy wants to be pushing into Israel or Greece before a Gold Age buildup, if it does one. Capturing Greece gives you the Ghost hero, which can help against their neighbor, the Romans. Expanding to Israel is also a good option due to the late game flexibility provided by the Archon special, assuming the game lasts that long. Archons tanking for Marines is a powerful combination. However, if Greece is occupied and reaches their special, they can threaten Troy. Given that they both use Terran Infantry specials, having some Vultures may help each side in the fight.

Rating: **** 4/4 - At first I was unsure of Troy's presence in the top tier, but in more recent versions, it's there for sure. The special sometimes tops out the entire game, but regardless, it's versatile and goes well against most other specials. While it does not have the late-game flexibility of Carth, Troy certainly need not fear its neighbors.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Oct 19 2015, 1:37 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Oct 12 2015, 12:05 pm Oh_Man Post #7

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

Nice work.

Oct 14 2015, 8:43 pm Moose Post #8

Here's me doing a solo Macedonia to capture empty Germany early. Hatch was done around 15:30, probably could've done faster. Anyway, you can make it needlessly difficult and push Macedonia further into irrelevance before someone gets butthurt in a real game:

Here's a lame unbuildable tile to fix in Israel:
Here's another:

Was bored enough to solo rush from gold to first Messiah, no conquering neighbors and no Great Library. 38 minutes. Could probably do it faster. Tanking out Troy/Egypt to expand would probably speed it up more, but Great Library would probably take longer than getting 20k and building all the tech tree. Anyway, that's where a suboptimal vanilla rush is now.

Oct 17 2015, 5:41 pm Excalibur Post #9

The sword and the faith

Thanks to Moose and all his feedback the map has undergone some major changes. Any bad tiles or stuck geysers have been corrected. Enjoy!

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Oct 23 2015, 1:00 am Moose Post #10

Updated the tier ratings for the most part for the most recent version.

Rome: *** -> ** (-1)
England: * -> *** (+2)
Greece: * -> ** (+1)
Norway: ** -> * (-1)

Major changes impacting ratings:
- No more siege on tanks, which changes the approach to border defenses completely.
- Bunkers are a bit weaker and generally better to start by since you can secure more land earlier. Cannon stacks tend to be easier to get through, particularly with ranged units.
- Cannon borders are a lot more difficult, especially the non-stacked arrangements. The Rome and Spain borders generally last much later into the game.
- Fewer opportunities for run-bys on cannons due to more DT walls. No more Macedonia to Germany capture in 15 minutes.
- You can't sit and watch picks by DT deaths anymore. You really only know if a pick is taken if you watch the DT blurs very carefully or go for it and don't get it. This makes taking advantage of starts by an isolated (or close!) position or situational advantage difficult. More incentive to go for the best starts instead of going blind into the situational ones.
- Wonders are a lot more expensive. This in particular hurts the starts that would benefit from the Great Library (ie, the Mari and Gold Age special starts).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2015, 1:11 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Oct 24 2015, 1:57 am Excalibur Post #11

The sword and the faith

Took Mooses new suggestions and ratings into account for the next release. Israel and Norse starts have been buffed considerably while weakening Carth, Mari, and Troy a bit.

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Dec 8 2015, 12:02 am Moose Post #12

Writing a much briefer summary due to the changing nature of the game:

Troy: One bunker before PvP, but you're ready for serious PvP relatively early. Easy borders, two cannons to Israel and two cannons to Greece. Special is very relevant and effective against most others, but may not top out most games if Reavers or Cossacks or Greeks come into play. Complement Marines with beefy Archons and you're good to go. Gas mining is okay.

Mari: Isolation is good, one of the hardest starts to scout. Plenty of Bunkers to take before PvP. Easy time going south compared to the central cannons of Rome, cannons of Spain, or more difficult crossings. Special is relevant, normal typed, and can top out the game.

Carth: Special is normal typed and ready to go early. Plenty of Bunkers to bust before PvP, though you'll be ready for PvP anyway. Has good proximity to Israel, Rome, and Spain for a late-game gold pivot, or just Archons. Gas mining is good.

Egypt: Good start. Special is relevant and normal type damage and can top out the game. Has good proximity to Israel, Rome, and Spain for a late-game gold pivot, or just Archons.

England: Special requires some tough macro. Plenty to expand to in the south before PvP. Hydras probably won't top out the map, but you can break through to Spain and Rome in one go and pivot to Gold to ride that to victory. Less worth it to go east. Gas mining is good.

Spain: Defensible but vulnerable to south, especially from Carth. Good proximity to Rome for gold combo, plus the high ground there is relatively easy to defend. Range Goon special is very good.

Rome: 10 cannons to go north, 6 against high ground to go east, triple bunker island south. No expansions before PvP potential. Special is good but late game, so you might not have it before PvP. Better to play England, Spain, Carth, or even Egypt and conquer into Rome.

Israel: Troy on your north, Egypt on your south. At least you have a bunker to take before PvP. Special is very relevant but also the end of the tech tree, so you might not have it before PvP. Better to pick Egypt, Troy, or even Carth or Mari and just conquer into Israel.

Norway: Special not very relevant, gas mining is not good. Have some bunkers and a bunker island to take before PvP. Firebats in Bunkers will tear through yours. Concussive special hurts. Isolation is nice, but losing isn't. Late game options aren't really there aside from Tank and Mari (another close range unit, but at least it's normal type damage).

Greece: Suffer from concussive special as Norway. Better to be Troy and get the infantry combo that way. Vulnerable to Macedonia. Good against Mari, but late game you want something that can handle Ultras, Goliaths, Archons, or Dragoons, and Ghosts aren't it.

Germany: Special is good for PvC, but not much else. Only one bunker before PvP, and Norway can tank snipe it anyway. Potential combo to rush into Cossacks for the Vulture special, but that isn't what you want to top out the game. Doesn't really have late game options, reaching Rome through ten cannons is hard, as is breaking into Spain.

Cossacks: Similar to Germany in lacking late game options, though taking Mari is one. You can lord it over the Macedonians and the Mari, maybe even the Greeks, and then bite the dust. Plenty of Bunkers to bust before PvP, but your two cannon borders are pretty fragile anyway. Better to just take Mari.

Macedonia: Easy fast expand, but you need to secure late game options, and they aren't there. You can get in a good rush against your neighbors and lose.

Jun 13 2016, 9:09 am Crazed Post #13

How much money do the markets in each age give per second? Is that the first thing you should be rushing to when you get to a new age?


Jun 14 2016, 5:09 am Excalibur Post #14

The sword and the faith

Hey Crazed. :)
Bronze markets are 4 mins/gas per sec each for a total of 12 if all 3 are built.
Iron markets are 6 mins/gas per sec each for a total of 18 if all 3 are built.
Gold markets are 8 mins/gas per sec each for a total of 24 if all 3 are built.

Generally yes markets are great to get as early as you can. In Bronze, I usually go for my 3 markets when I am at 4 or 5 geysers depending on start location. When I build my blacksmith the first thing I do after converting all my geysers to refineries is go barracks -> factory -> 3x starport. Gold, its kind of a crapshoot because by that point you're probably expanding or fighting someone and thus are not rushing markets directly.

Typical Build based on an avg start:
Build 1 drone
Evolution chamber
Hit all 3 tutorial spots for $
3 drones -> mine
Start +1 melee attack
Morph all available larva into lings until +1 finishes
14-16 lings -> first sunken
Repeat until all 1 sunks are taken, continuously morph lings, drones as needed to make extractors
Morph lair as soon as able, while morphing lair, build 1 overlord
3x Queens Nest at 4-5 geyser count
24-28 lings -> first double sunk, repeat for all double sunks
Morph hive as soon as able
Expand until blacksmith is complete or no sunken geysers left
SCV -> Command center, on complete queue 5 SCVs.
Use 11 lings + SCV to clear extractors and build refineries. Have lings move on while SCV builds, use new SCVs as needed.
Soon as this is complete, Barracks -> Factory -> 3x Starport

This is your basic opening for MOST start locations. Mace/Anglo/Carth will vary a bit due to Bronze specials.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2016, 5:22 am by Excalibur.

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Jun 14 2016, 10:56 pm Moose Post #15

Quote from Crazed
How much money do the markets in each age give per second? Is that the first thing you should be rushing to when you get to a new age?
Bronze markets are always worth rushing. They pay off quick at 75 seconds each. (300 / 4) Technically, spending the same amount on a geyser is more profitable but they're much easier to get and Extractors are easiest to max out on. This early in the game, there's almost no threat to prevent a net profit.

Iron markets are usually worth rushing. They also pay off relatively quick at 150 seconds each. (900 / 6) It's rare for the net profit to be threatened at this stage of the game before you can turn a net profit. Investing the same amount in Refineries will give you more minerals, but you'll probably max out on those before you start capturing more fast enough to spend all of your minerals.

Gold markets are not always worth rushing. They don't pay off as quickly at 375 seconds each. (3000 / 8) If you didn't get the Great Library, the tech tree to Stargate takes awhile. This late in the game, you're more likely to be threatened before these turn a net profit. Rushing them over investing the 9000 in an army and/or upgrades can be a fatal decision. One is always useful to unlock the Fleet Beacon if you find yourself with a mineral flood.

Aug 23 2016, 11:32 pm Moose Post #16

I forgot to post about this geyser with stuck workers two weeks ago:

Nov 23 2016, 5:00 pm Excalibur Post #17

The sword and the faith

v5.1 uploaded.
Notable changes:
-Throughout late 4.0 versions and into 5.1 I have been expanding coastlines to provide more building area.
-Re-terraining and re-placement of geysers and native defenses for optimal play.
-Thanks to Moose the map can either randomize all starts or individual players can choose a random start.
-Tanks are now better equipped to deal with cannons for more expansion opportunities in Iron. We'll see how this plays out.
-Turret is now a less efficient version of the fleet beacon and converts 15k minerals into 3K gas. Thanks to Moose for this idea.

SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
The sword and the faith.

Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[02:54 am]
Vrael -- :wob:
[08:20 am]
GGmano -- Wob
[2020-1-26. : 4:09 am]
lil-Inferno -- :wob:
[2020-1-26. : 12:53 am]
MTiger156 -- This is what shoutbox is supposed to look like :facts:
[2020-1-25. : 8:47 pm]
lil-Inferno -- :wob:
[2020-1-25. : 4:59 pm]
Moose -- :lock:
[2020-1-25. : 4:18 pm]
Zycorax -- :wob:
[2020-1-25. : 2:53 pm]
lil-Inferno -- :wob:
[2020-1-25. : 10:22 am]
NudeRaider -- In hindsight: WHAT HAVE WE DONE! (was worth it) Also MTiger on drugs? :P
[2020-1-25. : 8:22 am]
GGmano -- Cheers all
Please log in to shout.

Members Online: Stimpertes50, Elladap2, mrowiec384121, Roy, KrayZee, zosia45271, DarkenedFantasies, 9taylorc7623to6, mormon27640