Staredit Network > Forums > Lite Discussion > Topic: Higher Education
Higher Education
Aug 30 2012, 3:33 pm
By: Sacrieur
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Sep 11 2012, 3:26 am Fire_Kame Post #41

a left leaning coexistence nut

Quote from Sacrieur
Quote from Fire_Kame
Again you really need an advocate to sit down and be frank with you about these things; do you need to go to MIT, or can you go to a state college and receive the same ends? Will you be able to pay your loans off in a timely manner? What are the best loans available to you? What grants and scholarships are available? Should you get a technical degree, a certification, and associates, or a bachelor's degree? Should you enlist or should you wait until after you get a degree and try to become an officer? get a degree and What are your life goals? Career goals? Social goals? There are cases in all ends of this, there is no one right or wrong answer for this. All these things matter.

MIT's financial aid package is calclated by an equation:

Student Expense Budget - EFC = Self-Help + MIT Scholarship.

For 2012, the SEB would is $57 010, my EFC would be $1900, and self-help is $6000.

This means I would be given 49 110 in an MIT scholarship. The EFC is earned through summer work (apparently), and the self-help is earned through work during school or loans/scholarships/grants.

Since I qualify for the full amount of the Pell Grant, that's $5500 deducted straight out of my $6000 self-help, leaving $2400 remaining for me to cover. This could easily be covered with a stafford loan or otherwise. If I were to attend four years ($1900 4 + $1500) then I would be paying $9100 in EFC total + $2000 for the left over self-help, yielding a total attendance cost of $11 100.

Going to MIT would be cheaper for me than any other university without the aid of a large scholarship, since they would paying my full tuition and then some.

As for a degree from MIT? It's not that big of a deal, takes smarts and drive to get into the program (I guess if you're low income like me), but beyond the hype it's just slightly harder coursework. The "real world" doesn't see it that way though, and the average entry salary for someone with a degree from MIT is 60k a year. So there's a definite benefit to going.

In addition, they do produce a lot of high quality research and have great opportunities there.

Alright, I fail to see the problem here. I might have missed something. I thought we were discussing how inaccessible education was, but you have made it very clear that it is incredibly accessible (although you don't get "and then some" on your grants/scholarships) in this post.

Perhaps the MIT thing helps at the beginning of the road, but college degrees are worthless after about ten years or so, especially if you haven't been in the field. So you could get a fancy degree from MIT, and it might carry you along a little further than most, but if you want to leave your first job or get promoted I can guarantee they'll want further education or else you'll hit a roadblock. Your first job is far from your last.




Sep 11 2012, 3:53 am Sacrieur Post #42

Still Napping

MIT's financial aid is pretty unique, a few other ivy league schools have a similar system, but that's the extent of it. And we're talking about < 1% of the college student population enrolled in these programs.

I don't plan on stopping with an undergraduate, never have.



None.

Sep 11 2012, 4:07 am Fire_Kame Post #43

a left leaning coexistence nut

All three of the schools I wen to, and the schools my sisters went to, all offered exceptional support. We're using anecdotal evidence here sure - but it does make you wonder if the people picketing are really just don't have the skills to succeed in colleges.




Dec 12 2012, 3:41 am Azrael Post #44



Quote from Sacrieur
The annual cost of attending a higher education at a public school has skyrocketed from $6320 in 1981 to $14 870 in 2010, and that's in 2009 dollars (source)

I just saw this. I have to say, that's a pretty high number. Even a really good education in Ontario doesn't require a tuition like that.

Quote from Sacrieur
It seems the technological advances in our culture and scientific knowledge has grown far too vast for a high school education to be sufficient. The median salary of males who just have a GED or high school diploma dropped from $44k to $32k, and for females, from $28k to $25k (source). The outlook for America looks grim.

What should be the solution for this crisis?

It seems like the direction you've described is positive, it's merely its effects on the working class that are negative. A solution would be government plans that promote a more common and accessible higher education. The qualifications of employees should shift upwards along with the need for them, it seems that it'd be better for everyone. There are places in Europe where it's simply free to go to university, and it's considered the norm for people to make a real attempt at it.

I don't think that ideal is grim, nor the shift to move toward it a crisis. Lower incomes for less skilled workers will motivate society as a whole to become more skilled out of necessity.




Dec 13 2012, 7:17 pm Sacrieur Post #45

Still Napping

It's true, there needs to be a shift in our culture to expect that of students. I advocate government funding smaller colleges and programs to give them the skills required to progress society and not just leave them to the dogs.

Tuition rising is a serious concern, but I don't know why they're rising exactly. Perhaps someone could direct me to a study or investigation that shows where this money is typically spent, on average across a number of institutions?



None.

Dec 14 2012, 7:25 pm staxx Post #46



Quote from Sacrieur
It's true, there needs to be a shift in our culture to expect that of students. I advocate government funding smaller colleges and programs to give them the skills required to progress society and not just leave them to the dogs.

True enough, but I would also think employers would just have 1 extra thing to take into consideration for their hiring process. Did they attend a free college, or did they attend a place they were financially responsible for. Most things in life that are free aren't that great of quality, I would assume no different for the education received at the select few free colleges.

Quote from Sacrieur
Tuition rising is a serious concern, but I don't know why they're rising exactly. Perhaps someone could direct me to a study or investigation that shows where this money is typically spent, on average across a number of institutions?

My guess would be the professor's pockets. I don't know about your area, but I know where i'm located they go on strike every 4 years which results in a higher paygrade for them.



None.

Dec 14 2012, 7:51 pm Sacrieur Post #47

Still Napping

I doubt a strike at a university would be feasible. There are plenty of people willing to take their place.

But at the same time, just to get a PhD takes an incredible amount of work and usually puts you a fair bit in debt.



None.

Dec 14 2012, 8:03 pm rayNimagi Post #48



Quote from staxx
Most things in life that are free aren't that great of quality, I would assume no different for the education received at the select few free colleges.

I disagree. In some countries, a university education is free for all citizens. Norway is one of these countries, and there are many institutions there (e.g. University of Oslo, NTNU) that are great places to study.



Win by luck, lose by skill.

Dec 15 2012, 12:30 am staxx Post #49



The education you get from such countries isn't credible/recognized here in North America, resulting in them having to go through school from scratch if they would like to pursue a job within North America. I don't know if it's the same vice versa as I haven't looked into it really, but you hear about it all the time here with Doctor's and such coming from other countries.



None.

Dec 25 2012, 5:05 am Azrael Post #50



Quote from staxx
The education you get from such countries isn't credible/recognized here in North America, resulting in them having to go through school from scratch if they would like to pursue a job within North America. I don't know if it's the same vice versa as I haven't looked into it really, but you hear about it all the time here with Doctor's and such coming from other countries.

Hmm, I'm wondering, are there also instances of universities in North America not being accepted in these European countries as well? Or does it only work one way?




Dec 25 2012, 5:43 am Mini Moose 2707 Post #51



Perhaps I am uninformed, but logically I would assume this depends much on the school and its reputation, which is how things already are with North American schools. If I went to some obscure small school in North America or Europe, I would not expect it to carry respect in the European or North American job markets, respectively. Likewise, I would assume that degrees from schools like Harvard, MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, University of Berlin, etc. are respectable in the job market worldwide.



None.

Dec 25 2012, 6:14 am Fire_Kame Post #52

a left leaning coexistence nut

Well...kindof. It depends on who the employer is, in the end. I've talked to my mentors several times and asked how they feel about small colleges vs big universities vs obscure vs renowned...and they all have said it depends (on every level of employment). I have heard that those that graduate from Harvard or similar have trouble finding work straight out because they are over-qualified to employers, but I also think there is some experience/education disparity. I was apparently over qualified from Starbucks even though all I had was an associates degree, but you have to really ask yourself if the Harvard graduate applied for those jobs or felt they deserved a 50k/yr job out the get go without experience or a network.




Dec 25 2012, 6:43 am staxx Post #53



I would think a lot of it has to do with regulations/standards/laws. Each country differs from each other in respect to their standards/regulations/laws in workplace practices.



None.

Dec 25 2012, 6:43 am Sacrieur Post #54

Still Napping

Well it largely depends on your major too. People that get a degree in history or philosophy -- even from ivy league, won't necessarily land themselves in some cushy position. But if you get a degree in engineering from MIT, well, you're pretty much guaranteed a job.

Lawyers will probably find some crummy work somewhere, med students too. If you're not in a STEM field you're SoL. English/Lit degrees are only good for getting a teaching degree along with it, regardless of where you got it. And fuck if you go to grad school, it just makes your chances of finding a job even more slim.



None.

Dec 25 2012, 7:14 am Lanthanide Post #55



Quote from staxx
The education you get from such countries isn't credible/recognized here in North America, resulting in them having to go through school from scratch if they would like to pursue a job within North America. I don't know if it's the same vice versa as I haven't looked into it really, but you hear about it all the time here with Doctor's and such coming from other countries.
Generally you'll find degrees from western countries will be recognised just fine in the US. Medical and law degrees have requirements for the country where you want to practice. Sometimes degrees will not be officially recognised under the same name, purely based on the content of the degree - my 3 year bachelors of science would only be recognised as an associates degree in the US. 4 year honours degrees in NZ would be recognised as a standard bachelors in the US, but funnily enough NZ only recognises a 4 year US degree as a 3 year bachelors and not as a 4 years honours degree.



None.

Jan 26 2013, 11:17 am MasterJohnny Post #56



Quote from Sacrieur
Tuition rising is a serious concern, but I don't know why they're rising exactly.

In my state, California, Tuition increases are due to lack of funding from the state because it is broke and unable to raise taxes because the people are broke.
Since the state lacks funding, University had to send the bill to the students rather than the state.

(I expect this will cause many problems down the road since college have cut classes and in the future, we will probably lack too many educated people for difficult jobs.)



Philosophy deals with unanswered questions. Religion deals with unquestioned answers. I am a Mathematician

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