I need firebats to represent swordsmen for my computer faction in my rpg (zealots and zerglings are already being used for something else), but I can't figure out how to get around the splash problem (they fight side by side with the player part of the game).

Is there any way to reduce/remove splash? I doubt there is, but I thought I might as well ask...

Make the allied units have enough armor so that the splash only does 0.5.

It is impossible to remove the splash damage.

(sorry about putting this in the wrong forum, I thought stuff about splash mechanisms would go better in Theory than Assistance).

The allied units are the same units as the firebats at first >_<. To make the fbats do little damage to eachother, I would need to either nerf their damage too much or give them too much armor.

Hmm. Besides zerglings, zealots, firebats, infested kerrigans, and dark templars, what other unit could represent swordsmen?

Assuming visual distinctions are unimportant, Fenix and Zeratul could work. SCVs could maybe fit, but you would be pushing it.

When I gave the list of units I had already used, I was including their hero equivalents. Or at least I meant to imply that . Scvs are also already being used, I forgot to mention that.

I suppose I could make swordsmen zealots, but then I would need to find a new unit to represent Merfolk shore raiders...

EDIT: In case you're curious, this is what all those other units are being used for:

Zergling: Zombie (generic undead troop, similar to the firebat's role for humans)
Hero Zergling: Experiment (player-controlled hero)
Zealot: Mermen (unalligned monsters that occasionally attack coastal areas)
Hero Zealot: Halon von Crazyman (boss)
Infested Kerri: Guerrilla (elite units for rebel factions, also occasionally ambush you in certain areas)
Dark Templar: Vampire [Night] (elite undead unit, night form)
Hero Dark Templar: Vampire [Day] (day form of Vampire; slower and weaker)
Zeratul: Elf Warrior (generic, usually unalligned monster found defending Elven areas)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 25 2010, 8:07 pm by Jesusfreak.

Drones, if unused, could be swordsmen. I mean, if a 'ling's claws qualify as swords, then the drone's clawteeth could, too. Ultralisks could be swordsmen if swordsmen are uber-muscular?

Perhaps I could use drones if I find no other use for them (I'm probably going to use them as seeds for the Peasant (scv) to plant). I don't like that their first instinct upon being attacked is to run away, however. Ultralisks are already used (Hero ultra is a boss I haven't named yet, normal ultra is the Solbeast Monster, a potential player-controlled hero or elite unalligned unit).

Best bet is probably to use one of the ones you're already using, and find a replacement for them instead.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 12 2010, 12:06 pm by DevliN. Reason: Mineral abuse.

Yeah, that's probably the best idea.

The most likely candidate for replacement is the Merfolk guy (zealot). Not sure what to replace it with though (hydras would work, but they're already used). Hmm. ! Do you think firebats would be a good representation for merfolk? I mean, they're barbaric looking, they don't work well in large groups, and look humanoid... it'd be kind of ironic to use a fire-based unit to represent a water-based mythological creature, but maybe that would be good... what do you think?


By the way, while we're here, I may as well ask - is there a way to make zerg morphing take an infinite amount of time? A couple heroes switch between forms by morphing (or at least that's what I have planned), but I don't want weird stuff to happen if by chance they wait for the unit to finish morphing.

Hmm, just to make me feel better about myself, I'ma post every single unit idea I have. Might help with my organization.

Human Units (includes humans controlled by the Unalligned computer player):
Name: Swordsman
Description: Basic human footsoldier. Usually found occupying defensive positions, such as being town guards, but can also sometimes be found on the attack. A Peasant class player becomes this unit when he first joins the army.
Unit: Undecided; most likely either Zealot or Firebat.

Name: Bourgeoisie
Description: Generic NPC unit that represents anyone wealthy; could be a businessman, church official, noble, politician, etc.
Unit: Civillian

Name: Low Wizard
Description: As a player-controlled unit, it can psi storm and summon fireballs to attack. As an NPC, it can represent various roles, such as old hermits and priests.
Unit: High Templar

Name: Magilord
Description: An upgrade to the Low Wizard. As a player unit, it's main advantages over the low wizard include having more mana, more hp/shields, a physical attack, and possibly more spells. As an NPC, they can be minibosses and regional rulers.
Unit: Tassadar

Name: Overseer
Description: NPC that represents various local positions of authority, ranging from slave drivers to drill sergeants.
Unit: Goliath

Name: Peasant
Description: Starting hero of the Peasant class that players can use. Generally, the player will upgrade to a different unit within a few minutes. As an NPC, it usually represents farmers or working-class people.
Unit: SCV

Name: Rifleman
Description: Footsoldier for human factions that comes in later in the game and replaces the swordsman. It plays a similar role to that of the swordsman, but is much more powerful.
Unit: Hero Ghost

Name: Bandit
Description: Annoying unalligned unit that likes to hide behind tree sprites and ambush players. Can also represent paid assassins.
Unit: Vulture

Name: Steamship
Description: Human naval unit. Much more expensive than it's counterpart, the Zombie Frigate, and not much better, if at all. Does not come until later in the game, allowing other factions to essentially rule the seas for the first part of the game.
Unit: Hero Battlecruiser

Name: Pirate
Description: Unalligned naval unit. Although fast and designed for combat, they are usually found hiding with their treasure, occasionally popping out to prey upon transport ships. Generally not much of a threat.
Unit: Undecided, probably corsair

Name: Llama Rider
Description: Unalligned units that are commonly found in jungly areas. Also represents the mounted form of a boss, which must be killed before you can attack the actual boss, who quickly gets on another llama.
Unit: Hero Vulture

Gnomish Units:
Name: Heavy Infantry
Description: "Basic" Gnomish infantry. Very heavily armored, but ridiculously low hp. Usually found within bunkers. Although the Gnomes start out with a handful of these, they cannot produce more until later in the game. Later in the game, they also get stim packs.
Unit: Marine

Name: Gnomish Submarine
Description: Has lower armor and hp than the either the Steamship or the Zombie Frigate, but has higher attack power and is permacloaked.
Unit: Hero Wraith

Name: Flying Machine
Description: One of the few actual flying units in the game. Has little attack and weak armor, and cannot go over high cliffs when it first comes in. Does not come until later in the game. Becomes much more effective when upgraded.
Unit: Wraith

Name: Tank
Description: Gnomish assault unit. It has high armor, decent hp, and a good attack, but is usually ineffective due to it's slowness, and it's expensiveness and sheer size makes it dificult to use them in groups. As a result, it's primary purpose is attacking defensive structures.
Unit: Siege tank


Undead Units:
Name: Zombie
Description: Basic undead footsoldier. Is usually spawned rather than built. Sometimes, the player will become one of these shortly after dying.
Unit: Zergling

Name: Phantom
Description: Tough undead unit that will rarely spawn on the battlefield, can also be spawned by various events (usually the undead get one when someone important dies and his soul was evil enough to be phantom-material). It is one of the undead's few ranged units. While it has good survivability and damage, it's main advantage is that it's permacloaked.
Unit: Probably dragoon, but possibly hero marine

Name: Shadowfiend
Description: Undead defensive unit. Not supposed to unburrow (but usually does so anyway; if I can't figure out how to make the AI NOT unburrow, I may have to remove them).
Unit: Lurker

Name: Zombie Frigate
Description: Undead naval unit. Unlike the Steamship, it can be created at the start of the game. Can later be converted to a submarine, making it permacloaked (note that submarines have to be manually built by the player, as devourers cannot be cloaked directly).
Unit: Devourer

Name: Dark Lord
Description: As an NPC, it can be a boss or some high-ranking undead. Unlike most undead, they can speak and communicate clearly to humans - they often take advantage of this and act as recruiters for the Darkness. As a player-controlled hero, it gets various spells and can attack with it's "Mage Hand," a carrier that hovers near the unit. Cannot use the "Mind Control" spell under any circumstances.
Unit: Dark Archon

Name: Ghost
Description: Undead air unit. Usually confined to buildings, but occasionally can be found roaming outdoors (the ones outdoors usually do not attack), especially if someone important dies and they were not evil enough to become a phantom. Occasionally can function as NPCs, although they rarely speak Human coherently. They are permacloaked.
Unit: Mutalisk

Name: Vampire
Description: Not to be confused with VaMpS, although many NPCs and historical records confuse the two. Is weaker and slower at day than it is at night. As a player-controlled hero, it also cannot cast spells during the day. As an NPC, it usually represents remnants of the Undead nobility, and are more loyal to prominent reactionary Nicoli Shadowmeister than they are to the the current ruler, Melekh Sheol. They are generally scattered amongst their own tombs and are a fearsome opponent even alone.
Unit: Undecided; zealot if both the zealot and the hero zealot are available, Dark Templar otherwise (normal DT for night, hero DT (non-zeratul) for day)

Name: Demons
Description: Usually alligned with the undead but not always, demons are rarely seen, but frequently felt. Permacloaked and frequently hiding inside cloaked bunkers, the primary purpose of demons is to serve as the Fires of Hell. (These are the source of the fire that constantly burns you while in the Domain of Hell.)
Unit: Hero Firebat

Name: Bloodleech
Description: They have relatively low endurance, but decent attack strength. As a player owned hero, they must constantly kill units in order to keep their energy from dropping to 0 (each kill sets their hp and energy to 100%).
Unit: Broodling

Name: Void Mage
Description: Player-controlled, these mages link their magic directly to The Corrupted Void to teleport and dish out damage (dark swarm spawns scarabs). As an NPC, they represent the priest class of undead society.
Unit: Hero Defiler


??? Faction Units:
Name: The Iron Blimp
Description: The capital ship of the mysterious organization of conspirators. Very high armor and can fly, but generally not used on the offensive. Often disguises itself as a crashed ship in order to attract curious adventurers. The boss can be found within the ship at most times, and the ship could be considered a boss itself.
Unit: Hero Battlecruiser

Name: Iron Blimp
Description: Not to be confused with THE Iron Blimp. High-armor air unit with mediocre attack power.
Unit: Battlecruiser

Name: Angel
Description: Unit alligned with The Shiny Light, which is actually owned by the ??? faction. Rare but powerful. Despite being portrayed by popular mythology as messengers, most of them are actually more suited to combat purposes.
Unit: Undecided, probably scout

Minor Faction Units:
Name: Merman (land form)
Description: Occasionally raids shores. Can be a threat in large numbers. Mermen can be intercepted while traveling in their sea forms.
Unit: Undecided; possibly zealot, firebat, or hydralisk

Name: Merman (sea form)
Description: Mermen will be in this form while at sea, and change to their land form when they hit land. These sea forms have low hp and high attack, and are rather fast.
Unit: Undecided, probably either mutalisk or scout.

Name: Kraken
Description: Generic sea monster. Almost always found alone, but are still very powerful and a menace to ships. Can occasionally be found helping a large merfolk assault, although they cannot venture onto land.
Unit: Carrier

Name: Elven Swordsman
Description: Much more powerful than the human swordsman. Hostile to almost everyone at the start of the map, they and the other elves will join whoever frees them from the Corrupted Void's influence over the area. They generally do not wander beyond their town, and if they do, they almost never go beyond the forest.
Unit: Zeratul

Name: VaMp
Description: Commonly mistaken for Vampires, VaMpS are unalligned and oftentimes much more powerful than Vampires. These are the creatures that can change into bats and fly around, and have to drink blood to survive. As a player-controlled hero, they are able to switch between bat form and ground form at will during the night (although the process takes a small amount of time), and have to keep their mana above 0, or else they die. Their mana constantly decreases and they must refresh it with kills. While the VaMp is not weakened by sunlight (besides not being able to transform), it's mana decreases much faster while exposed to sunlight.
Unit: Hydralisk. (Undecided on it's air form, probably either mutalisk or scout, whichever isn't used as the merman's sea form)

Name: Solbeast Monster
Description: As an NPC, they are solitary and can be found hanging out in castles and mansions, usually owning the entire place to themselves. They are roughly as powerful as VaMpS, and although they do not get a bat form [actually I'm considering giving them one], they are physically strong. As a player-owned hero, they also possess spells. Their mana recharges when exposed to sunlight and slowly goes down without it. Unlike the VaMp, they do not die if their mana hits 0, although they will have their movement slowed.
Unit: Hero Ultralisk

Name: Monkey
Description: Weak but annoying, they are always found in large groups and often take over abandoned buildings.
Unit: Undecided

Name: Scientist
Description: Found in laboratories and the like, they are generally well-armed. May be alligned to different factions depending on the location.
Unit: Kerrigan (uninfested)

Name: Experiment
Description: A class for the player to select at the start. Starts out in a lab that it must break out of. Is rather strong physically, but starts out unable to communicate with any NPCs, which is a large disadvantage. Depending on what it does while in the lab, it may gain additional forms it can switch between.
Unit: Hero Zergling (other forms include defiler and hero hydralisk)

Bosses:
Name: (Not yet revealed)
Description: The strongest boss in the game and the leader of the ??? Faction, he is speculated to be some sort of god. It is rumored that he is obsessed with taking over the world, although other sources say that he actually wants to destroy the world. Despite being a devout anti-theist, he controls several cults and religious organizations across the map, and in fact is the puppetmaster behind "God." He strongly favors predictable science and technology over magic, and it is rumored that his influence is what caused the gnomes to adopt an eerily similar attitude.
Unit: Ghost (non-hero)

Name: Nicoli Shadowmeister
Description: The leading figure in reactionary politics amongst the undead, he secretly seeks to overthrow Melekh Sheol and give the Underworld back to the old nobility. Economically, he strongly prefers that the private sector screw you over than the state screw you over, and he was strongly opposed to the centralized Shadow Market. He is very powerful magically and has the loyalty of most vampires. Despite his vocal desire to commit treason, he is not labeled as a criminal, and is actually one of Sheol's right hand men.
Unit: Probe (if available; otherwise undecided)

Name: Kanna Shapat
Description: The puppet leader of the Shiny Light, he offers "eternal life" to all who will follow him mindlessly. He has the keys to a mysterious land referred to as "Heaven." Because no one he has allowed in has ever returned, it is unknown what the place is like, although sources authored by him describe it as a paradise. He is the "God" worshiped by many human religious institutions. He is ridiculously tough with decent attack strength, but the majority of his endurance is in his shields. If you could find a way to disable his shields, you might be able to defeat him...
Unit: Hero Archon

Name: Halon von Krazyman
Description: Regarded by many to be insane, Krazyman is a solitary man who spends his time in his oddly-designed castle (infested command center). In combat, Krazyman will make fake copies of himself to confuse the player. He has very low hit points but high damage, making it important for the player to quickly pick out which unit is the real Krazyman. The player must kill him multiple times for the battle to end. After "killing" him, he comes back to life, kicks the player out of the castle, and to the player's amazement, the castle literally flies away to another location. After going through this process a few times, Krazyman dies for real and the player gets to keep the castle.
Unit: Undecided, definitely a melee unit, probably hero zealot

Name: The Corrupted Thing
Description: It currently resides in the Domain of Hell, where most people who know of it would prefer it stay. Certain player activities may result in it breaking free of it's "throne," which is a protective (but highly decorated) barrier placed to prevent him from returning to the mortal world. If he indeed does break free and return to the mortal world, he will proceed to begin destroying almost everything he sees. While he has no special abilities to speak of (besides being permacloaked) he is ridiculously tough physically.
Unit: Ultralisk (non-hero)

Name: The Corrupted Void
Description: Also known as "The Darkness," it is the magical force that holds the undead together, despite not actually being alligned to the undead. It is rumored that all magic emanates from this being, and that the use of magic feeds it. It's powers and true physical form are unknown, however, it is speculated that mind control is not beyond it's abilities, as it has recently taken complete control over the elves and instituted a hive mind. It is unknown whether The Corrupted Void has any relation to The Corrupted Thing.
Unit: Observer [unsure of whether this boss will actually appear physically in the game, but it will definitely be an observer if it does]




Hmm. I think I've forgotten a few things, but meh. I feel better about my organizational abilities now .

is this the rpg you were talking about working on like a year ago?

Not a full year ago... but getting there. This is the one I was talking about in December. The one from last summer got abandoned, but I transplanted some ideas from that into this one (ie, Halon von Krazyman and The Corrupted Void).

I haven't made much progress, but that's mostly because of school and stuff. Now my lack of progress is attributed to laziness. But I can change that, heh.

yea, looking through that list, i think its best to just go with usign the zlot as the hero.
if you could recolor the firebat to blue, then it might work for the merman

Well, Player 8 (the one that gets all the unalligned stuff) is yellow, but there's no rule saying that he has to be... hmm...

and the splash could be him throwing some really disgusting water at you