I was playing Temple Siege a while ago and was inspired to make a map based on it, but in space. So I wrote out a list of ships that players can select, and stuff like that, and began implementing the map in SCMDraft. But, I then realized that I should probably get some feedback on my ideas. So, like, here goes:

First, every mobile unit in the game is an air unit. I'd just like to say that. There cannot be any land units besides structures, or it will imbalance the game a lot. (The one exception I'm willing to make is units that can't attack air and are immune to Spawn Broodlings.)

Second, there are no levels. You get minerals as you fight, but don't "level up". You also get minerals from building Battleforges (Battleforge = Supply Depot), which generate them over time for the player that built it. They are not built like TS's Assimilators and stuff, but are created by building a Probe, causing a Battleforge to appear under your ship. Battleforges also act as spawn points for your computer-controlled allies.

Now, onto the spaceships. I'll list them like this:
Name (Unit):
Description/special notes
-Spell 1
-Spell 2
-Spell 3
-Spell 4





So, what do you guys, like, think? Do you approve? Or, do you have any other ideas for spaceships I should put in the game?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 16 2010, 11:43 pm by An Engineering Bay.

Errm okay ;D. This looks good. Lalala. Feedback? Maybe baby.



Bioship (Devourer)
Player-killer. Has no base-killing ability at all.
-Transit Mode: Turn into a Scourge, until the Scourge dies or attacks.
-Devouring: Summons a bunch of clones of the Bioship temporarily.
-Homeostatic Disruptor: Fires a dodgeable missile (Kakaru) that prevents anything it hits from casting spells for a while. (The Kakaru is reused for each cast, so you can hotkey it.)
-???: I don't know what this spaceship's fourth spell should be.

Err, personally, I don't like the first spell, maybe if the scourge could change back...
For the second spell, are you planning to use Hallus or real units?
Mm, the third spells looks good I guesss.
For the Devourer, you have to factor in it's speed, attacking cooldown, and it's ability to slow down units with it's attack.

Black Ops Drone (Observer)
Espionage, map control, being annoying.
-Energy Mine: Plants an invisible anti-air mine.
-Cloaking: Temporarily cloaks the Drone.
-Self-Destruct: Suicide attack with massive splash.
-Warp Mine: Plants an invisible summoning mine.

I don't like the idea of an Observer hero.. sorry. It's just, it can't attack ._.
Err, which unit are you planning to use for a mine? A cloaked unit? Or maybe building? Location?
Wait! Isn't the Observer already permanently cloaked? Yeahhh.
Err, if there is a set amount of lives, won't this be like useless unless you can take down like two heroes?
Don't really get this o.o, summoning units?

Shadowbomber (Wraith)
Base-killer. Air attack is rather weak, forcing this spaceship to rely on cloaking to survive other players.
-Recharge Cloak: Sets your cloaking energy to full.
-Disrupt: Creates a Disruption Web for a few seconds.
-Chaos Laser: Summons a Battlecruiser which can only hit ground.
-Hacking Spire: Summons a Pylon which converts all nearby enemy structures to your team's control until it dies.

Mm, I think the first spell is fine.
Disruption Web... if there is no ground units... won't this be pointless?
Can only hit ground...? Only air heroes... won't this be like.. uhh yeah... Also, how do you intend to make the battlecruiser only attack ground-bound units?
Huh, this spell might not really work, if it goes next to like a Unit Summoner or Turrets/Cannons.

Space-Time Manipulator (Arbiter)
I'm not quite sure what the role of this spaceship will be. Is that bad?
-Ally Recall: Lets you recall allied spaceships to your location. (Does not work on summoned or AI units.)
-Warp Terminal: Summons a Robotics Facility. You can teleport from any RF to any other RF.
-Dimension Portal: Teleports you an all nearby units to an alternate universe.
-Black Hole: Moves all mobile units to the center of the map. (It is worth noting that there is a permanent Disruption Web there.)

Mmm. Allied Recall, how do you intend to let an arbiter recall hero units that belong to another player? I don't believe that Recall can be detected by locations/triggers.
How many Robotics Facilitys do you plan to have?
Hm.. if it's an Alternate Universe, won't you be stuck there? By all units, do you mean all heroes, enemy heroes, AI units? If so... EEH!
Huh.. I don't really like this one... does it Move Via Trigger or Order Via Trigger? If it's Move Via Trigger, it's going to be abused so badly. Yes, also, how will there be a permanent D-Web there? A sprite cannot be moved nor created Via Triggers.

Remutator (Mutalisk)
A "tank" spaceship, where "tank" = hard to kill.
-DNA Shift: Switches between defensive mode (what it starts in) and offensive mode (non-hero Mutalisk).
-Shield: Summons an Overlord, which cannot move too far away from the Remutator. While the Overlord is alive, the Remutator is invincible.
-Siege Aspect: Turn into a Guardian or back.
-Rapid Regeneration: Full heal for HP upgrade level.

First of all, take into consideration that Mutalisks are fast, and they have bouncing attack.
Mm, I don't like this too much.. I mean, commanding a Defensive/Offensive type Mutalisk would be kinda confusing.. at least to me.
This is amazingly unfair. The Mutalisk is already built as a tank no? Wouldn't it make it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to kill? Will the Mutalisk be Moved Via Triggers to the Overlord or vice versa?
I think this could be good , suggestion, why not make the defensive mode the Mutalisk and the offensive mode the Guardian, or the other way around?
Yeah, I don't really think this is fair, I mean, the Mutalisk already has Zerg Heal going for it already, stacking it with Full Health is going to be pretty amazing.

Engineering Skiff (Engineering Bay)
Base-builder with unusual abilities. Cannot land (neutral DT constantly moved under it).
-Fire Control: Gives all allied Missile Turrets to your control temporarily, raising their firepower and armor.
-Mobilize Turrets: Converts all allied Missile Turrets into Dropships for 30 seconds. A Turret can be converted back early by unloading.
-E-Bot: Summons a Probe which can build Missile Turrets.
-Re-enforced Armor: Repairs all allied structures, except the HQ.

Okay, first of all, an Engineering Bay is a building, which lifted, is slow, large, and cannot attack; this makes it vulnerable to attacks, almost any attack.
Uhm, the first spell would only work around your base only right?
Can you command the dropships or are they going to be AI-ed by Junk Yard Dog?
I don't think this is really fair, it can pretty much rape almost any hero then right? Just make turrets everywhere in clumps.
This spell WILL be abused.

Flying Fighter Factory (Battlecruiser)
Summoner.
-Deploy Fighter: Summons a Wraith with no Cloaking ability. Max 10.
-Deploy Support Ship: Summons a Science Vessel. Max 2.
-Hyper Repair: Heals all nearby Wraiths, Vessels, and Valkyries.
-Hyper Upgrade: As Hyper Repair, but also converts Wraiths into Valkyries. Max 4 Valkyries.

The Battlecruiser is slow, but it should be strong. I think making it a summoner isn't a very good idea, it should be a non-attacking unit in my own opinion, but hey, whatever floats your boat .
Ten wraiths.. that's a lot. Especially if they are affected by upgrades, which they probably will be, it will be a bitch to balance I think.
Ehh, I think only one vessel will suffice ;D.
Mm, will it heal the BattleCruiser too?
Lalala, this spell doesn't really jump out... it's kind of.. unfair. XD

Fleet Commander (Carrier)
Generalist.
-Hypercharge: Turns all Interceptors into Arbiters for one attack.
-Conversion: Kills a random Interceptor and grants mana.
-Ultra Construction: Sets Interceptor count to 8.
-Drone Assault: All enemies touching an Interceptor take massive damage.

First of all, the Carrier has 4/8 interceptors, depending on you. Remember that and balance it. Will the Interceptors be invincible? If so, they'll own buildings. If they can die, will it cost to rebuild? See? Balancing a Carrier into a game is hard.
I like this spell .
Remember, locations will first target the unit to the lower left first.
This should be an ulti, and not last forever if that's possible.. .
How much damage...? Remember that the Carrier will most likely have 8 interceptors.

Critter Hunter (Queen)
Probably the weirdest spaceship in the game. Neutral Drones with 1337 HP will spawn randomly and run around the map randomly. If the Critter Hunter casts Spawn Broodlings on one, it gets a bunch of free minerals. Can also cast Ensnare.
-Hunting Companion: Summons a non-hero Queen which can also use Spawn Broodlings on Drones and Ensnare on anything.
-Mineral Redistributor: Creates a Creep Colony (which can be morphed into a Spore Colony for minerals). For each owned Creep/Spore Colony, your allies get free minerals whenever you get minerals.
-Grow Minerals: Gives you minerals.
-Launch Missile: Creates a Hydralisk for one attack.

How much will Broodling cost is the first question in my mind. Will these Neutral Drones give money to the killer if it is not the Queen? If so, how much? Keep in mind that Ensnare will slow down units and make invisible units seen.
Yeah, how much will broodling cost? And Ensnare?
Ehh, it think it should just stay a Creep Colony, otherwise, same as the Engineering Bay, build them in clumps.
How much minerals? o.o
I don't think this spell should be an ulti. It should be switched with the first in my opinion. Otherwise, the queen is defenseless for the most part until the player can reach his ultimate spell.

Escort (Corsair)
Generic support spaceship. Its Disruption Webs also drain mana.
-Remodulate Energy: Restores your Disruption Web energy to full.
-Extend Shields: All nearby allies are temporarily invulnerable.
-Secondary Escort: Summons a Shuttle which casts Extend Shields when you do, for free.
-Nanite Repair: Heals all nearby allies to full for their HP upgrade level.

Rethink the name, please, it just doesn't seem right.. . Also, the Wraith has a Disruption Web also, and since all spells are the property of Player12®, you will not be able to detect who webs when.
Mm.. how much will D-Web cost?
This is going to be abused. I just know it. Around other heroes, buildings... yeah.
This is going to be abused also. XD. How much Shuttles do you intend to let the player possess?
This is also going to be abused. My opinion? Scratch this hero and replace it. Sorry. .

Well yeah ;D. Good luck.

@Bioship: I could make casting the Scourge spell while already in Scourge form turn you back. Come to think of it, people would probably prefer to be able to change back without suiciding the Scourge, so that they can attack from a range. The second spell uses real units, not Hallucinations.

@Black Ops Drone: I know a playable Observer is kind of weird, but I don't really care. I think it could work. The mines will burrowed Zerg units. I know that the Observer is already cloaked, but that doesn't mean I can't decloak it with vision scripts. It'll be a bit complicated to make the Observer become visible when it moves within an enemy's vision range, but that's not a problem. I'm probably going with a set number of lives, but self-destruction doesn't count as a death. The Warp Mine is a pretty odd spell, I admit, and I'm willing to change it if an alternative is proposed.

@Shadowbomber: The Disruption Web is used to deal with those pesky Missile Turrets and Spore Colonies. The Battlecruiser is an anti-structure weapon. I'm going to make it only hit buildings by giving it 0 air damage and temporarily making nearby enemy fliers invulnerable. The whole point of the Pylon IS to go next to the spawn points and Turrets. The Pylon itself is rather weak, though, and a good team/player will be able to take it down easily.

@Space-Time Manipulator: Allied Recall will work by putting a burrowed Zerg unit under the allied spaceships and detecting when it moves near the Arbiter, then moving the associated spaceship. I'm probably going to cap Robotics Facilities at somewhere between three and five. The Dimension Portal moves EVERYTHING within range. Yourself, allied heroes, enemy heroes, AI units, possibly even structures (though probably not). I'm honestly not sure how Black Hole will play out. Keep in mind, though, that the Space-Time Manipulator is rather weak in combat, so the spell can easily backfire. I don't understand what you're talking about when you say that the disruption web is a sprite. Dwebs are units. And even if it was a sprite, it's preplaced, so no big deal.

@Remutator: It seems like I didn't explain quite enough. It's not a tank because of some absurdly high HP or armor stat. It's a tank because its offensive, defensive, and siege forms have their HP tracked separately. This means that if you fight with the offensive mode until its almost dead, then switch to defensive until that form is almost dead, and then switch to siege to kill some structures, then use Shield to get away, you've done a lot more damage than you could just using one form. It's also worth noting that the Shield has rather low HP and armor - it's basically a small HP increase. Full Heal probably isn't the best idea, though - you are right about that.

@Engineering Skiff: I am aware of the issues with buildings. They aren't a problem. The Skiff is supposed to sit in the base most of the time. The Dropships will be controlled by you. Once again, the full heal spell probably wasn't the best idea, so I'll look into a replacement. Maybe a localized repair structures effect instead? There are a few problems with putting turrets in clumps: FFF's Yamato Gun, Shadowbomber's Disruption Web, Remutator's Siege Aspect, and the fact that you can't upgrade Turrets and they're pretty expensive - they cost minerals. (Keep in mind that the Skiff isn't the best farmer.)

@Flying Fighter Factory: Eh. Good point about the upgrades... Would six Wraiths be a good number? And sure about the one Vessel. I only gave him two for another spell I had been considering but discarded. Hyper Repair does not heal the Battlecruiser. Neither does Hyper Upgrade. I don't see why you don't like Hyper Upgrade, though. Please explain.

@Fleet Commander: There will be the full max of eight Interceptors. Each Interceptor is rather expensive, but you start with a few, and I'm debating instantly respawning destroyed ones instead of making the player do it. They are not invulnerable. I guess I could make Ultra Construction not permanent - just store the number of Interceptors owned in a DC, then use that DC to decide how many to kill off when the spell ends. I'm not making it an ulti, because it's not as useful in the endgame when you can afford to buy more Interceptors and as such have closer to full Interceptor counts. Drone Assault is very powerful but expensive, making it hard to use properly. (It's easy to waste most of the damage on empty space.)

@Critter Hunter: No one else can kill the Drones. They're constantly spammed to full health. Spawn Broodlings will probably be free or very expensive; I'm not sure which. I guess that's a good point about the Spore Colonies. Instead, I'll change the spell to summon a Hatchery which can morph to a Lair and then a Hive to increase its effectiveness, for a lot of minerals. And the player being defenseless until he reaches the ulti isn't that big of a deal: With all the minerals this guy gets, he'll be there in no time. Unless, of course, he decides to focus on building Mineral Redistributors and upgrading them, and not get the ulti - which is actually how I was hoping this ship would be played.

@Escort: Removed. I only added it because I hadn't used the Corsair anywhere yet, which is rather... dumb.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Sounds like an interesting project. I had something similar that I worked on for about 6-7 months before deciding that my time would be better spent on other things.

How do you plan to make up for the lack of hero-blocking terrain? No terrain or terrain analogue tends to lead to vastly simplified gameplay-- not always, perhaps, but certainly a lot of the time. I had a few things that I tried in my version, but wouldn't say I was completely happy with how any of them played in testing. Based on my own experience, and on testing/playing other maps of this sort (Tank_7's StarQuest, for instance), the terrain issue is probably the problem to solve in making an air-based AoS. Can fast ships kill slow ships of similar accumulated power and health status by using their superior maneuverability as a micromanagement advantage, or will superior numbers decide the outcome of the fight in advance? By the same token, do the slow ships have ways of killing fast ships, or will the fast ships always be able to pull off winning micro using their speed (assuming reasonably competent players), or simply escape if a fight is not going their way? In a ground-unit-based AoS, the mobility limits imposed by terrain and blocking units does a lot to solve these problems, but air units, without triggers to change their behaviour, go over terrain and through other units.

Your ships look interesting. Are you going to put in a replacement for the Corsair? If so, you might think about using a non-upgraded Shuttle or Overlord, since either one would add a new speed category. Also, either one could have special abilities, in addition to any spells (sort of like how the Queen has a drone-hunting ability in addition to its spells) implemented through pre-loaded units that are dropped to trigger the effect (and then forced to re-load). Also, a couple of other things:

Is the Engineering Skiff created on the ground, then prevented from landing after it lifts, or is it simply created in the air? Keep in mind that a building that starts out lifted and has never landed receives a bonus to movement speed.

Also, be careful with carriers if you have hostile computer air units around. The computer doesn't like carriers. If you don't know what I mean by this, well, I'm sure you'll find out soon enough.

A very good question, and one which I will need to think about. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

I had actually been considering a "Missile Boat". It would be a Shuttle, and the spells would load various missiles into it, which could then be fired - for free - later. I probably wouldn't give it the speed upgrade.

I was going to create it lifted to keep things simple. I was not aware of the speed bonus, though. How fast does a building with said bonus go, in relation to other units?

The only issue I'm aware of is that the computer tends to fire on the Interceptors instead of the Carrier itself, and that was on a really old patch so it might have been fixed. Care to elaborate?

@Missile Boat: Nice. I'd be interested to see how that idea develops.

@Buildings: It's still a bit slower than a BC, but significantly faster than a non-boosted building (which in turn is slightly faster than an Overlord). It's not super-fast by any means, but it's a bit less of a stationary target than a regular building.

@Carrier: If you attack a computer unit with a carrier, even if the computer isn't running an AI script, it will send unoccupied units in the general region (and it really is quite general) to attack it. So if you have different "lanes" of computer air units, and your carrier engages the computer's forces along one of those lanes, unless the lanes are very far apart, the computer will send units from the next lane over to "help out", even if those units were originally sent to a different destination by an Order trigger. The result is that, unless the spawns are very weak and/or slow, the carrier gets the crud killed out of it. Or if the spawns ARE weak, the carrier gets a massive feed, while players feeding in other lanes are denied income.

@Missile Boat: I'll finish the concept and post it, then.

@Buildings: Sounds good. I'll do it.

@Carrier: That's not good... Does it apply to hero Carriers as well? If not, then there's no problem, but if it does then I'll have to do a rather complicated hackjob to fix it. What I'd probably do is just re-issue the Attack order to all AI units every few seconds if the Carrier is within a certain distance of an enemy AI unit.

Unfortunately yes, they respond the same way to hero carriers. My eventual "solution", if you can even call it that, was to simply build around it: the carrier was a brute-force-based ship, and using interceptor micro and attack timing (i.e. using the displayed countdown timer to fight at times when the coast is clear) became a skill requirement to balance out the times that the carrier would be fighting by pure strength rather than micro. To be honest, it wasn't so much a solution as something I could say to myself so that I wouldn't feel quite so bad about it...hopefully you'll have better luck.

Not exactly. Actions such as Kill 1 Interceptor at 'Location' will target the unit with the lowest x-coordinate. If two units share that x-coordinate, they will target the unit that most recently entered that x-coordinate.

Ship list updated somewhat. Biggest changes: Engineering Skiff now needs both minerals and mana to build Turrets, Flying Fighter Factory has much lower maximum summons, and Escort has been removed and replaced with Missile Boat.

I'm thinking of removing one of the heroes (probably Bioship) and use the unit freed up for a spawn unit. Currently all I have available for spawns are Corsairs, Scouts (and heroes), and Battlecruisers (and the Norad II) and possibly a Science Vessel. Good idea?

Devourers could be interesting as a buildable spawn, because the acid spores make them good support units. Also, wouldn't converting the Bioship to a spawn free up the Kakaru, too? If you don't want to lose out on hero selection, you could use the Devourer as a buildable spawn and the Kakaru (which would add some diversity, since it has a somewhat unusual way of maneuvering; try flying one around and you'll see what I mean) as a hero, if you don't mind having another non-attacking hero to balance...

Hm... Kakaru hero? Interesting. I'll try to think of an interesting role for it - but I would like to know what you're referring to when you say "an unusual way of maneuvering" (though I'll check for myself when I get home).

Alright, it doesn't look like much more is going to come out of this topic. I'm not surprised, though: I honestly just started this map to learn SCMDraft, so I didn't put too much effort into the hero concepts. If you want to see some of my real ideas, look here: http://www.staredit.net/223032/

1337 hp? Is that a reference to halo legends? Or am I slightly insane?

1337 = Leet, or Elite. See this link for more info.

Ah, so I AM insane XD