Hi everyone, I got interested in melee mapmaking yesterday (literally). So, this is my first melee map I have ever created. How can I improve? Thanks.



http://www.filefront.com/15865181/Time-Ruins.scm/

Not too bad for a first attempt, but keep these things in mind when mapping:

-Will I be able to comfortably fit about 20 gateways, 200 psi worth of pylons, and all the tech buildings for Protoss in the mains?
-Is the natural too far away from the main? Will a worker be able to reach it from the main in 8 seconds or so?
-Do I follow the Gas Rule? (Put vespene geysers directly on top or to the left of the start locations in mains so they mine optimally)
-Is the natural choke about 7 matrices wide/tall?
-Is the main choke too big? (The norm is a standard-width ramp or a 2-matrix tall horizontal choke.) If so, is it partially blocked off with a neutral building/stacked minerals? If not, why is it that big? Do other aspects of the map compensate for this? (Don't worry about that for now)
-Are there uncomfortable niches or "sharp peninsulas" of walkable land?
-Are the same doodads used over and over for a purpose that can be accomplished with normal terrain?
-Are the islands too big? The typical size should be approximately 15x15 - 20x20.
-Are the rush distances between the bases the same? Your map has the same problem as my first try here: (4)Parallelism.scm (128x128, observer incl.) the top/bottom bases are much further apart than the left/right bases. Play a few games with it in single player and check rush distance with workers.

Thanks! I'll try to modify it based on your tips. I'll see if I can post it up later.

By the way, for some reason the link to your map doesn't work. It says error when I open it.

Remove the semicolon from the end of the URL; SEN's URL parser included it by accident.

You should also make the middle of the map much larger, I foresee a T>P advantage without much room for the P to move about.

Also, most of your islands are really, really huge.

Hmm... based on Aristocrat's post it says islands are about 15x15 - 20x20. The one in the curent may is about 18x20, which does fall in the range, but I do agree with you CecilSunkure, the islands are quite big.

Well, I'm having a problem. You know high dirt and water, right? The front side of high dirt can touch water without any dirt in between, but the backside of highdirt touching water leaves a little space of dirt in between. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Let's focus one thing at a time for now.



Move the naturals closer and post the map image.

Sorry Ciara, I already got pretty deep into modifying it, but I tried to implement in what you said.



http://www.filefront.com/15868779/4-Time-Ruins-Upd2.scm/

Changelog:

-Increased main base size

-Moved natural a little closer to main

-Moved main bases closer to center
-Moved walled-in bases to corners
-Added terrain from North and South extending towards middle
-Removed the long lines with the twilight sprites that extended towards the mid
>Rush times more balanced; only slightly different.

-Loosened up middle. Only 4 temple walls instead of 8.
>Terran more balanced with Protoss in middle

-Decreased Island Size
>Not too much of an advantage for claimers of island.

-Island tileset dirt instead of high dirt
>More room (than if it were to be high dirt)

-Removed Sprites; Removed Doodads

-Added one tank hole for each main base with 4 bengalaas in each tank hole.
-Added one tank hole for each corner base with 1 bengalaas in each tank hole.

-Decreased natural choke size and direction

I'm not sure if I should keep those tank holes with bengalaas, I might remove them. I just thought it was interesting.

Any more tips that I can improve on? Thanks everyone!

I noticed the top island is messed up with some high dirt at the edge

EDIT
This time I made the original image bigger so you could see in more detail.

Tentative Things:
-Removing tank holes with bengalaas
-Moving natural even closer to main (which I probably will try)
-Making the side expansions into islands.

I would change the corner expansions into the naturals by opening them up - naturals have to cover the main.

larger mains and close nats
Edit : new version top right is blocky

The whole path to your enemy's base is a giant choke... Lulz.

Quote from HCM™Aristocrat

The whole path to your enemy's base is a giant choke... Lulz.

The quotation means that Terran will walk all over the other races and Protoss and Zerg will not be able to flank to deal damage (ground units). Lurkers might be useful though. Ultimately, though, I'd say a standard Tank-heavy mech build would be enough to win Terran the game, unless Protoss and Zerg pull something wicked and manage to expand fast enough to get air power.

hurrdurr i don't melee i should get out of this forum

the best way I defend when using zerg is that I burrow lurkers at the back of the choke to my base, I burrow about 20-40 zerglings at the other end of the choke, then I have about 20-30 hydrolisks closer to the lurkers. If I get rushed by tanks and marines (like usually) I wait for the tanks to siege, then I move my hydralisks further back to get out of tank range, and bring the marines to the lurkers. When 19/20 of the marine army is destroyed I chase down the rest with the hydralisks while the tanks are unsieging. when the tanks proceed ahead and siege again (too close to lings to shoot) I unburrow my zerglings and release carnage. zerglings ravage the tanks while they unsiege. While unsieging I bring my lurkers further ahead, then move my hydralisks behind the tanks so they can't run. And there ou go, completely dominating terran in a small area where they have the 'advantage'.

Quote

the best way I defend when using zerg is that I burrow lurkers at the back of the choke to my base, I burrow about 20-40 zerglings at the other end of the choke, then I have about 20-30 hydrolisks closer to the lurkers. If I get rushed by tanks and marines (like usually) I wait for the tanks to siege, then I move my hydralisks further back to get out of tank range, and bring the marines to the lurkers. When 19/20 of the marine army is destroyed I chase down the rest with the hydralisks while the tanks are unsieging. when the tanks proceed ahead and siege again (too close to lings to shoot) I unburrow my zerglings and release carnage. zerglings ravage the tanswhile then unsiege. While unsieging I bring my lurkers further ahaed, then move my hydralisks behind the tanks so they can't run. And there ou go, completely domination terran in a small area where they have the 'advantage'.

Most decent T's scan for lurks on chokes and cliffs. You would get found out and get owned hardcore. No offense, I'm not trying to be mean. Just being realistic.

the tanks would be dead by the time they scan... unless they have a hotkey on the comsat station.
EDIT:
I have only even played against one player who scanned the chokepoint before proceeding.

Quote

I have only even played against one player who scanned the chokepoint before proceeding.

Right. Bad opponents. Decent Ts will always scan for stop lurkers and burrowed units on terrains that have a chance of being ambushed. And, lip starcraft'ing is not the way to go. What if he said, Tanks wouldn't be dead by the time 'they scan'? It doesn't take a millisecond for me to scan. 9s click, 123 again.

Quote from StarBlue

the tanks would be dead by the time they scan... unless they have a hotkey on the comsat station.

Who doesn't have a hotkey on the comsat station? O.o

Play iCCup, as I said. Not Bnet pubbies who have trouble understanding how to a-move.

12 o clock and 6 o clocks gas is different in placment

9 o'clock and 3 o'clock geysers could also be mirrored with a gas near the top of the expansion.

Quote from StarBlue

the best way I defend when using zerg is that I burrow lurkers at the back of the choke to my base, I burrow about 20-40 zerglings at the other end of the choke, then I have about 20-30 hydrolisks closer to the lurkers. If I get rushed by tanks and marines (like usually) I wait for the tanks to siege, then I move my hydralisks further back to get out of tank range, and bring the marines to the lurkers. When 19/20 of the marine army is destroyed I chase down the rest with the hydralisks while the tanks are unsieging. when the tanks proceed ahead and siege again (too close to lings to shoot) I unburrow my zerglings and release carnage. zerglings ravage the tanks while they unsiege. While unsieging I bring my lurkers further ahead, then move my hydralisks behind the tanks so they can't run. And there ou go, completely dominating terran in a small area where they have the 'advantage'.

Err, are you playing fastest or something? You plan to have burrow, 20-40 zerglings, 20-30 hydras, and some lurkers when the terran doesn't have science vessels? Also, to get that kind of army, you would need quite a few bases (or just play fastest), so the terran would have multiple places to attack. The terran should have science vessels, and even if they don't, most would scan the choke first, like others have already said.