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[2017-7-05. : 8:47 pm]  Voyager7456 -- We have obscenity laws in the US that often require subjective interpretation. It's not like there isn't a precedent.[2017-7-05. : 8:45 pm]  Pr0nogo -- yeah, inciting hatred is shitty, but when you have people who will take the piss out of hate speech for jokes, is that now against the law?[2017-7-05. : 8:45 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: Voyager7456 the meaning of speech evolves over time, which is why i can call my friends 'fag' and not mean 'gay male' Yeah and so our interpretation of laws evolves over time to.[2017-7-05. : 8:44 pm] Pr0nogo -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: I think it's unethical to allow speech that exists solely to incite hatred. the meaning of speech evolves over time, which is why i can call my friends 'fag' and not mean 'gay male'[2017-7-05. : 8:43 pm] Pr0nogo -- either you need to legislate a specific clause that calls for case-by-case analysis, intent, etc. instead of blindly applying the law wherever it could fit (so we don't have jokes becoming illegal)[2017-7-05. : 8:43 pm] Voyager7456 -- I think it's unethical to allow speech that exists solely to incite hatred.[2017-7-05. : 8:42 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: laws outlawing speech are either unenforceable or unethical That's like, just your opinion man.[2017-7-05. : 8:42 pm] Voyager7456 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Anti-hate speech sounds great, the tricky part is getting everyone to agree on what "hate speech" means. (and will mean in the future) Drafting laws is always tricky.[2017-7-05. : 8:42 pm]  Moose -- Anti-hate speech sounds great, the tricky part is getting everyone to agree on what "hate speech" means. (and will mean in the future)[2017-7-05. : 8:41 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: I assume it's all inherently a subjective perception where you yourself classify something as hate speech and as a result it should be forcibly removed from public discourse Clearly not the case since as you mentioned, there are laws in other countries. So it is a thing that can be codified.[2017-7-05. : 8:39 pm] Pr0nogo -- I assume it's all inherently a subjective perception where you yourself classify something as hate speech and as a result it should be forcibly removed from public discourse[2017-7-05. : 8:38 pm] Voyager7456 -- Which is why I have to settle for the cudgel of public opinion right now.[2017-7-05. : 8:38 pm] Voyager7456 -- (TBF, I'm actually very much in favor of anti-hate speech legislation. But as much as I would like it, there is none in the US.)[2017-7-05. : 8:37 pm] Pr0nogo -- which is where we're headed and where a lot of european countries are already at[2017-7-05. : 8:37 pm] Pr0nogo -- yeah, the difference is that the free marketplace of ideas is allowed to weed out those ideas that the constituents disagree with or don't want around[2017-7-05. : 8:36 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: because plenty of people think that you should lose your job, your freedom, your life, etc if you simply disagree with them Difference between "people boycott your business" and "you are imprisoned/killed/whatever"[2017-7-05. : 8:36 pm] Pr0nogo -- and I imagine this school of thought is on both sides of the aisle, despite most of the noisemakers being from one end[2017-7-05. : 8:35 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: but do you believe someone's livelihood should be threatened or even taken away because of their opinions? Yeah, I'm OK with it. There are lots of businesses I don't partake in because of their opinions.[2017-7-05. : 8:35 pm] Pr0nogo -- because plenty of people think that you should lose your job, your freedom, your life, etc if you simply disagree with them[2017-7-05. : 8:34 pm] Moose -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: Pr0nogo You can proclaim your racist opinions all you want, just don't be surprised when people stop coming over Well, other racists might still come over X^D[2017-7-05. : 8:34 pm] Pr0nogo -- but do you believe someone's livelihood should be threatened or even taken away because of their opinions?[2017-7-05. : 8:34 pm] Voyager7456 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Voyager7456 Then don't say ambiguous things like this Voyager7456 when they don't have special meaning. Wouldn't even be reading into it if it wasn't said ROFL Damned if you do, damned if you don't.[2017-7-05. : 8:34 pm] Voyager7456 -- In no way is your freedom of speech threatened by others' freedom of association[2017-7-05. : 8:34 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: i'm not comfortable with racists but i'm less comfortable knowing that thoughts and opinions can be removed from the mainstream consciousness You can proclaim your racist opinions all you want, just don't be surprised when people stop coming over[2017-7-05. : 8:33 pm] Pr0nogo -- this isn't specific to this case, i don't know enough about it to provide a serious commentary on it, i'm just speaking broadly[2017-7-05. : 8:33 pm] Pr0nogo -- i'm not comfortable with racists but i'm less comfortable knowing that thoughts and opinions can be removed from the mainstream consciousness[2017-7-05. : 8:32 pm] Moose -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: I think it's BS to twist leniency into a threat Then don't say ambiguous things like this Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: "We may publish updates to this story if events change" AKA every news story ever when they don't have special meaning. Wouldn't even be reading into it if it wasn't said ROFL[2017-7-05. : 8:32 pm] Voyager7456 -- Please refer to Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: NudeRaider It never applied. "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech" Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: TBH, freedom of a speech a thing errybody want to get mad AF about, but nobody want to RTFM about it LMAO [2017-7-05. : 8:31 pm] Pr0nogo -- the second you start censoring """problematic""" opinions and thoughts is the second you start regressing back to stalingrad m8[2017-7-05. : 8:30 pm] Moose -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: america was a mistake Would've crushed that revolution in the bud if they had the internet to trace people shitposting about it LMAO[2017-7-05. : 8:30 pm] Voyager7456 -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: >in hot water for memes Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: NudeRaider Also it wasn't the .gif he was apologizing for, the dude had a long history of horrible Reddit comments calling for genocide, using racial slurs and other bigoted crap [2017-7-05. : 8:27 pm] Moose -- It's easier to be okay with them having that power when the guy is a total shitbag, but that may not always be the case.[2017-7-05. : 8:27 pm] Moose -- I'm not saying anything about his opinions, I'm just saying that power makes me uncomfortable.[2017-7-05. : 8:25 pm] Voyager7456 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Voyager7456 We have altered the procedure. Pray we do not alter it further. What, further in his favor? lmao[2017-7-05. : 8:24 pm] Moose -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: It's saying "hey, we did you a favor by keeping your identity secret, but that's not normal procedure" We have altered the procedure. Pray we do not alter it further.[2017-7-05. : 8:24 pm] Moose -- I get if he goes out and stabs somebody or whatever that'll be reported but I would have assumed that anyway.[2017-7-05. : 8:22 pm] Voyager7456 -- It's saying "hey, we did you a favor by keeping your identity secret, but that's not normal procedure"[2017-7-05. : 8:20 pm] Voyager7456 -- Important to outline it's anonymity for this story and not blanket immunity from any future reporting IMO[2017-7-05. : 8:19 pm] Voyager7456 -- Because if the next day this dude goes and does something newsworthy he'd be all up and crying "BUT YOU SAID YOU WOULDN'T REVEAL MY IDENTITY" |