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[2016-11-10. : 6:43 am]  CecilSunkure -- Yeah it's definitely bad for those people. But their ancestors are living the US now, which is incredibly lucky for the ancestors[2016-11-10. : 6:42 am]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I think forcibly taking people from their homeland is bad, and I wouldn't call that lucky[2016-11-10. : 6:41 am] CecilSunkure -- unless of course you think living in africa is better, economically, than living in the US[2016-11-10. : 6:40 am] CecilSunkure -- Therefor, natives just so happen to need economic help, and blacks just so happen to have gotten really lucky[2016-11-10. : 6:40 am] CecilSunkure -- So native americans were put into an economic disadvantage, and blacks shipped from africa ended up in an economic advantage[2016-11-10. : 6:38 am] CecilSunkure -- Well actually I pointed out economic benefits, and they just so happen to be of a particular race, which is mostly irrelevant to the economic benefit[2016-11-10. : 6:36 am] CecilSunkure -- And if we talk about blacks coming to america as slaves... Well all blacks in the US are now at a huge economic advantage over the majority of africans[2016-11-10. : 6:35 am] CecilSunkure -- It's like the SAT score thing. If we lower the bar across the board for acceptance it's easy to see that won't fix real problems. But if we focus on racially adjusting the bar, it makes it much harder to notice that it also doesn't fix real problems[2016-11-10. : 6:35 am] CecilSunkure -- well guilt is about intention. So if our actions are motivated by economic reasoning, then there's no race involved[2016-11-10. : 6:34 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- Native Americans are a different race, they're more closely related to Asians[2016-11-10. : 6:33 am] CecilSunkure -- Their land was stolen, their culture was destroyed, so it makes sense to help them out just by economic reasoning[2016-11-10. : 6:33 am] CecilSunkure -- And I think that's a race thing by proxy -- a giant group of people were killed. So those people should probably be helped out since they are now at a huge economic disadvantage[2016-11-10. : 6:32 am] CecilSunkure -- Personally I think the only racial thing we should care about in any way is native americans[2016-11-10. : 6:32 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: But wouldn't the best course of action to just not have a question asking for your race at all? probably[2016-11-10. : 6:31 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- It doesn't matter what race I am, so I shouldn't have to feel obligated to put it[2016-11-10. : 6:31 am] CecilSunkure -- But wouldn't the best course of action to just not have a question asking for your race at all?[2016-11-10. : 6:31 am] CecilSunkure -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: How? It's making racism go away by not talking about it I mean it's definitely better than not having an other option at all[2016-11-10. : 6:31 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- How? It's making racism go away by not talking about it[2016-11-10. : 6:30 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- can't you just mark "Other" or "Prefer not to say" on your race? xD[2016-11-10. : 6:28 am] CecilSunkure -- But when we started this conversation you were fixated on race and seemed to express that this fixation was justifiable by pointing to past race crimes[2016-11-10. : 6:27 am] CecilSunkure -- Notice how we didn't need to bring in past race crimes, or white guilt, or race at all. I think this is really important.[2016-11-10. : 6:27 am] CecilSunkure -- So it sounds like it's definitely way better to focus on income disparity, as opposed to racial disparity[2016-11-10. : 6:26 am] CecilSunkure -- This will have racial, social, and emotional consequences that are extremely negative. CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: These are all horrible things, and these horrible feelings are completely validated by the racist policy of SAT score adjustments. CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: They will feel like they need a handicap because they are black. CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: They will feel horrible, like something is wrong with them. They will feel like they were mistreated by the system, and that they are victims of modern day racism. CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: It hasn't worked as intended, hence we are talking about it. Also why would it work? If black people are told they are smart enough and have prerequisite knowledge to attend higher education, get there, and then struggle, how do you think they will feel? [2016-11-10. : 6:26 am] CecilSunkure -- BUT. The current state is that not just low-income students, but all black students get racially adjusted test scores.[2016-11-10. : 6:25 am] CecilSunkure -- And we both probably agree that if that happens, then those highly educated and skilled students will lift their community out of poverty over time[2016-11-10. : 6:24 am] CecilSunkure -- That would shoot poor students, especially those from poor black communities suffering a geographic and economic poverty spiral, straight into higher education[2016-11-10. : 6:23 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- ok, then raise the test scores of those who come from low-income families[2016-11-10. : 6:22 am] CecilSunkure -- I end up answering all of your points, and you fail to acknowledge that adjusting scores is racist[2016-11-10. : 6:21 am] CecilSunkure -- "Because more blacks would have opportunity for higher education." You will respond. OK. Fine. More blacks will get the chance to go to higher education. OK. But I think the problem in the K-12 sector, not in getting into good schools.[2016-11-10. : 6:20 am] CecilSunkure -- SO THEN WHY WOULD RACIALLY ADJUSTING THE SCORES MAGICALLY WORK[2016-11-10. : 6:20 am] CecilSunkure -- And in the end we all agree that SAT scores shouldn't be adjusted across the board, because that's not addressing a real problem.[2016-11-10. : 6:20 am] CecilSunkure -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: I agree with what Ahli said on that: Ahli The non-racist and correct response would be to lower SAT score requirements across the board. To which you will respond "but that won't solve the socioeconomic problem with income disparity". I will respond "it's an economic problem, not a socio-racial problem".[2016-11-10. : 6:20 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- and some will succeed, and they are the ones who will be rewarded more scholarships to continue[2016-11-10. : 6:19 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- obviously they're not going to be giving scholarships to like some 8th grade dropout[2016-11-10. : 6:18 am] CecilSunkure -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: like here CecilSunkure you are suggesting that black people are actually incapable or undercapable, which, if you actually mean it, is legit racist I said "if a black person struggled". That's a hypothetical situation to describe cause and effect. That's not racist[2016-11-10. : 6:18 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- like here CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: It hasn't worked as intended, hence we are talking about it. Also why would it work? If black people are told they are smart enough and have prerequisite knowledge to attend higher education, get there, and then struggle, how do you think they will feel? you are suggesting that black people are actually incapable or undercapable, which, if you actually mean it, is legit racist[2016-11-10. : 6:17 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I agree with what Ahli said on that: AhliAhli shouted: I assume that more people can pass in a university than there are accepted, cecil [2016-11-10. : 6:17 am] CecilSunkure -- These are all horrible things, and these horrible feelings are completely validated by the racist policy of SAT score adjustments.[2016-11-10. : 6:16 am] CecilSunkure -- They will feel like they need a handicap because they are black.[2016-11-10. : 6:16 am] CecilSunkure -- They will feel horrible, like something is wrong with them. They will feel like they were mistreated by the system, and that they are victims of modern day racism.[2016-11-10. : 6:16 am] CecilSunkure -- It hasn't worked as intended, hence we are talking about it. Also why would it work? If black people are told they are smart enough and have prerequisite knowledge to attend higher education, get there, and then struggle, how do you think they will feel?[2016-11-10. : 6:14 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: Like that's some hardcore devil's advocate going on here, or you really do believe in your arguments no, I think you're thinking I have a position on some war against white people[2016-11-10. : 6:14 am] CecilSunkure -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: CecilSunkure It's historical racism from segregation laws, by being forced into ghettos with underfunded schools, that nobody bothered trying to fix --> white guilt[2016-11-10. : 6:13 am] O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I'm saying that if it works as I think is intended, and I haven't looked in to it or looked in to effectiveness or anything, it will be self-resolving. I do agree CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: FaRTy1billion Yeah, because of K-12 geographic/economic problems is a huge part, but as higher education becomes more critical there are those who cannot afford it[2016-11-10. : 6:12 am] CecilSunkure -- im leaning to the latter, and think white guilt is very serious![2016-11-10. : 6:12 am] CecilSunkure -- Like that's some hardcore devil's advocate going on here, or you really do believe in your arguments[2016-11-10. : 6:12 am] lil-Inferno -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Trump supporters literally said they would rather have the next Hitler than Clinton yeah every single one of them said that[2016-11-10. : 6:12 am] CecilSunkure -- And I'm just starting not to believe you when you say: FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: CecilSunkure I never said I agreed with that particular policy. But I agree the issue it's trying to tackle is legitimate I just have trouble believing you[2016-11-10. : 6:10 am] CecilSunkure -- Sorry messed my quote up. Things that sound like white guilt: FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: Whites get richer, blacks get poorer [2016-11-10. : 6:10 am] CecilSunkure -- But you keep bringing up things that sound like white guilt CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: FaRTy1billion and you seem to defend racist policy with a "means justify the ends" attitude FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: Improved test scores -> higher acceptance in to colleges -> higher education available for an entire population who would not normally have it available -> better jobs for said people -> can afford better educations for their children -> such policies stop being necessary |
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