I just started playing it recently and am getting used to the entire system. I like to plan what I'm going to do well in advance, so although I'm far from actually starting the AP grind, I'd like some advice on Materia setups. I honestly don't know where to turn to for FF7 based help (it's an old game after all), so I'm hoping that a forums based on game creation will give me more reliable information than some others.

First things first. I don't want every character to spam Knights of the Round and Mime (I know it's godly). I want them to feel...more unique. Specialized if you will, yet still effective gameplay wise. Secondly, === means a link.

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CHAR 1: Warrior
The first character I want to build is a fighter. I want to use Barret for this as he has the highest damage multiplier on his ultimate weapon and the best limit break. I hope to equip him with the wizard bracelet for maximum slots, though I'm not sure if the lack of evasion from mystile will cause him to die too quickly. He will be focused on 4x cut with added cut (5 hits per attack) and 8 counter attacks. Although counter mime has more damage potential especially with his ultimate, this messes up when other party members attack, so I'm sticking with counter attacks. I did some reading and found that there's a maximum of 8 command slots per character, so any more than 8 counter attacks won't work. There's no Mega All because that overrides double cut and turns it into slash all.

CHAR 1: Materia (16 total)
W-Item (for Hero Drinks)
CounterAttack x8
Cover (counters any attack to the party)
Double Cut (4 hits)
Added Cut === Master Command (adds an extra attack to Double Cut)
HP Absorb === Master Command (healing)
HP Plus (to survive the attack, necessary before countering)

CHAR 1: Problems
1) I don't know if I can use Master Command twice and still have it affect the 4x attack command. I read somewhere that having two Knights of the Round Materia links causes two KotR to show up, so the effects were not cumulative. Does this affect Master skills though? Verification here would be great.
2) Added Cut is bugging me. Will downing a Hero Drink cause Added Cut to hit myself? In that case, I will have to take out Added Cut === Master Command and use a mystile instead of a wizard bracelet.

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CHAR 2: Mage
The second member will be the mage. Here things get tricky and there's a good chance this setup won't work. I want a mage to cast a spell as many times as possible, achieving a large amount of damage. This involves using Quadra Magic, MP Turbo, W-Magic, and Reflect. I read somewhere that casting a spell that hits all targets on your own reflected party causes it the spell to hit the enemy 3x. Unfortunately, I don't know if this is possible. The source isn't reliable as they claimed it worked with Ultima and Comet2, which are both unreflectable spells.

CHAR 2: Materia (14 total)
Mega All (hits everyone)
W-Magic (casts magic 2x a round)
Quadra Magic === Master Magic (uses magic spell 4x)
MP Turbo === Master Magic (improves magic damage)
MP Absorb === Master Magic (keeps the MP up)
Master Command (if Quadra runs out, Mime a KotR from char 3)
Phoenix === Final Hit (revives on death)
Magic Counter === Full Cure OR HP Absorb === Master Magic (healing)
HP Plus (to survive longer)

CHAR 2: Problems
There's a bunch of problems here.
1) Does using a magical attack that hits all targets on your own reflected party cause it to attack 3x? So, a reflected Quadra'd magic spell cast twice due to W-Magic would then attack 3 * 4 * 2 = 24 times? If it does reflect properly, will these 3x attacks each hit all enemies due to Mega All, or just 1 random enemy?
2) Can I use Master Magic more than once and have all linked effects work on a single cast? I read somewhere that having two Knights of the Round Materia links causes two KotR to show up, so the effects were not cumulative. Does this affect master skills though?
3) Will reflect cause Magic Counter === Full Cure to screw up? If so, I have to use HP Absorb instead.
4) Will using Quadra Magic === Master Magic cause me to waste a Quadra when casting Reflect or Shield on my party? Or can I decide which magics to Quadra in the menu? If I don't waste Quadras with Reflects and Shields, I can leave it at Master Magics for more versatility. Otherwise, I have to stick to one materia (probably Contain) instead of the Masters.

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CHAR 3: Summoner
The easy one. As KotR needs the least Materias to maximize its damage, this character also has additional support spells.

CHAR 3: Materia (total 14)
Knights of the Round === MP Turbo (boosts damage of KotR)
Master Summon === MP Absorb (keeps the MP up)
W-Summon (can cast summons 2x a turn)
Phoenix === Final Hit (revives on death)
Magic Counter === Full Cure OR HP Absorb === Master Summon (healing)
HP Plus (survivability)
Enemy Skill (Big Guard)
Sneak-Attack === Time (auto Haste, so can immediately cast Big Guard)
Master Command (utility purposes like Mime)

CHAR 3: Problems
1) Will reflect cause Magic Counter === Full Cure to screw up? If so, I have to use HP Absorb instead.
2) Will reflect cause Big Guard (an enemy skill) to screw up? Big Guard is not reflectable, but its effects (Haste, Mbarrier, Barrier) are.

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In addition to answering the questions, any tips on my planned Materia setups would be great too. Thanks a lot for the help!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 1 2008, 6:00 am by SelfPossessed.

Note: The things I didn't address were things I don't know. It saves space instead of having 10 quotes with "I dunno" below them.

I'm not sure if the materia links will work this way because Double Cut is not a part of Master Command.

I've never heard of that with KotR. Equipping the same materia doesn't stack the casting, but it does combine effects from materia linked to those materia in one cast.

It definitely doesn't give you an option in the menu, that much I remember. I dunno why you would want to cast anything besides Ultima four times.

You know there's a max 9999, right?

You have a lot of work cut out for yourself obtaining, five Master Commands, three Master Magics, and three Master Summons. OK, you get one of each from beating Emerald Weapon. Master Commands are the easiest to form, but you'll need four after that. And two Master Magics/Summons are going to take awhile. You don't need this setup to beat the game. If you don't plan to use the W-Item cheat and Magic Pots, you might die of old age.

Thanks for the help Moose. I'm trying to sort out which things I read are true and which are false.

Double Cut supposedly overrides the attack command (which is why it won't work with Mega All, which overrides both Attack and Double Cut with Slash All). Pairing something with Master Command (like HP Absorb) supposedly makes it work with the attack command, which is now overridden by Double Cut. Theoretically, from what I read, using this Materia combination causes HP Absorb to work with Double Cut. I can't test it myself as I haven't gotten any Master Commands yet.

So, having something like
KotR === MP Turbo
KotR === MP Absorb
Would result in a SINGLE KotR that will do extra damage and absorb MP? The source I read this from must be false then. I wish I had something to test this with (I'm still too early in the game).

If this is true, then I have to decide which spell to use now as Quadra Magic === Master Magic would screw everything up. If what I read about reflecting multi hit spells is true, then I'm leaning towards Contain. Otherwise, it's Comet2 or Ultima.

The reason for using a reflectable spell is theoretically as follows. Again, I need confirmation from a reputable source before I start AP grinding this setup for nothing.
1) Cast reflect on your entire party
2) Cast a reflectable magic spell (using Mega All and Contain does this) on your OWN party
3) Supposedly, this causes the spell to reflect from your party onto the enemy THREE times, one per party member.

Again, I don't know if this actually works as I don't even have Reflect yet. If it does, the potential damage far exceeds Ultima, though there's the weakness of it being reflected back and that it's elemental, which can be resisted. To compare damage though:
1) Ultima does 6.5625x Base, not elemental damage, not reflectable. With Quadra (4 castings) and W-Magic (cast Quadra twice a turn), that's 6.5625 * 4 * 2 = 52.5x base damage per turn.
2) The weakest Contain spell does 5.9375x base. If the reflect works, then the damage with Quadra and W-Magic is as follows. 5.9375 * 3 * 4 * 2 = 142.5x base damage per turn. That and there's status effects and the chance that the enemy is weak to one of the four elements that Contain has. That's a LOT more damage IF this works like I read.

HOWEVER, I ALSO read somewhere that Ultima hits multiple times, not just once. If this is true, how many hits does Ultima do? If hits enough times, then the damage probably exceeds even the Contain and Reflect combination, even if that works.

KotR hits 13 times, not once, so using MP Turbo on it supposedly works out well. Its potential damage in one turn, especially considering W-Summon, is ridiculous. 9999 * 13 * 2 = 259974 damage per turn. I just don't want to spam KotR all day.

If it comes to it, I can decrease it some. I might remove Added Cut from the warrior, so that's only 1 Master Command for him. For the other two, I can stick with Mime instead, which is less flexible but allows me to only need a single Master Command.

Instead of three Master Magics, I can instead just use 2 of a single Materia (like Contain or Ultima), 3 if I can't use the Magic Counter === Full Cure combo when Reflect is on. It again decreases flexibility, but I probably need to anyways since Quadra Magic === Master Magic might screw me over each time I cast Shield or Reflect on the party. I then need 1 Master Magics (so I can Shield and Reflect my entire party), but 2-3 of the specific spell I'm using.

I'll only need a single Master Summon. I can then use two KotR (only one mastered) to achieve the HP and MP Absorb. If Magic Counter === Full Cure works even with Reflect is on, I'll only need 1 KotR and 1 Master Summon.

Of course, this is still all up in the air as I don't know if what I'm trying to do will work.


Again, thanks for the help Moose!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 2 2008, 12:39 am by SelfPossessed.

Damn, sure have a lot of thinking going into an RPG without that much.

When I fought Sephiroth, I didn't have KotR or Master Materia for that matter. Unless you're planning on taking out those weapons, you won't need any Master Materia or any of those super powerful summons. Really, what I had was something like this:

Cloud - [Paladin]
Restore == All
Heal == All
Revive
Cover
Deathblow
Alexander == Elemental
HP Plus (I was low level, so this was quite useful)

Yuffie - [Red Mage]
Fire
Lightning == All
Ice == All
Comet
Ultima == MP Absorb
Barrier
Time == All
Restore == All

Cid - [Thief/Summoner hybrid]
Steal
Throw
Time == Sneak Attack
Sense
Enemy Skill == All
W-Item
Bahamut == Bahamut Neo
Bahamut Zero == Odin

Or something like that. I lost my save game a long time ago.

If you have two or more of the same materia on a character, those materia stack. In this way, you can attach different Support Materia to each similar Materia to give it additional effects:
Having Lightning == Absorb HP and Lightning == Absorb MP will cause your Bolt spells to absorb both HP and MP when used.

NO. The Added Cut effect only activates when the attached Materia targets the enemy. Even then, the Added Cut will work on either a single enemy or one enemy in a group at random.

I love Final Fantasy Physics. If you cast a spell that hits EVERYONE, including your own reflected party, you will reflect the spell into the air, while the rest of the spell that isn't reflected hits the enemy (unless they have reflect, it'll go to the caster). Therefore, having Reflect on your party will not effect the number of hits on the enemy.

Not exactly sure that you can counter an enemy with a non-offensive spell. I'd say that, if it works like Final Attack materia, it'll cast Full Cure on whoever has that materia equipped.

Also not exactly sure here. If I'm right, Quadra Magic cannot be paired with Support/White magic (healing, barriers, etc). Therefore, it'll have no effect on your Reflect/Shield spells.
Also of note is that you may not pair a Materia with both Quadra Magic and All/Mega All. Doing so would override the All/Mega All effect, I think.

Dang, tough questions! I'd say that either the spell succeeds (and gives you the effects) or the spell dissapates (because of Reflects effects, counters the spell). I'd say the former.

Thanks for the help Greo.

That's good. That means I don't have to master all the materias I'm using, only one of them, which will save me some time!

But the problem is that I'm pairing it with Master Command, which includes item usage. So if I use an item on my own party, will it hit my own party?

Wait. By hitting everyone, I mean either all the enemies or all of your own party. Think pairing All with Fire, or just using Mega All.

So, let me get this straight. Is this what happens?

Situation 1: Cloud is reflected. Yuffie is not. Barret is not.
I cast Fire, paired with all, on my party. It hurts Yuffie and Barret, and the Fire reflects off of Cloud onto the enemy, hitting them once.

Situation 2: Cloud, Yuffie, and Barret are all reflected.
I cast Fire, paired with all, on my party. It reflects off of Cloud, Yuffie, AND Barret, but still only hits the enemy once despite reflecting 3x instead of 1x.

If that's so, then I'll be really sad. I was totally hoping for some insane Reflect based damage, which can ALMOST match up with KotR in potential (possible 233976 damage per turn, a bit below the 259974 that KotR can do per turn). If it did work properly and I went with a pure offensive build, I could actually do nearly 500k in potential damage per turn (each additional linked Quadra adds 1 additional attack per casting, up to 8, so 9999 * 8 * 3 * 2 = 479952 IF the Reflect combo works). It's mind boggling. o_O Though, getting 5 Quadra Magics would take a ridiculous amount of time...still fun to think about though.

Magic Counter basically casts a spell when the enemy attacks the user. The problem is two fold. One, will the Full Cure be cast on the enemy or the user? Secondly, Full Cure is reflectable. Even if I cast Full Cure on myself, will it bounce off Reflect and end up healing the enemy?

I guess that I'll have to test Quadra Magic when I eventually get the damn thing. Eventually.

As for Mega All, I was under the impression that it didn't need to be linked. It just causes all actions, even your attack (turns it into slash-all), to hit all enemies.

I do hope so myself. Rocket Town seems so freaking far away.



One additional question. Is Ultima a multi hit spell, and if so, how many hits is it?

Also I took a look at the Weapons again. Apparently, I can only fight the Ruby Weapon 1v1, which is rather unfortunate.

No, it only activates if the Materia in question targets an enemy.

Oh. In that case...
Basically, Reflect has three rules:
1. If someone with Reflect is hit by a spell, it's returned to the caster.
2. If the spell is reflected by the same person who casted the spell, that spell hits nobody.
3. A spell may only be reflected once.

If you hit your own reflected party with a spell that hits everyone in your party, the caster will probably be hit twice.

Now, if you want to have fun, pair Quadra Magic with Comet2, and have some fun blasting enemies with hundreds of meteors.

It will most likely either be casted on the user or not casted at all (being a non-offensive magic). In the case that it does hit the user, it'll bounce off into thin air if the user has Reflect on at the time (following Reflect's second rule).

Regardless, the Quadra Magic overrides the hit-all function.

Ultima deals non-elemental damage to all enemies, regardless of if it has an All or Mega All effect on it.

I'd be more worried about Emerald Weapon

Thanks a lot for the help. I have to re-evaluate my Materia setups now.

Sweet. Then I can still use it.

HOLD YOUR HORSES. I just checked the FAQ I'm following that's been pretty damn reliable so far. It says:
Visuals: None
Effects: Will reflect spells up to four times back at caster, or random enemy if caster is an ally
Will only reflect certain magical spells
Duration: Until end of battle or exhausted
Protected by: 'Petrify', 'Peerless', 'Resist'
Cured by: DeBarrier, DeSpell

Now I'm really not sure anymore. I really REALLY hope it works.

D: That...seriously sucks. It should still work with Ultima though, right? I read that "Spells that are naturally area will simply hit the chosen party four times." I was working under the assumption that since Quadra probably worked with natural area spells, Mega All would work for single target spells.

I mean, does it attack a single enemy multiple times (like Comet2), or just once?

Also, between Comet2 and Ultima, which is better? Comet2 seems to do more damage to a single enemy, but Ultima naturally hits all targets. That Mega All doesn't work with Quadra really hurts...

I can fight with my entire party though. That and, if it comes to it, I could always cross my fingers and try for Cait Sith's Game Over limit break. Instant win against the strongest enemy in the game is kinda funny.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Try it out anyways.

Since Ultima already hits all foes without the need of an All materia, you can combine it with Quadra Magic just fine. Same goes for Summon spells, too. You just need to have enough MP to successfully cast it those 4 times.

It depends. Comet2 is much weaker than Ultima in damage output, but is stronger than Ultima when facing a single foe (as the comets will all hit one person rather than random foes). Ultima has very high damage output (it's the strongest Green Materia in the game, after all), so it's a matter of what the situation is.

Ultima hits all foes once for heavy damage. Comet hits random enemies about 10-15 times, but deals a small amount of damage per hit.

I suggest, when fighting Emerald, not to use more than 3-4 materia per person. Definately no more than 8 materia per person.