First let me say I am an avid obama supporter. I think conservatives are liars, and find the McCain campaign despicable for its decision to go for smear. With that being said, Obama got royally owned tonight in this unique forum. It wasn't a debate, but you could still say McCain made himself look better than Obama. Obama beat around the bush and gave gray area answers, while McCain answered the questions in half the time, while still being more specific. I think if seriously needs to beat McCain in the debates if he wants a shot at winning now. Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America. I mean, the very fact that we had a war in Iraq isn't the bad part, it's that it was an utter lie and a failure. Maybe if we just all band together on things, maybe we could get things done. Right now it seems like everything is done with 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change. Of course following that logic the reverse could also be true (we let obama run things, no questions asked), but after seeing tonight's performances, McCain seems to have the right to go first. Sorry I couldn't find a link anywhere to the video.

First let me say I am an avid obama supporter. I think conservatives are liars, and find the McCain campaign despicable for its decision to go for smear.

With that being said, Obama got royally owned tonight in this unique forum. It wasn't a debate, but you could still say McCain made himself look better than Obama. Obama beat around the bush and gave gray area answers, while McCain answered the questions in half the time, while still being more specific. I think if seriously needs to beat McCain in the debates if he wants a shot at winning now.

Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America. I mean, the very fact that we had a war in Iraq isn't the bad part, it's that it was an utter lie and a failure. Maybe if we just all band together on things, maybe we could get things done. Right now it seems like everything is done with 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change. Of course following that logic the reverse could also be true (we let obama run things, no questions asked), but after seeing tonight's performances, McCain seems to have the right to go first.


Sorry I couldn't find a link anywhere to the video.

[quote]Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America.[/quote] IMO one should never, ever generically affiliate themselves with any one ideology/party/etc and have a derogative view upon the opposite side as a whole and instead look at the issues or candidates themselves. Even a "moderate" is equally as wrong as a conservative or liberal. As for the debate itself, i didn't watch it, but I think I might have somewhat of a general idea of what went on [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/15/rick-warrens-forum-to-go_n_119248.html]here[/url].

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Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America.

IMO one should never, ever generically affiliate themselves with any one ideology/party/etc and have a derogative view upon the opposite side as a whole and instead look at the issues or candidates themselves. Even a "moderate" is equally as wrong as a conservative or liberal.

As for the debate itself, i didn't watch it, but I think I might have somewhat of a general idea of what went on here.

Flipping through the MSNBC/CNN channels looking to see if there was any other Olympic stuff on I saw this. I only watched a couple minutes of it when McCain was talking but I changed the channel because I couldn't bear to listen to him while knowing in the back of my mind that people were actually eating up everything he said, as seen in the shots of smiling people in the crowd. :rolleyes: I wasn't surprised though, playing the POW card and saying God and lots of prayer helped him through it. Obviously a good way to win over conservatives and the general public. Oh yea and right from the beginning the setting of the forum made me roll my eyes. :rolleyes: I'm sure this will be talked about on The Colbert Report. It would probably be much more interesting too. Okay wow I just turned on CNN and I'm now watching Obama's part and I must say I can't believe that you think he got owned by McCain. That's just ridiculous. The length of his answers is not a problem at all and he's not beating around the bush at all. "Gray" questions deserve "gray" answers. It's ridiculous to answer a question that clearly deals with morals and ethics with just a simple YES or NO and then move on. The question and issue must be thoroughly discussed first and that is what I think Obama did. For example, in response to abortion McCain just says LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION next question while on the other hand Obama actual analyzes all sides of the issue and provides a thoughtful response. He even talks about how he cannot argue against one's core belief that life begins at conception. One of Obama's points that I liked was that his stance is not even based on his religion or whatever but that he believes women don't make these decisions casually. He believes that women wrestle with this moral dilemma on their own. I think that's a great answer that really makes pro-life seem really degrading to women and virtually forcing a choice which they may want on them neglecting the fact that they should be able to tackle the moral problem themselves and as Obama said with their own pastor. And then about gay marriage McCain's short answer is forgettable and generic while Obama made some profound comments saying for example that he would extend the civil liberties of marriage to a gay couple because he's strong enough in his belief that it wouldn't affect him. On the stem cell research question, Obama's awareness of the moral and ethical aspect of the issue seen while McCain once again really doesn't say anything at all. Finally, the question on "evil" (lol what a joke) is where I can't understand how a short answer like WE MUST DEFEAT EVIL end of discussion is a better answer than Obama's. Again, Obama actually answers by thoroughly giving examples of evil not just saying WE WILL CAPTURE BIN LADEN EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO TO THE GATES OF HELL. Obama talks about evil in Darfur and even in our own country and he gives a much better perspective on it than McCain did. And I really liked how he mentioned HUMILITY which was a great insight especially when he said we have sometimes committed evil in our attempts to confront evil in the name of good. McCain's answer had none of that. The idea of "defeating" evil is ridiculous in the first place which is why Obama keeps saying "confront" evil saying it is God's task to eliminate it for good. Overall after watching Obama's part I'm really shocked that you would find McCain's answer's better. The actual stances either of them had on the questions really didn't even matter. Obama's answers were just so much better than McCain's. And while Obama may give "long" responses, McCain adds to his meaningless short answers completely irrelevant stories just to appeal to the Christians around there. Seriously, a story about a christian moment with a Vietnamese guard while he was a POW, wtf? I'd take Obama's answers over an irrelevant story any day. I think if the setting was different and there were actually intelligent people in the audience there would be an applause after everything Obama said. McCain just got applause because of his generic, religious, and simpleminded answers that appealed to the Christian crowd. Also, it's funny how CNN had Obama's part on while Fox News had McCain's on. Probably just a coincidence with the timing though, at least for CNN because I saw it say McCain's part would come next.

Flipping through the MSNBC/CNN channels looking to see if there was any other Olympic stuff on I saw this. I only watched a couple minutes of it when McCain was talking but I changed the channel because I couldn't bear to listen to him while knowing in the back of my mind that people were actually eating up everything he said, as seen in the shots of smiling people in the crowd.

I wasn't surprised though, playing the POW card and saying God and lots of prayer helped him through it. Obviously a good way to win over conservatives and the general public.

Oh yea and right from the beginning the setting of the forum made me roll my eyes.

I'm sure this will be talked about on The Colbert Report. It would probably be much more interesting too.


Okay wow I just turned on CNN and I'm now watching Obama's part and I must say I can't believe that you think he got owned by McCain. That's just ridiculous. The length of his answers is not a problem at all and he's not beating around the bush at all. "Gray" questions deserve "gray" answers. It's ridiculous to answer a question that clearly deals with morals and ethics with just a simple YES or NO and then move on. The question and issue must be thoroughly discussed first and that is what I think Obama did.

For example, in response to abortion McCain just says LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION next question while on the other hand Obama actual analyzes all sides of the issue and provides a thoughtful response. He even talks about how he cannot argue against one's core belief that life begins at conception. One of Obama's points that I liked was that his stance is not even based on his religion or whatever but that he believes women don't make these decisions casually. He believes that women wrestle with this moral dilemma on their own. I think that's a great answer that really makes pro-life seem really degrading to women and virtually forcing a choice which they may want on them neglecting the fact that they should be able to tackle the moral problem themselves and as Obama said with their own pastor.

And then about gay marriage McCain's short answer is forgettable and generic while Obama made some profound comments saying for example that he would extend the civil liberties of marriage to a gay couple because he's strong enough in his belief that it wouldn't affect him.

On the stem cell research question, Obama's awareness of the moral and ethical aspect of the issue seen while McCain once again really doesn't say anything at all.

Finally, the question on "evil" (lol what a joke) is where I can't understand how a short answer like WE MUST DEFEAT EVIL end of discussion is a better answer than Obama's. Again, Obama actually answers by thoroughly giving examples of evil not just saying WE WILL CAPTURE BIN LADEN EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO TO THE GATES OF HELL. Obama talks about evil in Darfur and even in our own country and he gives a much better perspective on it than McCain did.

And I really liked how he mentioned HUMILITY which was a great insight especially when he said we have sometimes committed evil in our attempts to confront evil in the name of good. McCain's answer had none of that. The idea of "defeating" evil is ridiculous in the first place which is why Obama keeps saying "confront" evil saying it is God's task to eliminate it for good.

Overall after watching Obama's part I'm really shocked that you would find McCain's answer's better. The actual stances either of them had on the questions really didn't even matter. Obama's answers were just so much better than McCain's.

And while Obama may give "long" responses, McCain adds to his meaningless short answers completely irrelevant stories just to appeal to the Christians around there. Seriously, a story about a christian moment with a Vietnamese guard while he was a POW, wtf? I'd take Obama's answers over an irrelevant story any day.

I think if the setting was different and there were actually intelligent people in the audience there would be an applause after everything Obama said. McCain just got applause because of his generic, religious, and simpleminded answers that appealed to the Christian crowd.

Also, it's funny how CNN had Obama's part on while Fox News had McCain's on. Probably just a coincidence with the timing though, at least for CNN because I saw it say McCain's part would come next.

[quote]McCain just got applause because of his generic, religious, and simpleminded answers that appealed to the Christian crowd.[/quote] THATS AMERICA FOR YOU! [quote=McCain]I want everybody to get rich[/quote] Yep, he's a pyramid scheme. I missed the debate though. :(

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McCain just got applause because of his generic, religious, and simpleminded answers that appealed to the Christian crowd.

THATS AMERICA FOR YOU!

Quote from McCain

I want everybody to get rich

Yep, he's a pyramid scheme.
I missed the debate though.

I only watched Obama's part(I can't stand listening to McCain), but considering the disadvantage he was at, he did pretty well. The only demographic really at stake here are Evangelicals, most of which were going to vote for McCain regardless; I can see Obama picking up the more educated Evangelicals if they see that he actually bothered to analyze the answers and stand by his believes, rather than just feeding the audience like McCain.

I only watched Obama's part(I can't stand listening to McCain), but considering the disadvantage he was at, he did pretty well. The only demographic really at stake here are Evangelicals, most of which were going to vote for McCain regardless; I can see Obama picking up the more educated Evangelicals if they see that he actually bothered to analyze the answers and stand by his believes, rather than just feeding the audience like McCain.

I'm still profoundly questioning my foundations, but [url=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/10/10220/5131/885/565586]this[/url] is helping me feel a little better.

I'm still profoundly questioning my foundations, but this is helping me feel a little better.

Reading info off a biased website makes you feel better and more confident in your intellectual and well-informed decision to what your affiliation is? That's like people using info from Fox News to make them feel more comfortable and intellectual in their conservative/right-winged/republican stances. If anything, such sites would only push me [i]away [/i]towards the opposite side.

Reading info off a biased website makes you feel better and more confident in your intellectual and well-informed decision to what your affiliation is? That's like people using info from Fox News to make them feel more comfortable and intellectual in their conservative/right-winged/republican stances. If anything, such sites would only push me away towards the opposite side.

[quote=name:ClansAreForGays]First let me say I am an avid obama supporter. I think conservatives are liars, and find the McCain campaign despicable for its decision to go for smear. With that being said, Obama got royally owned tonight in this unique forum. It wasn't a debate, but you could still say McCain made himself look better than Obama. Obama beat around the bush and gave gray area answers, while McCain answered the questions in half the time, while still being more specific. I think if seriously needs to beat McCain in the debates if he wants a shot at winning now. Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America. I mean, the very fact that we had a war in Iraq isn't the bad part, it's that it was an utter lie and a failure. Maybe if we just all band together on things, maybe we could get things done. Right now it seems like everything is done with 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change. Of course following that logic the reverse could also be true (we let obama run things, no questions asked), but after seeing tonight's performances, McCain seems to have the right to go first. Sorry I couldn't find a link anywhere to the video.[/quote] Well, supporting a candidate for his beliefs and policies is more important than voting for him because he is "liberal" or... "conservative" vote for the man, not the party. We are supposed to be intellectual voters, so there has to be a bad party member on one side or the other at some point in time right? go with the better man!! not the "better" party in your perception of what is better. Im not supporting McCain.... if i could vote this year i would vote for a 3rd party or the libertarian candidate

Quote from ClansAreForGays

First let me say I am an avid obama supporter. I think conservatives are liars, and find the McCain campaign despicable for its decision to go for smear.

With that being said, Obama got royally owned tonight in this unique forum. It wasn't a debate, but you could still say McCain made himself look better than Obama. Obama beat around the bush and gave gray area answers, while McCain answered the questions in half the time, while still being more specific. I think if seriously needs to beat McCain in the debates if he wants a shot at winning now.

Personally, I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroads. Ever since 12th grade I've thought of conservatives as the scum of the earth covering themselves in lies. I have liberal world views, but I'm starting to think maybe if a conservative like John McCain is given control, and is supported by congress enough to enact his agenda, we might have a better America. I mean, the very fact that we had a war in Iraq isn't the bad part, it's that it was an utter lie and a failure. Maybe if we just all band together on things, maybe we could get things done. Right now it seems like everything is done with 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change. Of course following that logic the reverse could also be true (we let obama run things, no questions asked), but after seeing tonight's performances, McCain seems to have the right to go first.


Sorry I couldn't find a link anywhere to the video.

Well, supporting a candidate for his beliefs and policies is more important than voting for him because he is "liberal" or... "conservative" vote for the man, not the party. We are supposed to be intellectual voters, so there has to be a bad party member on one side or the other at some point in time right? go with the better man!! not the "better" party in your perception of what is better. Im not supporting McCain.... if i could vote this year i would vote for a 3rd party or the libertarian candidate

It was only a victory for McCain in that he appealed to the simpleminded people with his answers which sadly gives him a very good boost. Obama needs to dumb it down. I wouldn't care for it but it would help his campaign. [quote]I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change.[/quote] Yea screw democracy. A [i]good [/i]dictator would be better. :rolleyes:

It was only a victory for McCain in that he appealed to the simpleminded people with his answers which sadly gives him a very good boost.

Obama needs to dumb it down. I wouldn't care for it but it would help his campaign.

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I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change.

Yea screw democracy. A good dictator would be better.

[quote]I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change.[/quote] Yea screw democracy. A [i]good [/i]dictator would be better. :rolleyes:[/quote] This. Well, sort of. Places with dictatorships were always more productive, look at Hitler, in WW2, the Germans invented Jet Engines and Rockets. Dicmocracy. O.o

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I guess what I'm saying is if we let McCain run the show his way COMPLETELY for his term, then maybe we can see real change.

Yea screw democracy. A good dictator would be better. [/quote]
This. Well, sort of.

Places with dictatorships were always more productive, look at Hitler, in WW2, the Germans invented Jet Engines and Rockets.
Dicmocracy. O.o

They did not invent rockets, rockets were the first weapon utilizing gunpowder ever. I'm not sure about Jet Engines... Nope, it was someone in the first century AD. They invented neither.

They did not invent rockets, rockets were the first weapon utilizing gunpowder ever. I'm not sure about Jet Engines...
Nope, it was someone in the first century AD.
They invented neither.