Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 General Discussion > Topic: Fixing Starcraft 2 as a Gaming Industry
Fixing Starcraft 2 as a Gaming Industry
Jan 17 2011, 2:16 am
By: UnholyUrine  

Jan 17 2011, 2:16 am UnholyUrine Post #1



So, I feel I've raged enough :awesome:

So I'm going to ask all of you to watch someone else do it.
Don't wry, it's not about SC2, and it's not all about raging.


(plz watch @youtube... embedding is disabled)

Now, back on topic.
Is it me, or is every single problem that this dude addressed (except for the wireless of course, and except for the zombie, which is arguable with the infested civilians) is painfully apparent in Starcraft 2?

DLC = Trilogy = forced milking
Battle.net = internet requirement = "We bought the fucking game, LET US BE IN CONTROL OF IT"
Treating us like retards = Campaign
"You want us to shut our mouths on the community forums, you shut us up, you shut my wallet" = B.net forums.

Seriously guys... he's nailed Starcraft. Without even trying.

Discuss what other problems there are.
If you wish to defend Blizzard, please make sure you're not ignorant/defensive.




I just found this:


This video actually got Razorfist (the person talking in the video) banned from Gametrailers.
It reminds me of how much everything in gametrailers always bothered me. Similar to b.net forums and, indeed, sc2mapster, they this sense of law that anything and everything they show is the makings of God himself. They're always overly positive, and there is almost no criticism. The only light I see from gametrailers is Screwattack, a site that I frequent and highly recommend, which showcases good and old games, and of course, AVGN.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 17 2011, 4:09 am by UnholyUrine.



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Jan 17 2011, 2:49 am LoveLess Post #2

Let me show you how to hump without making love.

Off OP a little bit, but that video deserves way more than 700ish views. Fucking right in every aspect and hilarious to boot. At about 9:50, he starts spouting the real truth about it all. A prime example of that in effect, is Excalibur getting banned from the HoN servers when he was a moderator.

Back to OP, yeah. SC2 is just shit, I won't be buying another installment of it. Ever. Maybe not even another Blizzard game at this point.

Valve seems to be the only people sticking to the truth. Aside from TF2's hats and stuff, which almost nobody really cares for anymore.



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Jan 17 2011, 3:44 am UnholyUrine Post #3



Ex plays HoN? And Ex became a Mod? And Ex got banned??!?
I told u he was egocentric.... how else would he become a mod and then get banned?
( <3 Ex. Honest )

No wonder he's not here anymore haha. I thought I just scared him off.. but I knew he's better than that...

I know it's Off-topic, but wanna PM me what happened over there?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 17 2011, 4:10 am by UnholyUrine.



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Jan 17 2011, 10:15 am Ahli Post #4

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

That guy points out some main problems in games. His low view count irritating somehow.

Nevertheless there are some reasons behind some of the actions...

1. You have to be online to play is a try to stop piracy. But it failed in every game resulting in a big cut in the customers' playing right. The games have been cracked all together. So this "feature" is pointless because it failed.
Granting a cool multiplayer experience is the best way to sell the games.

2. Download contents are a "little" extra income for the game industry. Unfortunately the dlc is mostly overpriced in comparison to the content of the original game. Anyway games take many years longer to develop & produce because of terms of graphics and raised standards. So the costs are higher than 15 years ago. But new games mostly lack a good story. also: money, money, money...

3. Treating us like retards in the first few steps in the game is ok. Anyway that "feature" shouldn't annoy people that are already comfortable with the gameplay mechanics.

4. Banning for complains. The people who are dealing with the community and the guys producing the game are totally different.
The people for the community mostly know little about the games and just try to maintain some peace in the forums. They shouldn't shut you down, if you don't break their forum rules.
Unfortunately every post of a company's member is taken as gold and 100% correct so they don't appear everywhere and only post pre-designed answers. Like in Blizzard's localized forums, all blueposts are 100% translated from the US forum. There are only some posts about already known problems or rarely some posts that thank the user for reporting that error/incompatibility.

That's why I can't move sh!t in the German Blizzard forums. Information will be passed per e-mail only because the forums mostly don't work OR things kept to much invisible.

Anyway, the official forums are mostly idiot-infested who rant about everything and can't read anything. Yay @ 10 threads about already known problems...

I wish I would remember the words of my first economics professor but more or less he said that you should ignore the opinion of the customer as long as you can sell your products with highest possible profit. The aim of a company is NOT to make the customer happy. It's money, money, money...

~Ahli, one of the money vampires of the future




Jan 17 2011, 11:51 am NicholasBeige Post #5



What Ahli said.

You can either live in your utopian bubble where your delusion goes as far as to think that software developing giants (ZeniMax, Electronic Arts etc) actually CARE about your opinion. Or you can wake up to the harsh reality that it's business. Strictly business.

The gaming industry is a highly skilled sector, requiring long hours of work, high rate of burnout, for very little immediate rewards. Starting any game in development is a major risk for these companies and at the end of the day, it's all about money. Profit, sales, costs, expenditure, budget, forecasting and time constraints.

While the guy in these videos just reminds me of a more pent up version of the dude who does the Escapist Magazine reviews. Having just watched about 6 of his videos, he labors the same points over and over again. A few things I do agree with however.

1. If your internet is down one day, and you can't play Golden Axe (or whatever) don't cry to Sony or Microsoft, cry to your internet service provider.

2. If you don't like the fact that your game comes with DLC then don't buy it and be content to play the release game. Or clue up and buy the game on it's day of release (or whatever other promotion they are offering). His example of Dragon Age: Origins, which is a game that comes with roughly 80 hours of playing time (PER PLAY THROUGH) for £29.99 original retail price... If that's not a bargain than I don't know what is.

3. It's a sad fact that a lot of people in life are addicted to computer games, and as such their education, their grades even their livelihood suffers. I don't blame the software giants for treating people like retards, since this inevitably widens their target market. I agree in some cases it is a bit too far - but otherwise, it's not too much to deal with.

4. I think he needs to learn what 'Backwards' compatibility means. (Hint: The clue is in the name)

Okay. On to what grates me about the industry:

What I hate is console-loving fanboys thinking they are the future of computer gaming. They never were, and never will be. Keyboard and Mouse in front of a medium-to-high end rig with a nice 20" flatscreen monitor - THAT is the way it is meant to be played. But, inevitably, software giants are branching out and Microsoft/Sony have pretty much dominated this realm and to a certain degree Nintendo. The only reason for this is money. Your average kid is too stupid to know all about computer specs and updating drivers etc. A console cuts out all this 'technical information' and provides a platform on which all games designed for it, can run equally well. Furthermore kiddies games and family games are flooding our high-street retailers here in the UK. So much so, that computer games are nearly completely disappeared except from specialist retailers. I want to go into a computer-game aisle and see nothing but computer games, old and new. Instead, I see an entire corridor devoted to Wii, with shiny cartoon-like graphics and 'fun for all the family' sloganed everywhere.

And simply put, this market diversification of new kiddies, older (true/hardcore) gamers, and goddamn parents and OAPs, is what is causing all this anger at the gaming industry.

The developers are happy if they make money. They make money by selling games across the board. The kiddies are happy if the parents spend money on them. Which is all a pretty sweet setup for the developers. Then the hardcore/true gamers (which I know I am, and I know quite a few of you are also) have to put up with mediocre game releases, glaring flaws and sub-par gameplay. Because, we've been gaming since the 1994 era, when everything was on Computer (at least for myself - sure we had a Golden China, a Sega Mega Drive 64 bit and later an Ninento and Playstation 1)... We've (at least, I have) evolved from Civilization 1, Lost Vikings, to Doom and Warcraft 1, into Warcraft 2 and Dungeon Keeper then into Counterstrike and Starcraft, alongside Morrowind, then came Warcraft 3 and Halo etc***... then before we knew it WoW came along and everything changed. I have nothing against WoW, it is the prime example of a developer defining an addiction, and then subsequently marketing the fuck out of it. Which in turn, allows Blizzard to be simultaneously developing 3 games at once. Sure you can Starcraft 2 hate all you want but as I have (hopefully) explained, this feeling of anger comes about because developers to a large extent have to make cuts. I'm sure a lot of inhouse developers and testers of Starcraft 2 (particularly the Campaign) fucking hated it. But there is very little they can do to change it, and as such, there is even less that we, as consumers, can do to change the industry.

***Edit: this list is extremely incomplete ;)



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Jan 17 2011, 11:00 pm UnholyUrine Post #6



You mean Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation? =D I love that guy.

I don't get you sometimes, tho, Cardinal
I'm using his video to depict problems about the way the developers have dealt with SC2

The problems of the industry is that exactly what he addressed. Though I think he hasn't done a stellar job of wording the problems.

When he was complaining about Internet being necessary for games, one should take a step back and realize that the big problem is the corporations trying to own and protect the game to a degree that it has started to hurt players. We all know about pirates (YARRR), and it's not good. But doing things like making it necessary to logon to b.net while using the editor is just plain bullshit.


Yeah, when there's money involved, things just hit the fan.
To say that they had to make cuts on things and then inputting facebook integration is just infuriating.

So with this, let's focus on SC as I try to debunk ur points

I disagree with #1. He's talking about the way the industry handles its customers, not who to blame. Just think of the way Blizzard's handling the die-hard fans. No chat channels @ launch, No Lan, Fuck the Korean Broadcasters. common guys...

I disagree with #2, because you misinterpreted his problem again. He's addressing the fact that the industry's milking the franchise by putting a pricetag on bits and pieces of the game that is already present. So not really a DLC. This is similar to the way that they're milking SC2 with their Trilogy gimmick. The only differences are gonna be more of the gayshit campaign, and things that should've been in the first game.

With #3, even he asked "But can you really blame them?".. Honestly, the gamers are the ones to blame.... Echo has Final Fantasy 13 or 14.... we should burn him at a stake.
Just think about all the f'ing HYPE that sc2 has. Game of the Year? Fuck me. The BEST GAME OF THE YEAR.. with ghastly plot, mediocre voice acting, douche-bag characters, even worse douche-bag moderators, Unfinished editor, Zero community support, and Facebook integration
Honestly, even if you JUST look at the single player campaign, the game is mediocre at best.
Playing battle.net 1, and then trying b.net 2, the game is a total pile of donkey diahhrea bullfuck.

4 = ? :wtfage:



I agree with the console-fanboys criticism... especially xbox fanboys.... cause it's pretty much a computer with a controller.. DUUUH
I'm saying this b/c of one game that I've bought that would've been probably the BIGGEST GAME OF THE DECADE and wouldn't have slipped off into obscurity so much that they have to release a sequel coming up TOMORROW, JAN18.

Know what it is??
you guessed it! it's Little Big Planet!!!

The ONE and ONLY pitfall with LBP, and I'm serious, is that it's on the console, not the PC.
Just think about it.

All the Levels, New enemies, New textures, New skins, New character design, New level designs... everything can be SO EASILY shared on the internet. On the PSN, it's bullshit.

That game also proved to me that Popularity Systems are intrinsically flawed. Way b4 sc2 was released, I knew this already.

It's sad cause it WOULD've been my favorite game for sure. Ez editor, awesome graphics, the charm.. pure fun.... but all gone to waste.



@Ahli
Money is the root of all evil.
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU :notangel:

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 17 2011, 11:06 pm by UnholyUrine.



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Jan 17 2011, 11:03 pm DavidJCobb Post #7



Quote from name:Cardinal
What I hate is console-loving fanboys thinking they are the future of computer gaming. They never were, and never will be. Keyboard and Mouse in front of a medium-to-high end rig with a nice 20" flatscreen monitor - THAT is the way it is meant to be played. But, inevitably, software giants are branching out and Microsoft/Sony have pretty much dominated this realm and to a certain degree Nintendo. The only reason for this is money. Your average kid is too stupid to know all about computer specs and updating drivers etc. A console cuts out all this 'technical information' and provides a platform on which all games designed for it, can run equally well. Furthermore kiddies games and family games are flooding our high-street retailers here in the UK. So much so, that computer games are nearly completely disappeared except from specialist retailers. I want to go into a computer-game aisle and see nothing but computer games, old and new. Instead, I see an entire corridor devoted to Wii, with shiny cartoon-like graphics and 'fun for all the family' sloganed everywhere.
Consoles do have several inherent advantages over PCs when it comes to gaming, though. Everyone plays using the same (generally high-end) hardware, so nobody gets an economic advantage. This makes it much easier for game developers to ensure that victory is determined by skill. As you said, it cuts out the need to update drivers or pay attention to device specs; while this makes consoles more idiot-friendly, it also means less time spent updating the system and more time spent actually playing it.

An example of how bad hardware can cause less skilled players to win? On some low-end graphics cards, cloaked players in Halo PC (old example, I know) showed up as solid grey silhouettes. "Oh, you're more skilled than me and got the camo first? Hahaha, I'm poor so I can still see you, blam blam blam, you're dead, fuck you." (The more expensive hardware doesn't always win. The disparity between different devices' processing power, however, will affect the outcome of a match.)



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Jan 17 2011, 11:30 pm NicholasBeige Post #8



Cardinal's opinion on the 'game industry'


Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 18 2011, 1:47 am by Cardinal.



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Jan 18 2011, 1:14 am Neki Post #9



WoW had nothing to do with the console cycles. The time between the Xbox and 360 may have been short (4 years), but the PS2 was out for at least 6 years while the Gamecube was out for 5 years, a typical life-span of a console. Get your fact straights before you start spewing out inaccurate garbage. Also, the broski system is the 360 and PS3, not the Wii. You act like the Wii has no good games. This is off-topic, but regardless, PC gaming does affect console gaming, but not as much as you think it would. Consoles have almost been the preferred choice for most gamers because of the lack of updating hardware, and having a centralized multi-player system across games.



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Jan 18 2011, 1:31 am NicholasBeige Post #10



offtopic? Cardinal's opinion on the 'gaming industry'



Quote from UnholyUrine
DLC = Trilogy = forced milking
Trilogy = prolonging the development time of what is to be the world's greatest RTS of all time = good marketing and good foresight. I've mentioned this in a previous post of mine (it's in between the off topic/opinions I share)

Quote from UnholyUrine
Battle.net = internet requirement = "We bought the fucking game, LET US BE IN CONTROL OF IT"
Pirates = no money for developers = no developers = no more games. Forcing legitimate internet connectivity is one step against piracy. The context in which this feature was undoubtedly pushed through a boardroom, has most likely something to do with talk at around that time of ISPs blacklisting members who illegally share files. You have downloaded illegal software, your IP is black-listed, Blizzard block you from enetering battle.net. Now obviously this has not become a reality - and I don't think it ever will. But why is it such a problem to be online to play a game? Counter-strike never had this mentality behind it.

Quote from UnholyUrine
Treating us like retards = Campaign
Go play melee. I've mentioned this in previous posts also. The melee is what Blizzard focussed on. Creating competitive, strategic, real time combat for thousands of players across the globe to compete. Since July 2010 (when SC2 came out), how many tournaments have there been? How many professional e-sports gaming teams have switched their focus entirely to SC2? How many 'shoutcasts' are on youtube of 'high-level game play'? I'm sorry, but Blizzard fucking nailed this one.

Quote from UnholyUrine
"You want us to shut our mouths on the community forums, you shut us up, you shut my wallet" = B.net forums.
See Ahli's post. You're a customer. Your opinion is of very little importance. Blizzard have, in my opinion, done an 'okay' job in implementing features the community has asked for. Primarily balance patches have been the priority. But the sheer number of documented changes to the editor are testamentary to my feelings on this. My main problem is that the coverage of their staff is skewed towards America. The EU forums have little or no sense of 'Blizzard' on them at all. But I think this will change in time.

Quick final edit: I have spoken my piece on Starcraft 2 and the gaming industry. Which is what this thread's title relates to. I put my essay's in Collapse boxes so that the bulk of SEN can avoid them :). Sorry if my points seem blunt or one-sided, they're just words and opinions.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 18 2011, 1:50 am by Cardinal.



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Jan 19 2011, 5:07 am UnholyUrine Post #11



Only one rebuttal

Quote
Battle.net = internet requirement = "We bought the fucking game, LET US BE IN CONTROL OF IT"
A better example would be the Galaxy Editor requiring internet.

Yeah, I doubt they'd care about us after we've bought the game... I agree.. it's a sad but true fact.
I still don't understand why they would let the fools make such an appalling effort on b.net 2. Despite all the possibilities of money and stuff behind it, I still feel B.net 2 is badly designed.

I also see the Trilogy gimmick as an ingenious marketing decision. That's actually the first thing I thought when I first heard it. But it is still a way to milk customers.

The campaign is bad because they dumbed it down. It's also a marketing scheme, but it's ruining the game and the game industry with it. Money talks, unfortunately, and much louder than any of us combined.

Lastly.. you fail at keeping things short.
but at least you've shared w/ me ur opinions

I still don't agree with you tho. My hate is eternal!!



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