[COLOR=#86EE59]He has led this country through some of the hardest times. He is truly, one of the Top 10 best American presidents in my eyes. I'll expand further if the discussion kicks off. Intellectual comments, notes, anecdotes, stupidity, thoughtless statements, and flame welcome. Ralph Nader not welcome.[/COLOR] [SIZE=14][COLOR=#81A7EF]My responses on page 3.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

I agree with you. You won't find to many people that will, though.

I agree with you. You won't find to many people that will, though.

Especially since he opposes gay marriage. [QUOTE=Falkoner]God didn't mean for us to be gay, "The sacred power of procreation be employed, only between a man and a woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife"[/QUOTE]

Especially since he opposes gay marriage.

Quote from Falkoner

God didn't mean for us to be gay, "The sacred power of procreation be employed, only between a man and a woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife"

[QUOTE]He has led this country through some of the hardest times. He is truly, one of the Top 10 best American presidents in my eyes. I'll expand further if the discussion kicks off. Intellectual comments, notes, anecdotes, stupidity, thoughtless statements, and flame welcome. Ralph Nader not welcome.[/QUOTE] [B][SIZE=18]WHAT THE FUX?![/SIZE][/B] He has hurt Americas reputation and diplomatic relations to almost an unrepairable state, he has infringed our rights by spying on us, he has murdered thousands of people with this mistake of a war, he is possibly one of the worst and stupidest presidents of all time.

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He has led this country through some of the hardest times. He is truly, one of the Top 10 best American presidents in my eyes. I'll expand further if the discussion kicks off.

Intellectual comments, notes, anecdotes, stupidity, thoughtless statements, and flame welcome.
Ralph Nader not welcome.

WHAT THE FUX?!

He has hurt Americas reputation and diplomatic relations to almost an unrepairable state, he has infringed our rights by spying on us, he has murdered thousands of people with this mistake of a war, he is possibly one of the worst and stupidest presidents of all time.

That would be the personal opinion of the average undereducated Bush hater. :-_-:

That would be the personal opinion of the average undereducated Bush hater.

Do you really think that if we had not retaliated to getting bombed then then terrorists would just stay happy with their one bombing? Bush is a great president, and he did fine after one of the worst presidents, Bill Clinton, who was one of the most intelligent presidents, but one of the worst.

Do you really think that if we had not retaliated to getting bombed then then terrorists would just stay happy with their one bombing? Bush is a great president, and he did fine after one of the worst presidents, Bill Clinton, who was one of the most intelligent presidents, but one of the worst.

[Quote=TitanWing]That would be the personal opinion of the average undereducated Bush hater. :-_-:[/Quote] jeez... thanks for calling me ignorant yes we did get bombed, and we did decimate the taliban thats all good and all but what do you say to iraq? Saddam was not harboring WMDs he was not concealing any terrorists and dont pull "oh he was a tyrant" because take a look at Darfur should we invade them as well along with the other half of the world? His decision to stay in Iraq is consting thousands of lives, not just from our soldiers and the insurgents but for the civilians of iraq as well. We stepped into a civil war, just like Vietnam and Korea and from experience we know that it did not turn out that great.

Quote from TitanWing

That would be the personal opinion of the average undereducated Bush hater.

jeez... thanks for calling me ignorant

yes we did get bombed, and we did decimate the taliban thats all good and all but what do you say to iraq? Saddam was not harboring WMDs he was not concealing any terrorists and dont pull "oh he was a tyrant" because take a look at Darfur should we invade them as well along with the other half of the world? His decision to stay in Iraq is consting thousands of lives, not just from our soldiers and the insurgents but for the civilians of iraq as well. We stepped into a civil war, just like Vietnam and Korea and from experience we know that it did not turn out that great.

WMD's were discovered in Iraq, and plants to make them, so I don't know where you are coming from.

WMD's were discovered in Iraq, and plants to make them, so I don't know where you are coming from.

I believe you are talking about the gulf war.

I believe you are talking about the gulf war.

[Quote=Sie_Sayoka]... he has infringed our rights by spying on us...[/Quote] When I look at this realistically i disagree. According to the patriot act, it says so, but does it really show so? People complain about how it infringes upon their rights, but does it [I]really [/I]affect the way they live? I mean look at your current life. I can live not knowing such an Act has been passed. Waking up, getting ready for work or school, eating lunch, coming back from school/work, watching TV, playing PC games, etc etc, has not changed my life nor has it affected any of my rights. I can live normally as a US citizen with all of my given rights to this day. Infact, I did not know such an Act was passed until two years afterwards. After realizing it's existence, I was like "... ok w/e. Not like it affects me." The only thing that I cannot do is yell "BOMB" in an airport. Boohoo, i can't yell "BOMB" in an airport! It seems to me most people who complain about this issue only look at this in theory but not in reality. Like with OSMAP, I am not for such things, but later on I realized that it really doesn't affect me. But suppose they really do spy on us... So what if they are listening in to one of my phone conversations, I could really care less. Sure, they are MORE than welcome to listen in to what I am talking about; I dunno why they'd want to waste time/money/resources seeing what I am talking about. Right right, they want to see that I'm discussing plans of blowing up America with the person on the otherside of the line; I'm SURE that they are going to find ordinary people like me do such things. So what if they've placed a video camera in... say my bathroom; I'm DAMN SURE you'd love the sight of someone taking a nice and relaxing shit, and I'm quite confident u're not going to find any sign of terrorism from me pooping. "OH NO! HE'S CONTAMINIATING THE WATER WITH HIS SHIT! HE'S A TERRORIST!! GET HIM!!!" Besides, if [I]a[/I] government had to commit such ludicrous acts, I'd rather it be the American Government; I wouldn't want some other country's government, like say the Chinese Government, to be seeing what I'm doing; other countries' governments are much more likely to do something to us if they were the ones spying on us..

Quote from Sie_Sayoka

... he has infringed our rights by spying on us...

When I look at this realistically i disagree.

According to the patriot act, it says so, but does it really show so? People complain about how it infringes upon their rights, but does it really affect the way they live? I mean look at your current life. I can live not knowing such an Act has been passed. Waking up, getting ready for work or school, eating lunch, coming back from school/work, watching TV, playing PC games, etc etc, has not changed my life nor has it affected any of my rights. I can live normally as a US citizen with all of my given rights to this day. Infact, I did not know such an Act was passed until two years afterwards. After realizing it's existence, I was like "... ok w/e. Not like it affects me." The only thing that I cannot do is yell "BOMB" in an airport. Boohoo, i can't yell "BOMB" in an airport! It seems to me most people who complain about this issue only look at this in theory but not in reality. Like with OSMAP, I am not for such things, but later on I realized that it really doesn't affect me.

But suppose they really do spy on us...

So what if they are listening in to one of my phone conversations, I could really care less. Sure, they are MORE than welcome to listen in to what I am talking about; I dunno why they'd want to waste time/money/resources seeing what I am talking about. Right right, they want to see that I'm discussing plans of blowing up America with the person on the otherside of the line; I'm SURE that they are going to find ordinary people like me do such things. So what if they've placed a video camera in... say my bathroom; I'm DAMN SURE you'd love the sight of someone taking a nice and relaxing shit, and I'm quite confident u're not going to find any sign of terrorism from me pooping. "OH NO! HE'S CONTAMINIATING THE WATER WITH HIS SHIT! HE'S A TERRORIST!! GET HIM!!!"
Besides, if a government had to commit such ludicrous acts, I'd rather it be the American Government; I wouldn't want some other country's government, like say the Chinese Government, to be seeing what I'm doing; other countries' governments are much more likely to do something to us if they were the ones spying on us..

I hated George W. Bush [B]before[/B] it was popular.

I hated George W. Bush before it was popular.

Yes it does not affect us in almost any way at all but it is just the Idea of screwing with our rights from us, If our privacy rights could be taken so easily think of the other things that could be taken in the future. Not saying that it would happen btw, just the possibility. And yes you are right, It is quite a stupid law that is a waste of resources that could be going to some place better.... freaking guys contaminating our water D:<

Yes it does not affect us in almost any way at all but it is just the Idea of screwing with our rights from us, If our privacy rights could be taken so easily think of the other things that could be taken in the future. Not saying that it would happen btw, just the possibility.

And yes you are right, It is quite a stupid law that is a waste of resources that could be going to some place better.... freaking guys contaminating our water D:<

It's just the hippies that overreacted to that act and everyone else went with them. It's not like the idea has been destroyed entirely.

It's just the hippies that overreacted to that act and everyone else went with them. It's not like the idea has been destroyed entirely.

By not vetoing any of the Republican spending increases on pork projects (in an effort to increase the Republicans' respective popularities from their home states), our deficit is now huge (we had a surplus when Clinton was in office because of responsible fiscal management). Add that with the tax cuts, especially to the rich, and we have a recipe for a major economic recession. More so than Bush, the thing that has hurt America over the past six or seven years has been the Republican majority in all branches of government, although Bush certainly provided the momentum to propel the Republicans to their original political victory, although they have now created a political "Vietnam" for themselves with really no chance for a victory in the next decade or so. Someone posted "proof" of WMDs in Iraq for the second gulf conflict, but they didn't realize it was an old report from the first one. Bush has really hurt international relations, our economy, and even Americans' trust in their own country. If you can find some good that he's done during his "reign" by all accounts, let us know. [QUOTE]He has led this country through some of the hardest times.[/QUOTE] Yes, these have been hard times, and unfortunately he was the leader when this crap all happened. He led us through all right but so poorly that it's going to take us years to hurt the wounds that he's caused.

By not vetoing any of the Republican spending increases on pork projects (in an effort to increase the Republicans' respective popularities from their home states), our deficit is now huge (we had a surplus when Clinton was in office because of responsible fiscal management). Add that with the tax cuts, especially to the rich, and we have a recipe for a major economic recession. More so than Bush, the thing that has hurt America over the past six or seven years has been the Republican majority in all branches of government, although Bush certainly provided the momentum to propel the Republicans to their original political victory, although they have now created a political "Vietnam" for themselves with really no chance for a victory in the next decade or so.

Someone posted "proof" of WMDs in Iraq for the second gulf conflict, but they didn't realize it was an old report from the first one. Bush has really hurt international relations, our economy, and even Americans' trust in their own country. If you can find some good that he's done during his "reign" by all accounts, let us know.

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He has led this country through some of the hardest times.

Yes, these have been hard times, and unfortunately he was the leader when this crap all happened. He led us through all right but so poorly that it's going to take us years to hurt the wounds that he's caused.

He didn't cause any wounds, he just came into office at a bad time, everyone would've been complaining about Bill Clinton if it had happened during his time too. And you cannot say that the bombing of the trade towers was his fault, as it happened about a month after his election, meaning Bill Clinton was the person leading up to it.

He didn't cause any wounds, he just came into office at a bad time, everyone would've been complaining about Bill Clinton if it had happened during his time too.

And you cannot say that the bombing of the trade towers was his fault, as it happened about a month after his election, meaning Bill Clinton was the person leading up to it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K7aFXRAW7mg A quick video to anyone thinking Bush and other republicans aren't using 9/11 to their advantage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K7aFXRAW7mg

A quick video to anyone thinking Bush and other republicans aren't using 9/11 to their advantage.

[QUOTE]we had a surplus when Clinton was in office because of responsible fiscal management[/QUOTE] This wasn't mostly Clinton's doing; it was mostly Bill Gates and Microsoft's doing. It just happened that Clinton was president during the time of economic prosperity; computers and the tech industries were booming like crazy. Any president who presided during that time would've been "great" because they really didn't have to do much with our economy. And coincidentially it ended right as he left office.

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we had a surplus when Clinton was in office because of responsible fiscal management

This wasn't mostly Clinton's doing; it was mostly Bill Gates and Microsoft's doing. It just happened that Clinton was president during the time of economic prosperity; computers and the tech industries were booming like crazy. Any president who presided during that time would've been "great" because they really didn't have to do much with our economy. And coincidentially it ended right as he left office.

people just think this is the worst war ever but it isnt... i agree hes okay...

people just think this is the worst war ever but it isnt...
i agree hes okay...

MA, at least Clinton vetoed some spending and raised taxes for a balanced budget. You deal with what you have, and George Bush is spending money worse than a Democrat, but he's spending it on very Republican things (defense, etc.) which help fuel the military industrial complex and keep money in the pockets of the rich. Add to that his tax cuts and you've got a recipe for disaster. Let's deal with your line of reasoning though. If the economy was doing well with Clinton in office, then he had a right to go up to that budget in spending (and we even had a surplus to pay back our debt and increase international trust in our economy). So when the economy start to perform less robustly, why did George W. Bush suddenly increase spending? If the economy were doing better, the spending wouldn't hurt as much. However, we're pulling in less money but spending more. Did you know that the United States pours more money into its defense budget than all other countries combined? At least, that's since 9/11. A mostly symbolic attack has "forced" us to severely harm too many aspects of this nation, at least that's what Bush says. It's a funny thing how the vast majority of people really hate the job he's doing as "president."

MA, at least Clinton vetoed some spending and raised taxes for a balanced budget. You deal with what you have, and George Bush is spending money worse than a Democrat, but he's spending it on very Republican things (defense, etc.) which help fuel the military industrial complex and keep money in the pockets of the rich. Add to that his tax cuts and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Let's deal with your line of reasoning though. If the economy was doing well with Clinton in office, then he had a right to go up to that budget in spending (and we even had a surplus to pay back our debt and increase international trust in our economy). So when the economy start to perform less robustly, why did George W. Bush suddenly increase spending? If the economy were doing better, the spending wouldn't hurt as much. However, we're pulling in less money but spending more. Did you know that the United States pours more money into its defense budget than all other countries combined? At least, that's since 9/11. A mostly symbolic attack has "forced" us to severely harm too many aspects of this nation, at least that's what Bush says. It's a funny thing how the vast majority of people really hate the job he's doing as "president."

Ok George Bush Is about like Bill Cliton He is smart in some ways but,Dumb in many others.See at first George Bush was doing well his first 2-3 years nothing much was going wrong including the terrorist. Well after the terrorist it toke time for him to get off his fucking ass to do something. Anyways thats just one thing after his stupid thing in war now we in the usa have no fucking defense so hey if we get attacked we are fucked gg its over. Also on the hurricane remarks the least bush could've done is help fema and not just give speechs.If you ever wonder why the stupid comdian carlos mencia makes alot of jokes about bush you are what he calls dee dee dee.Anyways point is Bush is in the top ten dumbiest presidents not best. Atleast the worst thing clinton did was be a pimp lol.

Ok George Bush Is about like Bill Cliton He is smart in some ways but,Dumb in many others.See at first George Bush was doing well his first 2-3 years nothing much was going wrong including the terrorist.

Well after the terrorist it toke time for him to get off his fucking ass to do something.

Anyways thats just one thing after his stupid thing in war now we in the usa have no fucking defense so hey if we get attacked we are fucked gg its over.

Also on the hurricane remarks the least bush could've done is help fema and not just give speechs.If you ever wonder why the stupid comdian carlos mencia makes alot of jokes about bush you are what he calls dee dee dee.Anyways point is Bush is in the top ten dumbiest presidents not best.

Atleast the worst thing clinton did was be a pimp lol.