Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Map Projects > Topic: (4)Parallelism.scm (128x128, observer incl.)
(4)Parallelism.scm (128x128, observer incl.)
Feb 8 2010, 8:53 pm
By: Aristocrat  

Feb 8 2010, 8:53 pm Aristocrat Post #1



EDIT> v1.2 out, link here.
Download .zip

First try at making a melee map, pulled this out of my behind in about 4 hours (most of which was spent on tile-by-tile editing for terrain).

I focused on the concept of symmetry when making the map, which not only for the most part eliminates problems with gameplay balance but also makes it easier for me to draw the map with the isometric terrain tool :P.

MAP FEATURES:
-Short main-natural distance
-Split minerals at natural
-Short (but fairly narrow) choke between natural and center
-Full 8-mineral expansions at 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions (also with split minerals)
-Island mineral-only expansions at corners
-Cliffs between bases and side expansions to prevent tanks from hitting the gas in bottom mains
-Small temple platforms around the perimeter of the center allowing isolated tanks, templars, and other units to be dropped
-Four adjacent 750x3 mineral and 1500 gas expansions at center
-Two large platforms overlooking the expansions
-Two 2x4 creep patches a distance away from the center at 12/6 o'clock positions
-Fully buildable ground across the map



Known Issues (Please do tell me how I should fix these!):
-Rush distance between the 2 top/2 bottom bases is really, really short. A 5pool could potentially be a 33% guaranteed win for ZvP (albeit a 67% guaranteed loss). Any suggestions as to what I can do to make rushing less viable?
-Side ramps on 6/12 expansions allow zerglings and zealots to pass, but not vultures. I do not know if this affects gameplay significantly.

I attached observer/normal versions of the map. Feedback from Bnet and iCCup players seem to be positive thus far, but I have too little data to call this "balanced".

(Doesn't matter, but it's original SC compatible. But everyone has Brood War anyways.)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 9 2010, 2:09 am by doomedrusher.



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Feb 8 2010, 9:32 pm Super Duper Post #2



Weird Mineral Formations.
Tank holes, everywhere.

Middle expos are kinda useless.
Islands are a bit small. :omfg:
Tankable Islands. :(

Kinda tight from Player 1's base to Player 2's base and Player 4's base to Player 3's base.

Zerg has to spread out their sunkens around their expansion hatchery to deflect speedlot runbys OR they have to waste money to buy more.

I would suggest gas for the islands, but that is up to you.

Overall, nice map. But it has these -minor- imbalance issues. ^^

EDIT: Oh, and the map is a bit bland.
Double EDIT: Any preplaced buildings or units must be sprites or they dont show up in game, so replace the sunken colony with a sunken colony sprite ^^



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Feb 8 2010, 9:48 pm Aristocrat Post #3



I thought I already stacked a sprite on top of the preplaced buildings; I just never removed the building (since creep does not show up with only a sprite).

As for the tank holes, that was actually a big concern I had; I was planning on replacing a lot of the cliffs with water or making the holes undroppable, but I never got around to doing it. Should I keep cliffs and shrink holes, or just make them water?

The island size...at least they are bigger than the ones from Return of the King XD. It does not really matter if they are tankable, since if tanks are in there then they'll probably be razing the main anyways.

(In every ZvP I saw on this map the Z just went 4/5pool or all-in 2hatch mutas, so I'm really lacking in game data for that matchup.)

EDIT> Yes, it's bland, but I never cared much about aesthetics :D. Maybe if an unbuildable center is desired I'll throw in some doodads.

(Weird mineral formations? Do you mean for the naturals?)



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Feb 8 2010, 10:00 pm Super Duper Post #4



Yeah, the naturals and the 8 and 4 expansions.



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Feb 8 2010, 10:15 pm Aristocrat Post #5



Quote from name:Ciara
Yeah, the naturals and the 8 and 4 expansions.

Aww, but it's a feature :D. The 3/9 expo minerals are placed to make turret room, so you'll have to excuse that or have mutas dancing in and out of cliffs.



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Feb 8 2010, 11:22 pm Pr0nogo Post #6



You don't follow the gas rule. Read the stickies, or look it up on BroodWarMaps.net.




Feb 8 2010, 11:22 pm Excalibur Post #7

The sword and the faith

You cannot make a good map using X+Y+XY symmetry. You'll have to scrap this if you're looking to make a good competitive map. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
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The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Feb 8 2010, 11:23 pm Excalibur Post #8

The sword and the faith

Quote from name:Pronogo
You don't follow the gas rule. Read the stickies, or look it up on BroodWarMaps.net.
You only have to follow it in the mains and if possible the nats. Its nice to follow but not always possible.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Feb 8 2010, 11:36 pm Aristocrat Post #9



Quote from name:Pronogo
You don't follow the gas rule. Read the stickies, or look it up on BroodWarMaps.net.

The bottom nats need to have gas under main or they can get sniped by tanks outside. Do you want a 4-peon gas or a dead assimilator?

(Excalibur, why would this kind of symmetry make maps non-competitive? Aside from possible rush distance problems and "forced" base layout for production buildings (esp. Terran), I don't see why it would affect balance that much.

EDIT>
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/154_Vampire



:ermm: )

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 8 2010, 11:42 pm by doomedrusher.



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Feb 8 2010, 11:49 pm Super Duper Post #10



And this:



X+Y+XY symmetry is good for making the mains, possibly the nats. Everything else is just XY.



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Feb 9 2010, 12:14 am Aristocrat Post #11



Eye of the Storm:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/243_Eye of the Storm.jpg" style="max-width:500px; max-height:500px;" onclick="javascript:show_image(186310424)" id="image_clickable_186310424" class="image_clickable">

Judgment Day:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/238_Judgment Day.jpg" style="max-width:500px; max-height:500px;" onclick="javascript:show_image(179921889)" id="image_clickable_179921889" class="image_clickable">

And as Ciara points out, Andromeda.



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Feb 9 2010, 12:20 am Super Duper Post #12



And by the way, I like the sunken colony idea. Zerg can proxy some tech or something.



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Feb 9 2010, 12:47 am BeDazed Post #13



X+Y+XY maps has some problem with chance being a huge factor in deciding strategy- due to huge difference in distance between the mains.



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Feb 9 2010, 1:38 am Excalibur Post #14

The sword and the faith

The reason I say YOU cannot do X+Y+XY is because YOU are not a B- to A ICCup player, nor are you a proleague mapper.

Not even I can do it, and I can promise you you have a lot more to learn about mapping than I do, not that I am perfect by any stretch of my warped imagination.

Just take my advice and don't question it, I wouldn't lie to you, I'd get nothing out of it. I'm trying to improve this section, contrary to popular belief.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Feb 9 2010, 4:20 am Aristocrat Post #15



While that is indeed true, there is no reason to stop throwing around ideas with these maps. It's my first map, so I really don't expect it to be on par with Andromeda or anything of that sort, not without meticulous revisionary efforts from many mappers



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Feb 9 2010, 6:23 am Excalibur Post #16

The sword and the faith

If you have an idea, I say execute it the best way you can using XY or XY rotational (4p version of XY) symmetry. Working on your XY execution will help you improve, while having fun with X+Y+XY maps, will have much less of an effect.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Feb 10 2010, 4:29 am Aristocrat Post #17



Okay, I made some little changes and now have a working provisional version. I really don't feel like spending any more than an hour or two on this map if I ever make a change so the lack of doodads/meticulous tile blending will have to be excused.

Changelog:
v1.3:
-Moved naturals closer to center, lengthened choke and fixed rush distance
-Main shape slightly changed to accommodate changes. Ramp orientation reversed.
-Merged center/side ramps at 12/6, added backdoors to base in naturals blocked by 24 stacked 0-mineral clusters.
-Removed giant temple blocking space and the two center platforms. Replaced center platform with proxy-generating sunken/crystal.
-Removed two neutral command centers accidentally included with v1.2
-Removed two minerals from 6/12 expansions
v1.31: Patched all tank holes. Shrunk main slightly. More turret space added to expos. (same number of matrices as before but optimized terrain for 2x2 buildable blocks)
v1.32: Added four temple platforms near the center expansions to reinstate dropship usage. Mineral only very slightly expanded.

Compilation of complaints:
-MnM pathing will never see the creep, making proxy tech a little too easy for zerg
-1 base can farmine quadruple gas in middle with 22 workers
-Space behind natural unused and probably unusable
-Natural mineral line can potentially be tanked across the cliff
-Dragoon pathing not absolutely optimal due to even number of paths
-Carriers can rape every single mineral line besides the ones in the main bases and just perch on top of undroppable cliffs
-Carriers can micro across center temples for massive damage
-Center way too buildable
-3base turtle easy
-4/5 fact push only a soft counter to 2/3 base carriers
-Doom drops easier to execute than typical
-Backdoor to 6/12 too wide, Nex/CC/Hatch will fit and allows hidden farmining of its gas/minerals
-Terrain unit size glitch on about 20 square matrices (will elaborate if needed)
-Cliff terrain looks unnatural
-Map too bland, no doodads/terrain decoration
-Lack of usage of "ruins" palette

Here's v1.32:


I am not really ready to release this just yet, since it's not balanced within a +-10% margin of error for race matchups yet, and the main shape remains suboptimal. It also deviates quite far from previous versions, so I might do a separate release.



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[03:05 pm]
jjf28 -- no way it's based on a game we know :P
[03:01 pm]
NudeRaider -- lol... these screenshots look oddly familiar: https://xcraft.net/colonization.html :P
[02:10 pm]
jjf28 -- :wob:
[01:11 pm]
Zycorax -- :wob:
[12:21 pm]
Riney -- :wob:
[10:45 am]
GGmano -- Lurker dosent count as Any unit?
[11:36 pm]
Zoan -- what was weird was if you give the buildings to another player the computer player keeps on building it even though it doesn'y belong to them
[11:35 pm]
Zoan -- not any unit, but I did try move buildings
[11:35 pm]
Ahli -- tried moving any unit?
[08:57 pm]
Zoan -- i just tested. you actually just cant move unfinished buildings I guess. Tried moving all players and players 9 -12, tried giving players then moving. nothing works if its unfinished, but as soon as it's finished it works.
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