Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Map Projects > Topic: (2)The Spire
(2)The Spire
Jan 25 2010, 9:39 pm
By: Pr0nogo  

Jan 25 2010, 9:39 pm Pr0nogo Post #1





Decoration is in it's final stages, methinks, but some other stuff needs correcting.

Attachments:
(2)The Spire(n).scm
Hits: 0 Size: 84.12kb

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Jan 26 2010, 10:00 pm by Pronogo.




Jan 26 2010, 1:02 am Dem0n Post #2

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Mains are too small, chokes are too big, too much wasted space around the middle. Never have 3 mineral expos; have six or seven minerals.



Memes gather, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the memer on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of memes. I pledge my life and honor to the Meme's Watch, for this meme and all the memes to come.

Jan 26 2010, 2:58 am Marine Post #3



Quote from name:Dem0nS1ayer
Mains are too small, chokes are too big, too much wasted space around the middle. Never have 3 mineral expos; have six or seven minerals.
Also;
-The main has two entrances so it's difficult/impossible for Zerg to defend through their nat.
-Island expos are too small
-All expos have too little minerals (mains should have 8-10, nats 7-10, expos 7-8)
-Pay attention to the gas issue, most of your expos completely disregard that issue. Read the sticky or watch the videos.
-top/bottom nats are too small
-Not visually appealing due to open space in the main.



None.

Jan 26 2010, 2:58 am Pr0nogo Post #4



Updated. Mains have yet to be changed.
@Marine:
There is one entrance to the base. The ramp from the natural is easy to defend because it's the natural's ramp. I'll relocate the natural tomorrow (when I have more time).
Pic doesn't show sprites, look at the map for those.




Jan 26 2010, 3:37 am Pr0nogo Post #5



Updated again. Made mains larger and chokes smaller, more decoration added (some custom doodads and the like). Should I remove unwalkable doodads in the middle?
Will fix island expoes' lack of minerals shortly. In the map there are more minerals; in the pic, there are not.

EDIT: The gas rule is followed (bottom nat is right gas, top nat is top gas, mains are both slow gas, islands are right gas, right expo is right gas and left expo is top gas).




Jan 26 2010, 9:07 pm Super Duper Post #6



Chokes still too big, LOTS of wasted space. So much problem regarding TvZ:
•Zerg cant make a hatchery at their nat and have creep go along the main path to the main.
•Two ways into a nat = autowin for T.

The thirds are tankable and the ways the minerals are laid out and distributed are bad.
Quote
The ramp from the natural is easy to defense because it's the natural's ramp.
What? Zerg will not have a chance on this map at all.
Map is not balanced, no concept, no depth, nothing to salvage.
You also go overboard with the tessellated high ground. You dont need that much to prevent tanks from shooting.



None.

Jan 26 2010, 9:17 pm Pr0nogo Post #7



Quote from name:Ciara
Chokes still too big, LOTS of wasted space. So much problem regarding TvZ:
�Zerg cant make a hatchery at their nat and have creep go along the main path to the main.
�Two ways into a nat = autowin for T.

I already said I was revising the nats.

Quote from name:Ciara
The thirds are tankable and the ways the minerals are laid out and distributed are bad.
How is placing them in two separate directions bad? Also, they aren't tankable.

Quote from name:Ciara
Quote
The ramp from the natural is easy to defense because it's the natural's ramp.
What? Zerg will not have a chance on this map at all.

I'm revising the nats.

Quote from name:Ciara
Map is not balanced, no concept, no depth, nothing to salvage.

Opinion with no real evidence.

Quote from name:Ciara
You also go overboard with the tessellated high ground. You dont need that much to prevent tanks from shooting.

You told me to minimise straight lines. Please LOOK AT YOUR POSTS.




Jan 26 2010, 9:44 pm Super Duper Post #8



Quote from name:Pronogo
Quote from name:Ciara
Chokes still too big, LOTS of wasted space. So much problem regarding TvZ:
�Zerg cant make a hatchery at their nat and have creep go along the main path to the main.
�Two ways into a nat = autowin for T.

I already said I was revising the nats.

Quote from name:Ciara
The thirds are tankable and the ways the minerals are laid out and distributed are bad.
How is placing them in two separate directions bad? Also, they aren't tankable.

Quote from name:Ciara
Quote
The ramp from the natural is easy to defense because it's the natural's ramp.
What? Zerg will not have a chance on this map at all.

I'm revising the nats.

Quote from name:Ciara
Map is not balanced, no concept, no depth, nothing to salvage.

Opinion with no real evidence.

Quote from name:Ciara
You also go overboard with the tessellated high ground. You dont need that much to prevent tanks from shooting.

You told me to minimise straight lines. Please LOOK AT YOUR POSTS.
This doesnt mean to go completley overboard with the high ground. Please read MY POSTS, EXCALIBURS AND BEDAZED AND FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE!



None.

Jan 26 2010, 9:46 pm Pr0nogo Post #9



Nats added. Former nats turned to min-onlies with one entrance from the base and a second entrance (blocked by two stacked temples and two 0 Mineral fields*).

Slight change in placement of the island minerals.

More decoration added, made chokes smaller.




Jan 26 2010, 9:51 pm Super Duper Post #10



Oh fail'd my previous post. I edited it and i messed it up terribly.
Anyways, here is what I meant to sat:
Quote
Also, they aren't tankable.

Really?
Quote
Opinion with no real evidence.
How is this map different from other maps? How is this map balanced at all? There is no balance. For sure. Its a fact, not opinion.
Quote
You told me to minimise straight lines. Please LOOK AT YOUR POSTS.
Since when did this mean you should go berserk and spam a bunch of tessellated high grounds and waste space? Read EXCALIBUR'S POSTS, BEDAZED'S AND MINE! Follow their ( And Mine) advice and do what we say and make sure you never make the imbalances.

Actually, I recco. you get to C before mapping.



None.

Jan 26 2010, 10:00 pm Pr0nogo Post #11



Quote from name:Ciara
Oh fail'd my previous post. I edited it and i messed it up terribly.
Anyways, here is what I meant to sat:
Quote
Also, they aren't tankable.

Really?

I thought you were talking about the islands.
Fix'd.

Quote from name:Ciara
[quote]Opinion with no real evidence.
How is this map different from other maps? How is this map balanced at all? There is no balance. For sure. Its a fact, not opinion.

You didn't provide nearly enough evidence to proclaim this as a fact.

Quote from name:Ciara
[quote]You told me to minimise straight lines. Please LOOK AT YOUR POSTS.
Since when did this mean you should go berserk and spam a bunch of tessellated high grounds and waste space? Read EXCALIBUR'S POSTS, BEDAZED'S AND MINE! Follow their ( And Mine) advice and do what we say and make sure you never make the imbalances.

It's getting rid of tank holes with minimal wasted space and it's looking good doing it.

Quote from name:Ciara
Actually, I recco. you get to C before mapping.

I won't get past D+, honey.

On a more lighter note, I fixed the ramps/tankability on the thirds and the ramps/harassment opportunities on the second nat entrance. Take a look.




Jan 26 2010, 10:14 pm Super Duper Post #12



ALRITE BEING ZERG ROCKS GOGOGO TRIPLE EXPAND BEFORE GAS BECAUSE THE MIN ONLY IS CLOSE GOGOGOGO SPEEDLING 1A2A3A

Protoss can just quickly use +1speedzeal to rush to the zergs main and wipe out their eco, insta-GG.
If you are playing PvZ, how do you expect to do an FE wall? You cant. With the gas in the way, the 3 ways into the main, its impossible to FE wall.
TvZ, Zerg goes 2hatch muta and wrecks the terran's nat because there is no turret room.
You can avoid ANY kind of Simcity (either by Protoss, Terran or Zerg) and just kill the temple, go through the minonly and go into the main. Very imbal.
Delete some of the doodads around the middle, they just get in the way and make it a T favored map.
In TvP, or in TvZ, you have 3 bases right there they you can live off of. You dont need to move outside of your base, you might just go Siege Expand, Mine Harass into expand. Boom, a minonly and a nat 9 minutes in-game.



None.

Jan 26 2010, 10:20 pm Pr0nogo Post #13



Are you fucking retarded? There are two ways into the main. You keep pulling this imaginary three out your ass and, while it was somewhat humourous the first time around, it's just making me want to punch you in the face.

You could have just said "move the gas." Would have made me much more apt to take your advice. Instead, you acted like an asshole.

I'll move the min-only down to outside the temple.




Jan 26 2010, 10:25 pm Super Duper Post #14



I never intended for me to be "an asshole". These are facts, some maybe stated bluntly, but it needs to be said. When I try to help you, you look upon the advice, chew it and spit it out. All I am trying to do is help and no matter who helps you, you just never listen to it and incorporate it into your next map.
No, im not retarded. You're posts are starting to cause mental anguish and get annoying, when my posts are trying to help you and thus gives you no right to attack me merely because I was stating the imbalances of your map. Its imbalanced, we dont need Excalibur to confirm that one. Follow the advice and start again.

And there is three ways into the main. The nat and the other two entrances.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 26 2010, 11:42 pm by Ciara.



None.

Jan 27 2010, 1:19 am Marine Post #15



- Some wasted space around the middle
- Bottom left expo, red's main (bottom right) and top right expo have the gas placement still bad
- Try moving blue's main area up to the top corner and flipping red's main so it's equal, that way there's more room in blue's main to build and defend to block against muta harass.
- Blue's nat's gas is in the way of the path, try to move it so it doesn't block unlike red's nat's gas.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 27 2010, 1:31 am by Marine.



None.

Jan 27 2010, 1:48 am Dem0n Post #16

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

If you're not going to make the mains (or any base, for that matter) any bigger, at least move the minerals to the top/bottom. Why are they in the middle of the main? That takes up too much space. And put a 0 value mineral block on the island expos so that Terran can't float a CC.



Memes gather, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the memer on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of memes. I pledge my life and honor to the Meme's Watch, for this meme and all the memes to come.

Jan 27 2010, 4:18 am Pr0nogo Post #17



@Marine: both gases in mains are from bottom, meaning both are slow gases (as long as they're both slow or both fast it's fine) and island expoes have slow gases as well. Will move nat gas.

@Dem0nS1ayer: They are in the middle to provide turret room. Will do the island-block thing (only map I've ever forgotten to do it on ><).

Quote from Ciara
And there is three ways into the main. The nat and the other two entrances.

Really, Ciara? There are two basic, key entrances into the main. Through the min-only and through the choke.



If you're talking about through the min-only, the nat and the pathway from around the low platform expo, you are STILL wrong, because you'd then be talking about FOUR ways into the main and not three.


Stop.




Jan 27 2010, 4:27 am Marine Post #18



With so many different ways into the main it's still difficult for early expansion for the zerg and to defend through that vital first expo.



None.

Jan 27 2010, 8:26 pm Super Duper Post #19



Quote from Marine
With so many different ways into the main it's still difficult for early expansion for the zerg and to defend through that vital first expo.
Which proves my point further.

The barracks path is basically the same path for the one on the bottom left.



None.

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