Hi, I play starcraft for fun but really enjoy watching high-level competitive play and trying (failing) to emulate it (and conceptualize good balanced 2/3/4 player maps for 1v1 play.) I haven't made a lot of maps nor have I spent a lot of time on one in particular and "finished" it but I tend to have various ideas and from time to time I throw them down in SCMdraft. So I'm watching a vod commentary by my favorite youtube commentator husky and all of a sudden he reveals that he is hosting a SC map-making contest!! I'm sure you all know of TL and I hope it's ok that I link a thread in my post so here it is : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110095 . The link has all pertinent information on the rules and such, and this is of course a friendly and I would assume amateur map-making contest though the maps will be played in an upcoming tournament.

On to the important stuff. So the map I decided to create is a 3 spawn version of the popular Collosseum II. I'm already regretting attempting to balance a 3 spawn map but I really like the idea and the initial progress enough that I really want to balance it and make the map playable. I have spent some time referring back to other 3 player (moon glaive and outsider mostly) maps to learn things like where the middle of the map is.. how to balance the sizes of the mains and expos.. etc. but I am kind of at a point where I would like some feedback before I spend a ton more hours pushing isom's left and right by 1 hex. I've included a clean image of the map in progress and one containing notes on changes I'd like to make. Please take a look and comment on whatever you'd like.

I haven't done any up-ramps, doodads, rocky ground, sand, mud, etc.. just trying to block in the main areas and balance them right now... as you can see from the images I am definitely having some trouble. I clearly have some specific things in mind that need to be done/changed but please feel free to pick this pre-alpha apart and mention every conceivable fallacy you note. I will be re-doing mineral layouts and geysers but feel free to point out the errors there too. Oh and I'd really like to know how to place neutral sunkens so they show up in game with creep!

Cheers and thank you for any insights!

[ images attached and linked.. hrmm ]



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Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 22 2010, 1:24 pm by dyren.

Here's an update of my efforts..

I spent several (rather unproductive nighttime) hours in Photoshop working on the balance of my map. It was a tough process but I've now got a clear plan going forward. I just know it's going to be another 10 hours in SCMDraft... and I've got work I should be doing.

Cheers

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Comments .. ? Suggestions ..?

Wow, staredit is like a ghost town or something..

This actually looks pretty good. The balance doesn't look pro-T, if anything it's slightly anti-T. Concept isn't bad. Excalibur or bedazed might have more to say about the balance.

As to no comments, SEN's melee section is small. You'll probably get comments soon but slower than if this was a UMS map.

In my opinion, it looks pretty sweet Visually. However, that is the extent of my melee knowledge. Well, it also looks like it might be fun to play on - but that's just speculation.

My only comments thus far are decoration, distances, and tank holes.

I know you're not done so deco isn't so much of an issue.

Watch your distances. Some expos are too close or too far from the ramps. Make things as even as possible. 3 maps are very hard to do, and thus far you've done very well. You also handle your mapping with a lot more professionalism and planning than anyone else around here, well done.

I see some tank holes in random spots. Use doodads, ISOM reshaping, and if needed, value 0 mineral fields to get rid of them.

Wasted space.

How about some island expansions in the top left and bottom left?

It's supposed to be rotationally symmetric, and there's no room for a third island.

Ah, true.

Killer, thanks for the feedback this morning guys.

Zany, I appreciate the comments - as for race balance I had it in mind to try and protect all geysers and mineral lines from being sieged from any low-ground or adjacent area. With all the areas to flank the map definitely accommodates the need for zerg and protoss (especially versus terran) to surround / avoid / or get a good position to engage a terran army. At the same time with relatively narrow (not that narrow) low-ground passages T can hug walls and cliffs while slow-pushing to the middle and then on to the opponents nat or 3rd. I really want to see some games played on this (melee dork!)

Norm, thanks for the compliment!

Excalibur, your youtube tutorial is perhaps one of a kind. I spent a little while searching for some "advanced" (showing aptitude with advanced techniques at least) mapping tutorials and yours was the only one I found. Though you are straight up a dick in it (which I imagine there is a reason for but it eludes me) the video was very informative and you are clearly familiar and comfortable with the workflow in scmdraft and for making sc maps in general. I have seen a lot of your creations and they range from wild to down-right solid. You blend with frightening quickness. Thanks for chiming in I really appreciate it.

I checked distances with equal length lines placed along pathing routes in Photoshop. They are off by a bit. Once I refuel and recharge and have the will-power I'll get back in there and shift those distances to be closer to spot on. There's definitely two places or so in particular that I am having trouble balancing - the rocky ground just outside P1's base (too large) - and the tar outside the 3 o clock position (doesn't match other 2 sides, and has narrower passageways).

Ciara, thanks for the input - I agree that there's wasted space but what're ya gonna do if it's gotta be balanced. Cheers!

Imagodeo, thanks for catchin' that.


Of course I'll update this with any progress - ........ugh willpower...

Ex was annoyed at the melee mappers here when he made that video; it's (probably) nothing personal.

Yea I figured.

It'd be nice if you'd post the map. I need some backwards desert ramp designs...

And it's just a cool map.

If you need backwards Desert-tileset ramps, check out Excalibur's large player maps. He's got several backwards ramps placed.

He has backward desert ramps and you would get the ramps here.

Excellent, I just downloaded all my missing ramp files. Thanks.

http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4003

Here's the link to BWM where you can download the map in it's current beta. I'm watching a game on iccup right now on my map!!

Dang. Were you hosting your own map, or was someone else hosting it and you were amazed and joined?

The contest is hosted by english youtube commentator HuskyStarcraft - I was "amazed" and joined.