Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Map Projects > Topic: (2)Second Pass(n)
(2)Second Pass(n)
Dec 26 2009, 11:18 pm
By: Pr0nogo  

Dec 26 2009, 11:18 pm Pr0nogo Post #1





I'll be brief.

If I don't scrap it, here's what I need to do:
decorate (includes further terrain changes and doodads)
reverse top nat (if I do this, it creates an unbalance, due to the rules pertaining to harvesting gas, but as-is it's relatively easy to harass/destroy the gas)
possibly remove mineral blockage from the bridges
free up more build space in the mains?
EDIT: TURRET ROOM! CRAP! <--- done, although the dumb pic doesn't say so

Attachments:
(2)Second Pass(n).scm
Hits: 1 Size: 66.5kb

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Dec 26 2009, 11:31 pm by Pronogo.




Dec 26 2009, 11:34 pm Jack Post #2

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Top left and bottom right look tankable from that high dirt, put a doodad there or change it so tanks can't be landed there from a dship.

The 3 highdirt layer things are too straight and boring, make them more curvy and natural, while still not tankable. Remember, you can use doodads to stop cliffs being tankable.

Overall, an improvement. Ex or ciara or bedazed can help with more balance than me.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Dec 26 2009, 11:42 pm Pr0nogo Post #3



Quote from name:zany_001
Top left and bottom right look tankable from that high dirt, put a doodad there or change it so tanks can't be landed there from a dship.

The 3 highdirt layer things are too straight and boring, make them more curvy and natural, while still not tankable. Remember, you can use doodads to stop cliffs being tankable.


Overall, an improvement. Ex or ciara or bedazed can help with more balance than me.

They aren't, I just checked.

I tried to edit it around a bit, but I ran into all sorts of tank problems. I'll get something going when I have a bit more time.

Thanks.




Dec 26 2009, 11:42 pm Super Duper Post #4



Read what I wrote to you on (2)Eye of the storm and see if any of those qualify for this map.

EDIT: Also, bad map size. Do 96x96 if you are attempting a 2 player map.



None.

Dec 26 2009, 11:47 pm Jack Post #5

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Are you SURE that NONE of the mins or CC spots are tankable? Some look very close...I can't check ingame right now though.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Dec 26 2009, 11:49 pm Excalibur Post #6

The sword and the faith

Bad map. Almost as bad as your first one.
Now I'm going to be mean:

TOO FUCKING TIGHT. YOU HEAR ME?
Even if the entire mid was nothing but open dirt it would STILL be too linear to be a good map.

AVOID STRAIGHT LINES.
This entire map is a series of straight lines. They are the enemy when making a melee.

NO CONCEPT, NOTHING TO SALVAGE.
There is no reason for you to work on this map any further. It has no concept and is made of nothing but mistakes.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Dec 26 2009, 11:53 pm Super Duper Post #7



Quote from Excalibur
Bad map. Almost as bad as your first one.
Now I'm going to be mean:

TOO FUCKING TIGHT. YOU HEAR ME?
Even if the entire mid was nothing but open dirt it would STILL be too linear to be a good map.

AVOID STRAIGHT LINES.
This entire map is a series of straight lines. They are the enemy when making a melee.

NO CONCEPT, NOTHING TO SALVAGE.
There is no reason for you to work on this map any further. It has no concept and is made of nothing but mistakes.
Oohh! Theres my Excalibur! I missed you so much!



None.

Dec 26 2009, 11:55 pm Pr0nogo Post #8



Quote
Two ways into a main is bad for zerg.
The mains are too small.
Make it so if a zerg player builds a hatchery at the nat, that the creep gets in the way of the main's choke.
The middle expansion has too much minerals.
Tank holes. Everywhere.
Get rid of the straight high terrain. There is no straight terrain in nature.
Your islands need a geyser.
For expansions, you should only have 7-8 mineral fields.
Your mineral formations arent good.
Almost everything is tankable.
There is no concept.
There is no depth.
Never use Raised Jungle (lol). It doesnt look so good. You cant tessellate with it either.
Map is too open

No two-ways-into-the-main.
The creep-in-the-choke works, or is close enough.
There is no middle expo.
There are very few, if any, tank holes (ofc this is me and not someone else).
Not sure exactly what you meant by that, but if you are speaking of the tessellated main/nat walls, read my previous post on that.
The 'islands' you spoke of were supposed to be min-onlies in the other map, but in this map that doesn't exactly matter, considering there are no islands.
Nats have six mineral fields, expoes have four, min-onlies have six, mains have nine.
I didn't encounter any problems with the mineral formations, although when using one of them there hacks that auto-orders your workers to gather minerals, they wouldn't work (at least on the bottom main), but that isn't much of an issue considering I didn't make the map for hackers.
Again, there are few, if any, tank holes.
The concept here was that there's an easy way and a hard way to the other side of the river, but to gain access to the easy way you have to mine out the minerals.... yeah...
Not sure on the depth bit.
Not using Jungle terrain to begin with.
Comments on the open-ness or closed-ness of the map? I'm not exactly good at judging that.

Quote
You forgot to make the tessellated high grounds thin. Terrans can land tanks on them.
Ill be the first one to say this (Sorry, Excalibur) but watch the videos.

Tessellated high grounds are thin this time around.
I watched them.

@size - Well, I was going for something different. How much, exactly, does it lower the quality of play on the map?

EDIT:
Quote from Excalibur
Bad map. Almost as bad as your first one.
Now I'm going to be mean:

TOO FUCKING TIGHT. YOU HEAR ME?
Even if the entire mid was nothing but open dirt it would STILL be too linear to be a good map.

AVOID STRAIGHT LINES.
This entire map is a series of straight lines. They are the enemy when making a melee.

NO CONCEPT, NOTHING TO SALVAGE.
There is no reason for you to work on this map any further. It has no concept and is made of nothing but mistakes.

Fuck it.




Dec 26 2009, 11:56 pm Excalibur Post #9

The sword and the faith

Any map larger than 128 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.

Any map smaller than 96 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.





SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Dec 27 2009, 12:04 am Pr0nogo Post #10



Quote from Excalibur
Any map larger than 128 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.

Any map smaller than 96 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.

I think you meant to say that if it isn't square, it's worthless. Considering ONE OF IT'S DIMENSIONS was 96 and ONE IF IT'S DIMENSIONS was 128, your post means nothing to this map. At all.




Dec 27 2009, 12:07 am Excalibur Post #11

The sword and the faith

Quote from name:Pronogo
Quote from Excalibur
Any map larger than 128 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.

Any map smaller than 96 in one of its dimensions is worthless for melee play.

I think you meant to say that if it isn't square, it's worthless. Considering ONE OF IT'S DIMENSIONS was 96 and ONE IF IT'S DIMENSIONS was 128, your post means nothing to this map. At all.
If I read correctly, you asked about map dimensions in your previous post. If I misread, sorry.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Dec 27 2009, 12:22 am Pr0nogo Post #12



I asked about whether or not 128x96 impacted poorly on melee play.




Dec 27 2009, 1:07 am BeDazed Post #13



It really depends on how you make your map. Peaks of Baekdu was a good map on 128x98. You should take a look at it.



None.

Dec 27 2009, 4:24 am Pr0nogo Post #14



98 works without crashes, eh? Baekdu was the one with the retarded stacked minerals/double-gas mains, right?




Dec 27 2009, 4:29 am BeDazed Post #15



Quote
98 works without crashes, eh? Baekdu was the one with the retarded stacked minerals/double-gas mains, right?
It was a pro map, made by professional people who make maps so much better than you can- that it would be hypocritical to criticize their map, at least by someone of your stature. And it wasn't double gas main. You look in to it, and see what a pro map looks like.
Your map looks like shit, and your attitude is shit. I don't care if your map sucks, but attitude matters. Before you call those maps retarded, look at yourself, and your map. It's all retarded.



None.

Dec 27 2009, 4:39 am Pr0nogo Post #16



Quote from BeDazed
It was a pro map, made by professional people who make maps so much better than you can- that it would be hypocritical to criticize their map, at least by someone of your stature. And it wasn't double gas main. You look in to it, and see what a pro map looks like.
Your map looks like shit, and your attitude is shit. I don't care if your map sucks, but attitude matters. Before you call those maps retarded, look at yourself, and your map. It's all retarded.

Buddy, you can call a movie retarded all you want. Can you make a better movie? No, you probably fucking can't, and it'd be just as bad, if you're fucking lucky.

It's one thing to call my map retarded. Congratulations, how long are we gonna beat this dead horse? It's another thing entirely to call me retarded, as I am by no means impaired deficiently in any way. I'm learning. Sure, it's shit, but were your first few attempts ever so much better than mine that it gives you the right to be a complete and utter troll about it?

Let me answer that for you: no, it doesn't.

Oh, and, FTR, I just booted up a match on it, and it has stacked minerals and a double-gas main, one of which is placed horrendously on the upper starting location.

As for my attitude, you're right - now my attitude is shit. I was merely poking fun, which is a lot fucking less than what you and all your pals've done.




Dec 27 2009, 5:31 am BeDazed Post #17



http://www.panschk.de/mappage/map_thumbnails/%282%29New%20Peaks%20of%20Baekdu%202.2_logo.jpg
This was the fuckin map I was talkin about. And it doesn't have stacked mineral mains and double gas.

And if you can't suck it up, give it up. If you've taken a good look at league maps, your maps wouldn't come out like this. Unless what I said was right.



None.

Dec 27 2009, 4:42 pm Marine Post #18



This is almost like my first attempt, except excalibur didn't go ballistic on my ass like he did here. ^^ At least he's actually back god damn. Keep your mean! :bleh:



None.

Dec 27 2009, 10:41 pm BeDazed Post #19



The problem is, this ISN'T his first attempt.
And I've really told him to PM, not post. It was his choice, he had it coming.



None.

Dec 28 2009, 1:38 pm Pr0nogo Post #20



Quote from BeDazed
The problem is, this ISN'T his first attempt.
And I've really told him to PM, not post. It was his choice, he had it coming.

It's my second attempt, my first real attempt considering I didn't use mirror X-Y on the last one.
I never saw you tell me to PM and not post, hence the thread.




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[06:35 pm]
Ultraviolet -- You might even be able to turn another unused unit into a map revealer imitation with a smaller vision range so that you could have both normal map revealers and smaller map revealers. Not sure about this one though.
[06:33 pm]
Ultraviolet -- youarenotworthy
youarenotworthy shouted: Does anybody know of a way to reveal just a sliver of the map? Smaller than what a map revealer would reveal? Or is there a way to block the map revealer off at a certain point? I can't use units to achieve what I'm trying to do.
Using EUDs, you can reduce the vision range of map revealers. But of course this will apply to all map revealers. They have a default vision range of 10. For some of my maps, I've been increasing their vision range to 11 and giving them detection and it works nicely. Reducing vision range should work the same.
[06:30 pm]
Ultraviolet -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: I got an emergency phone call to stay home due to civil unrest :|
are you in Minneapolis?
[01:25 pm]
NudeRaider -- or do you need actual vision (not just revealing the terrain)
[01:24 pm]
NudeRaider -- youarenotworthy
youarenotworthy shouted: Does anybody know of a way to reveal just a sliver of the map? Smaller than what a map revealer would reveal? Or is there a way to block the map revealer off at a certain point? I can't use units to achieve what I'm trying to do.
if at the beginning of the game (as opposed to at some later time in game) is enough, just edit the fog of war layer.
[01:22 pm]
NudeRaider -- as an innocent bystander, mind you
[01:22 pm]
NudeRaider -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: I got an emergency phone call to stay home due to civil unrest :|
and apparently you should follow that advice: https://streamable.com/u2jzoo -- crazy things going on over there. You're not even safe from police harassment on your own property.
[10:01 am]
Oh_Man -- Units and map revealers are only way. Unless there's some EUD solution I'm not aware of.
[09:57 am]
IlyaSnopchenko -- Oh_Man
Oh_Man shouted: You can also use burrowed Zerg units.
The OP says he cannot use units. But if it's not units, what else? (there's a command to reveal the area in AISE, but it's only for 1.16)
[09:51 am]
Oh_Man -- You can also use burrowed Zerg units.
Please log in to shout.


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