Obesity
Nov 6 2009, 11:26 pm
By: Centreri
Pages: < 1 2 3 4 59 >
 

Nov 8 2009, 1:14 am MasterJohnny Post #41



Quote from Centreri

Quote
But why should I have to pay to keep other people healthy? I do not think the tax will change eating habits. You can call a potato pretty healthy and there would be no tax on buying them but once I deep fry them.... People are still going to get fat even if you tax the "unhealthy" foods.

This one size fits all solution unhealthy food tax has loopholes.
To deep fry something, you need oil or fat. I think that'll be taxed. ;)

Why would you tax plant based cooking oil? Taxing cooking oil will hurt everybody because it becomes difficult to cook anything without it. Biodiesel prices will probably go up. I find your treating of cooking oil as a commodity disgusting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/business/worldbusiness/19iht-palmoil.1.9339824.html

To ClansAreForGays: I assume you have never deep fried anything before. You do not need a deep fryer. You can use a wok or a pot filled with oil and deep fry that way.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 8 2009, 1:38 am by MasterJohnny.



Philosophy deals with unanswered questions. Religion deals with unquestioned answers. I am a Mathematician

Nov 8 2009, 2:26 am ClansAreForGays Post #42



Quote from ShredderIV
Quote
Quote
Not to mention the fact that basically every fast food business would go out of business
It would wreck the fast food economy, and give a huge boom to the healthy-choice food economy. Getting rid of 2 McDonalds in a mile radius of each other is a good thing.
So making every fast food company go out of business, getting rid of millions of jobs wouldn't make the economy worse?
1) Not all of the fast food restaurants will shut down.
2) Just as many healthy-choice restaurants will open up to replace the jobs
3) McDonalds and Burger King can easily adapt and just start serving untaxed food that doesn't fucking kill people.

anything else?


Quote
To ClansAreForGays: I assume you have never deep fried anything before. You do not need a deep fryer. You can use a wok or a pot filled with oil and deep fry that way.
And I assume you completely missed my point being that it just needs to stop being EASY to turn into a lard ass. You can still go out of your way to kill your self.




Nov 8 2009, 2:38 am Centreri Post #43

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
Why would you tax plant based cooking oil? Taxing cooking oil will hurt everybody because it becomes difficult to cook anything without it. Biodiesel prices will probably go up. I find your treating of cooking oil as a commodity disgusting.
America isn't India. At any rate, there could be a quota where a family of x could buy x of cooking oil every x days without paying taxes on it. It's really a minor point.

I also completely agree with CAFG's points about... well, everything, really. It's way too easy to get fat.

American disregard for the nations health is astounding. I don't believe most cities in America even require calorie counts in restaurants. The education system doesn't teach about how to check if a food is healthy or not based on the nutrition tags. Unhealthy food is much cheaper than simple, healthy food, and all three of these things can be changed by the government, but it does nothing.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 2:53 am Riney Post #44



Quote from Centreri
and all three of these things can be changed by the government, but it does nothing.

And yet so many probably wonder why we havent cured cancer yet...

Over population is obesity to the planet.



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Nov 8 2009, 2:58 am Centreri Post #45

Relatively ancient and inactive

That's another issue altogether. For that, I turn to eugenics :P.
Quote
And yet so many probably wonder why we havent cured cancer yet...
Or why we don't have warp drive.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 5:22 am rayNimagi Post #46



No matter how much you tax the food, people will find a way to become fat. If it was up to the government to determine what foods qualified as "fattening" enough to be taxed, they'd either get it wrong, leave loopholes, or fast food restaurants will resort to using artificial substances which would be just as bad, or even worse, than ordinary fattening foods.

I'd suggest raising the tax on gasoline (and the cars themselves) to promote walking as opposed to driving, but I know a lot people would hate that:

1. Some places are too far to walk and have no public transportation.

2. Increasing tax on automobiles would hurt the already dying American vehicle industry.

3. Senators, representatives, and other government officials are sponsored by automobile manufacturers.

And ShredderIV, a lot of obese people don't die before age 30.



Win by luck, lose by skill.

Nov 8 2009, 6:24 am Syphon Post #47



Quote from Fire_Kame
Quote from Syphon

Quote from Fire_Kame
I've gained forty pounds after being diagnosed with a thyroid disease, and I'm slowly getting it under control. Can I say that it is what I eat? No, its my metabolism. I don't eat that bad, either. (inb4 kame's a fat chick).

This makes no sense, if anything you should've gained the weight BEFORE diagnosis, not after, and once this actual illness is under control via (probably) thyroxine supplements, your weight will stableize to the same level it was before your hormone production shut down. And if you eat poorly, yes, you will still gain more weight. Furthermore, hypothyroidism is only relevant to 3% of the adult population, and has some pretty goddamn obvious symptoms, and is easy to treat. It's completely irrelevant in the conversation about what to do about obesity. (Oh, and incidentally, hypothyroidism CAN be caused by what you eat, so it is entirely possible that yes, you can say it's what you eat. And if it is, and you don't change your diet, the hormone supplements won't really help in the long run. This is the only time (in a modern country, where thyroxine is easily available) when obesity will actually be brought on by thyroid conditions, so any obese person who blames it on their thyroid is, at least partially to blame.)

You're assuming that there's one type of thyroid disorder? I had Graves' Diesease, an overactive thyroid: the week before I was diagnosed I lost about 20 lbs (yes, one week). After I started treatment, my thyroid did not even out as they had hoped, but they insisted I should still take my medicine, despite it horribly debilitating my immune system - god knows why - and causing me to gain weight at an increased weight, not to mention it horribly aggravated the other symptoms of Graves' Disease, such as anxiety and panic attacks. In the first year and a half, I went from 5mg of Tapozole to 20mg of it, and it fluxuated everywhere in between. It was shoddy diagnosis that did it. I could have had my thyroid removed from the get-go, but I that might have forced me into hypothyroid. So I took my chances. I am not taking my medicine anymore and I feel better and I've started to lose weight at a natural rate. Just don't tell my doctor. They think they're controlling my thyroid on 10mg daily.

Graves' Disease has a yet unknown cause. It is suggested that it is inherited, and it women are more susceptible to it: about 1 in 4 women I believe get it. My Aunt had it, so it could be from her, if inherited other fun medical problems from that side, too. It can also be caused by stress: when I was diagnosed, I also was in the process of getting over mono, and I was emotionally/mentally stressed for other reasons. It is an auto immune disorder, but a very slight one. Now that I stopped taking the medicine, my immune system is functioning normally. Graves' Disease is basically when your immune system sends antibodies to aggressively attack your thyroid, secreting more hormone that speeds up metabolism. It is important that I went in when I did, because given how progressed it had appeared to be, on top of the the current medical complications, I could have forced myself into thyroid storm.

So really syphon, do your homework. There's more than one type of thyroid disease. Also, this: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/graves-disease/DS00181

I do my homework, I pretty much know everything about thyroid physiology, I just assumed because you were gaining weight you were suffering from an under activity condition, not an over activity one. :P You should've talked about the weight gain being caused by medication, not your thyroid problems.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 7:29 am ShredderIV Post #48



Quote
And ShredderIV, a lot of obese people don't die before age 30.
Ummm, and i'm sure you've heard of an exaggeration?



None.

Nov 8 2009, 1:31 pm Centreri Post #49

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
No matter how much you tax the food, people will find a way to become fat. If it was up to the government to determine what foods qualified as "fattening" enough to be taxed, they'd either get it wrong, leave loopholes, or fast food restaurants will resort to using artificial substances which would be just as bad, or even worse, than ordinary fattening foods.

I'd suggest raising the tax on gasoline (and the cars themselves) to promote walking as opposed to driving, but I know a lot people would hate that:

1. Some places are too far to walk and have no public transportation.

2. Increasing tax on automobiles would hurt the already dying American vehicle industry.

3. Senators, representatives, and other government officials are sponsored by automobile manufacturers.

And ShredderIV, a lot of obese people don't die before age 30.
You talk like people want to get fat. Yes, people will get fat anyway, but if they have to focus on eating unhealthy foods to do it, that's good. Seriously, who's going to be looking at loopholes to find the least healthy foods available?

Additionally, the US doesn't have the public transportation infrastructure to handle taxes on cars and gasoline, and this problem is magnified by the suburbia phenomenon, where people are unnecessarily spread out.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 7:37 pm MasterJohnny Post #50



Quote from Centreri
You talk like people want to get fat. Yes, people will get fat anyway, but if they have to focus on eating unhealthy foods to do it, that's good. Seriously, who's going to be looking at loopholes to find the least healthy foods available?

Additionally, the US doesn't have the public transportation infrastructure to handle taxes on cars and gasoline, and this problem is magnified by the suburbia phenomenon, where people are unnecessarily spread out.

I will look for the least healthy food possible. Yes seriously. I enjoy the microwaveable meals and the instant noodles because its quick and its simple and I dont seem to be getting any fatter. This tax is likely to ruin my diet because your also taxing cooking oil. It takes cooking oil to cook most things. If I can't cook healthy food why should I buy it? If normal healthy food is going to cost more why should I change?



Philosophy deals with unanswered questions. Religion deals with unquestioned answers. I am a Mathematician

Nov 8 2009, 7:51 pm Centreri Post #51

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
I will look for the least healthy food possible. Yes seriously. I enjoy the microwaveable meals and the instant noodles because its quick and its simple and I dont seem to be getting any fatter. This tax is likely to ruin my diet because your also taxing cooking oil. It takes cooking oil to cook most things. If I can't cook healthy food why should I buy it? If normal healthy food is going to cost more why should I change?
You do that, and enjoy paying the taxes. Other, non-crazy people will benefit from them.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 8:15 pm MasterJohnny Post #52



Quote from Centreri
You do that, and enjoy paying the taxes. Other, non-crazy people will benefit from them.

Clearly I am not going to pay the taxes. I will go find loopholes. I think many people would also find loopholes as this society is seems dependent on food that is made with speed. I think most people would like a 3min microwaved meal instead of a 10min meal made with patience.



Philosophy deals with unanswered questions. Religion deals with unquestioned answers. I am a Mathematician

Nov 8 2009, 8:18 pm Centreri Post #53

Relatively ancient and inactive

Oh. Well, that just killed my entire argument. What is the government going to do, with you deep-frying red meat and snickering evilly!



None.

Nov 8 2009, 8:52 pm Norm Post #54



here's something that you guys are neglecting:

Go to your grocery store, go into the cereal aisle. If your preferred grocery store is anything like mine, you will see a part of the aisle dedicated to health cereals, and the remaining part of the aisle containing normal cereal. Pick up a box of the healthy cereal. You may notice that it's price tag has a number almost 3X that of the fruity pebbles 4 feet down the shelf.

Next, purchase the healthy cereal. In addition, purchase a box of any of the normal cereals - the one that looks the most appealing to you. This part of the experiment is over. Moving on...

You're at home. Bust out your gallon of milk and enjoy a serving of delicious normal cereal. Savor each bite because what you're about to do next is going to ruin your day. After you enjoy a few bites of the normal cereal, pour yourself some of the healthy stuff and dig in.

You may notice that it tastes horrible. Actually, if you're taste buds work properly, you will definitely notice the horrid flavor. This is the end of the experiment.

Conclusion: You just paid 3X more for cereal that tastes horrible when you could have just gotten froot loops instead. Healthy food sucks.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 9:21 pm ClansAreForGays Post #55



When you've backed them into a corner and all they can reply with is crazy statements like:
Quote
I will look for the least healthy food possible.
I think it's pretty safe to say you've won the argument.

Quote from Norm
here's something that you guys are neglecting:

Go to your grocery store, go into the cereal aisle. If your preferred grocery store is anything like mine, you will see a part of the aisle dedicated to health cereals, and the remaining part of the aisle containing normal cereal. Pick up a box of the healthy cereal. You may notice that it's price tag has a number almost 3X that of the fruity pebbles 4 feet down the shelf.

Next, purchase the healthy cereal. In addition, purchase a box of any of the normal cereals - the one that looks the most appealing to you. This part of the experiment is over. Moving on...

You're at home. Bust out your gallon of milk and enjoy a serving of delicious normal cereal. Savor each bite because what you're about to do next is going to ruin your day. After you enjoy a few bites of the normal cereal, pour yourself some of the healthy stuff and dig in.

You may notice that it tastes horrible. Actually, if you're taste buds work properly, you will definitely notice the horrid flavor. This is the end of the experiment.

Conclusion: You just paid 3X more for cereal that tastes horrible when you could have just gotten froot loops instead. Healthy food sucks.
We aren't neglecting anything, you just happen to be posting in a topic that you haven't fully read. Cent already touched on that pointing out that Nixon made it easier for junk food to flourish and be cheap.

Your second step in your scenario the person is just setting their self up for failure. Good thing breakfast doesn't work that way.

Not to mention that a lot of 'junk' cereal is actually heavily fortified with vitamins and minerals. Not bad for you at all.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 8 2009, 9:28 pm by ClansAreForGays.




Nov 8 2009, 10:27 pm KrayZee Post #56



My solutions:
1. Make healthy food taste more delicious but still remain healthy
2. Force parents to keep kids healthy at an early age, since obesity can happen easily as a toddler. There are parents who are too much of a pussy to do this, and instead would rather keep kids happy by providing fatty food
3. Change the food pyramid. And good thing they already did, but the old food pyramid was either confusing on servings or told kids to eat fatty food cause it was on the top of the pyramid, and basically told them fatty food is King of the World. (Seriously, if the old food pyramid is compared to the feudalism pyramid, top provided higher quality)
4. Forced diet. But no, we live in America so that's impossible.
5. Added policies such as one meal in limited servings per person (Much like buying stuff through the internet, 1 ____ per household). And I don't give a fuck if people protest.
6. Ban or close down restaurants/stores. The city where I live had banned Wal-mart. I don't give a fuck if this is protested too.
7. Kill them all, but I oppose this.



None.

Nov 8 2009, 10:57 pm Centreri Post #57

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
here's something that you guys are neglecting:

Go to your grocery store, go into the cereal aisle. If your preferred grocery store is anything like mine, you will see a part of the aisle dedicated to health cereals, and the remaining part of the aisle containing normal cereal. Pick up a box of the healthy cereal. You may notice that it's price tag has a number almost 3X that of the fruity pebbles 4 feet down the shelf.

Next, purchase the healthy cereal. In addition, purchase a box of any of the normal cereals - the one that looks the most appealing to you. This part of the experiment is over. Moving on...

You're at home. Bust out your gallon of milk and enjoy a serving of delicious normal cereal. Savor each bite because what you're about to do next is going to ruin your day. After you enjoy a few bites of the normal cereal, pour yourself some of the healthy stuff and dig in.

You may notice that it tastes horrible. Actually, if you're taste buds work properly, you will definitely notice the horrid flavor. This is the end of the experiment.

Conclusion: You just paid 3X more for cereal that tastes horrible when you could have just gotten froot loops instead. Healthy food sucks.
Eat an apple.

Quote
My solutions:
1. Make healthy food taste more delicious but still remain healthy
2. Force parents to keep kids healthy at an early age, since obesity can happen easily as a toddler. There are parents who are too much of a pussy to do this, and instead would rather keep kids happy by providing fatty food
3. Change the food pyramid. And good thing they already did, but the old food pyramid was either confusing on servings or told kids to eat fatty food cause it was on the top of the pyramid, and basically told them fatty food is King of the World. (Seriously, if the old food pyramid is compared to the feudalism pyramid, top provided higher quality)
4. Forced diet. But no, we live in America so that's impossible.
5. Added policies such as one meal in limited servings per person (Much like buying stuff through the internet, 1 ____ per household). And I don't give a fuck if people protest.
6. Ban or close down restaurants/stores. The city where I live had banned Wal-mart. I don't give a fuck if this is protested too.
7. Kill them all, but I oppose this.
1) Better, tastier, foods will be created once unhealthy foods are heavily taxed.
2) Eh. Not the biggest problem, but, again, I think that very fat toddler food will be taxed, too.
3) No idea.
4) Even I'm against this, and I'm a pro-eugenics socialist crazy person.
5) I'm somewhat against this, because, when ordering out, it'll get very difficult. What, when they deliver you have to show them that there are x people in your house? Well, one of them's in the bathroom, now you can't get food for them.
6) Yay this.
7) Fat people?



None.

Nov 8 2009, 11:15 pm KrayZee Post #58



Quote from Centreri
Quote
My solutions:
1. Make healthy food taste more delicious but still remain healthy
2. Force parents to keep kids healthy at an early age, since obesity can happen easily as a toddler. There are parents who are too much of a pussy to do this, and instead would rather keep kids happy by providing fatty food
3. Change the food pyramid. And good thing they already did, but the old food pyramid was either confusing on servings or told kids to eat fatty food cause it was on the top of the pyramid, and basically told them fatty food is King of the World. (Seriously, if the old food pyramid is compared to the feudalism pyramid, top provided higher quality)
4. Forced diet. But no, we live in America so that's impossible.
5. Added policies such as one meal in limited servings per person (Much like buying stuff through the internet, 1 ____ per household). And I don't give a fuck if people protest.
6. Ban or close down restaurants/stores. The city where I live had banned Wal-mart. I don't give a fuck if this is protested too.
7. Kill them all, but I oppose this.
1) Better, tastier, foods will be created once unhealthy foods are heavily taxed.
2) Eh. Not the biggest problem, but, again, I think that very fat toddler food will be taxed, too.
3) No idea.
4) Even I'm against this, and I'm a pro-eugenics socialist crazy person.
5) I'm somewhat against this, because, when ordering out, it'll get very difficult. What, when they deliver you have to show them that there are x people in your house? Well, one of them's in the bathroom, now you can't get food for them.
6) Yay this.
7) Fat people?
1. People can still create healthy, delicious food regardless if unhealthy food are taxed or not...
2. You have no idea how bad it is to accumulate overweight as a child at an early age, and have it permanent as an adult until changing habits. It is one of the worst problems that contributes to obesity. You can google.
3. Then you shouldn't make this a topic. The old food pyramid was a problem that contributed to obesity despite its support on healthy food.
4. That's why Americans, even you, do not like the idea.
5. Bathroom? What are you talking about? And besides, this will happen eventually in the future due to overpopulation limiting supplies.
6. Good.
7. Yes, fat people.



None.

Nov 9 2009, 12:54 am Fire_Kame Post #59

a left leaning coexistence nut

Quote from Syphon
Quote from Fire_Kame
Quote from Syphon

Quote from Fire_Kame
I've gained forty pounds after being diagnosed with a thyroid disease, and I'm slowly getting it under control. Can I say that it is what I eat? No, its my metabolism. I don't eat that bad, either. (inb4 kame's a fat chick).

This makes no sense, if anything you should've gained the weight BEFORE diagnosis, not after, and once this actual illness is under control via (probably) thyroxine supplements, your weight will stableize to the same level it was before your hormone production shut down. And if you eat poorly, yes, you will still gain more weight. Furthermore, hypothyroidism is only relevant to 3% of the adult population, and has some pretty goddamn obvious symptoms, and is easy to treat. It's completely irrelevant in the conversation about what to do about obesity. (Oh, and incidentally, hypothyroidism CAN be caused by what you eat, so it is entirely possible that yes, you can say it's what you eat. And if it is, and you don't change your diet, the hormone supplements won't really help in the long run. This is the only time (in a modern country, where thyroxine is easily available) when obesity will actually be brought on by thyroid conditions, so any obese person who blames it on their thyroid is, at least partially to blame.)

You're assuming that there's one type of thyroid disorder? I had Graves' Diesease, an overactive thyroid: the week before I was diagnosed I lost about 20 lbs (yes, one week). After I started treatment, my thyroid did not even out as they had hoped, but they insisted I should still take my medicine, despite it horribly debilitating my immune system - god knows why - and causing me to gain weight at an increased weight, not to mention it horribly aggravated the other symptoms of Graves' Disease, such as anxiety and panic attacks. In the first year and a half, I went from 5mg of Tapozole to 20mg of it, and it fluxuated everywhere in between. It was shoddy diagnosis that did it. I could have had my thyroid removed from the get-go, but I that might have forced me into hypothyroid. So I took my chances. I am not taking my medicine anymore and I feel better and I've started to lose weight at a natural rate. Just don't tell my doctor. They think they're controlling my thyroid on 10mg daily.

Graves' Disease has a yet unknown cause. It is suggested that it is inherited, and it women are more susceptible to it: about 1 in 4 women I believe get it. My Aunt had it, so it could be from her, if inherited other fun medical problems from that side, too. It can also be caused by stress: when I was diagnosed, I also was in the process of getting over mono, and I was emotionally/mentally stressed for other reasons. It is an auto immune disorder, but a very slight one. Now that I stopped taking the medicine, my immune system is functioning normally. Graves' Disease is basically when your immune system sends antibodies to aggressively attack your thyroid, secreting more hormone that speeds up metabolism. It is important that I went in when I did, because given how progressed it had appeared to be, on top of the the current medical complications, I could have forced myself into thyroid storm.

So really syphon, do your homework. There's more than one type of thyroid disease. Also, this: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/graves-disease/DS00181

I do my homework, I pretty much know everything about thyroid physiology, I just assumed because you were gaining weight you were suffering from an under activity condition, not an over activity one. :P You should've talked about the weight gain being caused by medication, not your thyroid problems.

NO Y- oh wait. You're not trolling. Mutual misunderstanding. You're a gentleman, and people in this forum could learn from you.

I'm still waiting for a rebuttal on my microchip solution, thread.




Nov 9 2009, 1:43 am rayNimagi Post #60



Quote from rayNimagi
No matter how much you tax the food, people will find a way to become fat. If it was up to the government to determine what foods qualified as "fattening" enough to be taxed, they'd either get it wrong, leave loopholes, or fast food restaurants will resort to using artificial substances which would be just as bad, or even worse, than ordinary fattening foods.

Quote from Centreri
You talk like people want to get fat. Yes, people will get fat anyway, but if they have to focus on eating unhealthy foods to do it, that's good. Seriously, who's going to be looking at loopholes to find the least healthy foods available?

McDonald's will be looking for loopholes so that they can still serve "delicious" food.

Quote from Norm
here's something that you guys are neglecting:

Go to your grocery store, go into the cereal aisle. If your preferred grocery store is anything like mine, you will see a part of the aisle dedicated to health cereals, and the remaining part of the aisle containing normal cereal. Pick up a box of the healthy cereal. You may notice that it's price tag has a number almost 3X that of the fruity pebbles 4 feet down the shelf.

Next, purchase the healthy cereal. In addition, purchase a box of any of the normal cereals - the one that looks the most appealing to you. This part of the experiment is over. Moving on...

You're at home. Bust out your gallon of milk and enjoy a serving of delicious normal cereal. Savor each bite because what you're about to do next is going to ruin your day. After you enjoy a few bites of the normal cereal, pour yourself some of the healthy stuff and dig in.

You may notice that it tastes horrible. Actually, if you're taste buds work properly, you will definitely notice the horrid flavor. This is the end of the experiment.

Conclusion: You just paid 3X more for cereal that tastes horrible when you could have just gotten froot loops instead. Healthy food sucks.

1. Not all "healthy" cereal tastes horrible. A majority of the population thinks it tastes bad because the sweet, sugary cereals taste a lot better. Also, both "healthy" and "sugary" cereals are fortified with vitamins and minerals. That being said, there certainly are some very bland "healthy" cereals that taste extremely bland.

2. The reason people are inclined to purchase and consume unhealthy food is because of the way they're marketed. Monolithic corporations like Coca-Cola spend millions on advertising each year, while I have yet to see more than one or two fruit commercials on any media form. (Come to think of it, I don't remember the last time I saw a TV, internet, or magazine ad for ANY fruit or vegetable.) In addition, if you notice where the "healthy" cereals are (top of the grocery shelf) and look where the "unhealthy" cereals are (lower shelves at toddlers' and young children's' eye levels), you might realize that kids are forced into wanting the brightly-packaged, sugary cereals from an early age.

Praise be to commercialism.



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