Obesity
Nov 6 2009, 11:26 pm
By: Centreri
Pages: 1 2 39 >
 

Nov 6 2009, 11:26 pm Centreri Post #1

Relatively ancient and inactive

So, obesity is a problem in the United States (and other places). What do you think the government should do to start fixing the problem?

I think we should, basically, impose very high taxes on certain foods depending on how unhealthy they are, and directly tax people for being obese. Why is this our problem? Because healthcare for these people is coming out of your pockets - through medicare and medicaid. Taxes of maybe 100% on soda and similar drinks and foods and as high as 200% (or higher) on unhealthy burgers and the like, in addition to lighter taxes on the unhealthyish meat and other unhealthy pre-processed products you buy in the supermarket, would not only curb obesity but also raise revenue for the government, possibly even allowing subsidies on healthier foods, like fruit, rice, vegetables or fish. Companies like McDonalds will have problems, of course, but we don't care, and these taxes would greatly increase demand for healthier versions of current staple foods, like pizza or burgers, driving innovation in this area.

Your thoughts?



None.

Nov 6 2009, 11:31 pm Norm Post #2



Completely stupid. Food is not the major cause of obesity. It's more closely related to medical issues (family history), Upbringing (social class and the way you are raised by parents) and of course how physically active a person is.



None.

Nov 6 2009, 11:33 pm Centreri Post #3

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote from Norm
It's more closely related to medical issues (family history)
Yeah. Because you'll be fat eating fruit and vegetables, because your dad was.
Quote from Norm
Upbringing (social class and the way you are raised by parents)
If your parents teach you manners, you stay thin!
Quote from Norm
course how physically active a person is.
This is, of course, true. However, food is definitely a major contributor, and I don't see America's physical activity compensating for the food, as obesity rates keep going up.

Ex said this in the shoutbox, and I'll respond to it:
Quote from Excalibur
Also, Cent is an idiot. I eat 100% unhealthy foods, I am 110lbs, and get sick less than twice a year. If you want to tax people for BEING fat, fine, but let us skinny people eat what we like tax free.
I'm assuming you're less than 20 years old. If you eat 100% unhealthy foods, you'll start getting fat with age as your metabolism slows down as you age. The taxes aren't just for letting people like you stay thin, they're to enforce a lifestyle of healthy eating for the future. You're not a big blob that the healthcare system has to drag around in your diapers, you're one... well, in your diapers, but at the end of life.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 6 2009, 11:39 pm by Centreri.



None.

Nov 6 2009, 11:40 pm Excalibur Post #4

The sword and the faith

Quote from Centreri
Quote from Excalibur
Also, Cent is an idiot. I eat 100% unhealthy foods, I am 110lbs, and get sick less than twice a year. If you want to tax people for BEING fat, fine, but let us skinny people eat what we like tax free.
I'm assuming you're less than 20 years old. If you eat 100% unhealthy foods, you'll start getting fat with age as your metabolism slows down as you age. The taxes aren't just for letting people like you stay thin, they're to enforce a lifestyle of healthy eating for the future. You're not a big blob that the healthcare system has to drag around in your diapers, you're one... well, in your diapers, but at the end of life.
It is my right to eat whatever I want. I don't remember ever asking for health care. I give the gov't full permission to shoot me in the head the minute I become overweight too, since I wouldn't want to live as a fat person either. I think of fat people the same way I think of the elderly and retarded: Useless and destined for gas chambers.




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Nov 6 2009, 11:45 pm Centreri Post #5

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote from Excalibur
It is my right to eat whatever I want. I don't remember ever asking for health care. I give the gov't full permission to shoot me in the head the minute I become overweight too, since I wouldn't want to live as a fat person either. I think of fat people the same way I think of the elderly and retarded: Useless and destined for gas chambers.
Ah. Well, you're approaching it from an entirely selfish perspective, there's not much I can sway there. I think you'll survive less MacDonalds, and it'll be worth it for the benefits to society.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 12:09 am Excalibur Post #6

The sword and the faith

Quote from Centreri
Quote from Excalibur
It is my right to eat whatever I want. I don't remember ever asking for health care. I give the gov't full permission to shoot me in the head the minute I become overweight too, since I wouldn't want to live as a fat person either. I think of fat people the same way I think of the elderly and retarded: Useless and destined for gas chambers.
Ah. Well, you're approaching it from an entirely selfish perspective, there's not much I can sway there. I think you'll survive less MacDonalds, and it'll be worth it for the benefits to society.
Actually I wont. I don't eat a single fruit or vegetable, I have gone days at a time without eating because there was nothing processed and unhealthy in the house. I cannot adjust, nor should I have to.

You're taking the wrong freedoms for the wrong reasons here. You shouldn't be taxing the food for people making the wrong choices, tax the people making the choices, or better yet, educate them about why their choice is wrong. The people who are skinny and not a medical burden should not be punished in the name of a greater good. Its the most unamerican thing I can possibly think of besides France.




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Nov 7 2009, 12:14 am l)ark_ssj9kevin Post #7

Just here for the activity

Taxing "unhealthy" food is stupid. This is not the only way to prevent obesity.



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Nov 7 2009, 12:20 am ToA Post #8

Que Sera, Sera.

The reason why people are fat is because they are lazy, not the food they eat.

We don't even have to get up to change the channel, people (Americans) are lazy as of late, since all this new technology people see no need to go anywhere, people need to start moving again like the old days.




Nov 7 2009, 1:14 am Centreri Post #9

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
Actually I wont. I don't eat a single fruit or vegetable, I have gone days at a time without eating because there was nothing processed and unhealthy in the house. I cannot adjust, nor should I have to.

You're taking the wrong freedoms for the wrong reasons here. You shouldn't be taxing the food for people making the wrong choices, tax the people making the choices, or better yet, educate them about why their choice is wrong. The people who are skinny and not a medical burden should not be punished in the name of a greater good. Its the most unamerican thing I can possibly think of besides France.
Your eating unhealthy foods obsessively is disgusting. Anyway, do you have another alternative? You want to take away the freedom to not exercise? Or do you just not care about the rising obesity?

Quote
Taxing "unhealthy" food is stupid. This is not the only way to prevent obesity.
Easiest and most effective way.

Quote
The reason why people are fat is because they are lazy, not the food they eat.

We don't even have to get up to change the channel, people (Americans) are lazy as of late, since all this new technology people see no need to go anywhere, people need to start moving again like the old days.
So your alternative is... removing technology?



None.

Nov 7 2009, 1:22 am Excalibur Post #10

The sword and the faith

Quote from Centreri
Your eating unhealthy foods obsessively is disgusting. Anyway, do you have another alternative? You want to take away the freedom to not exercise? Or do you just not care about the rising obesity?
I find your fruits and vegetables to taste disgusting. No, I don't have an alternative, nor do I need one. I'm not concerned about what anyone else does for the reason that it is none of my bloody business. If they want to be fat fine, but then they get denied medicare. You want to be fat? Don't expect us to take care of you. America has a bad habit of taking away freedoms to compensate those who won't help themselves. So fuck them, they can be as unhealthy as they like, but they should be denied medicare for choosing to do so.




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Nov 7 2009, 1:36 am Riney Post #11



Quote from Centreri
Quote
We don't even have to get up to change the channel, people (Americans) are lazy as of late, since all this new technology people see no need to go anywhere, people need to start moving again like the old days.
So your alternative is... removing technology?

I actually see how Anarchy could cause the mass removal of overweight people, you must adjust to feed, to feed you must kill, to kill you must be able to.



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Nov 7 2009, 2:03 am Centreri Post #12

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote
I find your fruits and vegetables to taste disgusting. No, I don't have an alternative, nor do I need one. I'm not concerned about what anyone else does for the reason that it is none of my bloody business. If they want to be fat fine, but then they get denied medicare. You want to be fat? Don't expect us to take care of you. America has a bad habit of taking away freedoms to compensate those who won't help themselves. So fuck them, they can be as unhealthy as they like, but they should be denied medicare for choosing to do so.
Disgustingly selfish outlook on this. Especially when you're one of those who won't help themselves, who are being extremely unhealthy. I'd like to see how you look at 40 if you keep up your diet.

Quote
I actually see how Anarchy could cause the mass removal of overweight people, you must adjust to feed, to feed you must kill, to kill you must be able to.
I think raised taxes is a nicer solution.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 2:19 am Kaias Post #13



Saying that imposing a tax for being obese is nice but it isn't that simple. What are you going to do, make mandatory semi-annual check-ups so that they can determine your fat tax? This wouldn't go over well at all if you tried to enact.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 2:30 am Excalibur Post #14

The sword and the faith

Quote from Centreri
Quote
I find your fruits and vegetables to taste disgusting. No, I don't have an alternative, nor do I need one. I'm not concerned about what anyone else does for the reason that it is none of my bloody business. If they want to be fat fine, but then they get denied medicare. You want to be fat? Don't expect us to take care of you. America has a bad habit of taking away freedoms to compensate those who won't help themselves. So fuck them, they can be as unhealthy as they like, but they should be denied medicare for choosing to do so.
Disgustingly selfish outlook on this. Especially when you're one of those who won't help themselves, who are being extremely unhealthy. I'd like to see how you look at 40 if you keep up your diet.
I don't plan on living to 40.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Nov 7 2009, 2:42 am MasterJohnny Post #15



So I, a thin person, have to pay a tax to buy unhealthy food? There is some kind of discrimination that i do not like here.

There are many problems that lead to obesity that I think a one size fits all solution tax is not going to fix obesity.
For example, I have heard that many school's lunch menu does not fit the dietary needs of the government food pyramid because the food budget has not increased. As a result, many kids are eating a somewhat unhealthy but free lunch.

There is also a income problem with some families. Some families may buy microwavable food or cup noodles because they lack the time to cook or the money to buy healthy food. (In this case, I think a tax will worsen the situation because while they are eating less junk food they probably will still not get dietary needs.)

In my case, I am a perfectly fine 160 pound 19 year old kid who eats lots of junk food and probably has a genetic predisposition to be thin.
and if a tax is implemented, I will probably make my own potato chips, other fried stuff, ect



Philosophy deals with unanswered questions. Religion deals with unquestioned answers. I am a Mathematician

Nov 7 2009, 3:11 am Fierce Post #16



Quote from Centreri
Quote from Excalibur
It is my right to eat whatever I want. I don't remember ever asking for health care. I give the gov't full permission to shoot me in the head the minute I become overweight too, since I wouldn't want to live as a fat person either. I think of fat people the same way I think of the elderly and retarded: Useless and destined for gas chambers.
Ah. Well, you're approaching it from an entirely selfish perspective, there's not much I can sway there. I think you'll survive less MacDonalds, and it'll be worth it for the benefits to society.
And you aren't? Think about the people who actually are obese. Obese people have rights just like everyone else. Someone who doesn't understand what its like to actually be obese, shouldn't force anything upon anyone else. It is the individual that must come to the conclusion themselves that they want to change. Forcing such laws would only cause problems.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 3:33 am Vi3t-X Post #17



The minute you say taxes, people will go "Hey, go fuck yourself."

And besides, eating the occasional burger would not kill you. Nor should you empty twice as much of your wallet for the same meal.
Fast food was designed to be prepared quickly. People just get addicted to it.

I don't eat extremely healthy (then again, Asians always eat healthy, don't we?). Regardless, it's not the food you consume that causes you to be fat. It's the way your body processes the food. If you refuse to exercise, the energy you receive from your food is stored as fat. Exercising consumes energy. When you do not have enough energy to meet the needs of your body during exercise, you consume fat. Want to hurt obesity? Make people exercise.

Not only that, but the simple thought of just fifteen minutes of aerobics could probably solve everything. Obesity works on an exponential factor. The fatter you are, chances are, the fatter you will come, should you not put a halt to it.

Oh right. I'm fat. I'm 160lbs at 6'.
No wait, DM saw my picture. I'm not fat. Muscle weighs more than fat. Yay.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 3:59 am Vrael Post #18



Quote from Fierce
Obese people have rights just like everyone else.
Yes, but when their rights begin to infringe on the rights of others, a problem arises nevertheless. The problem is not that obese people are fat, the problem is that their fatness becomes a problem for everyone else when we have to pay higher taxes because of it to provide for healthcare that they are recieving and we are not. "They" being the general fat population, and "We" being the non-fat population.

Quote from Fierce
Someone who doesn't understand what its like to actually be obese, shouldn't force anything upon anyone else.
So should someone who has never killed not force a jail sentence upon a killer? The two are analogous that in both cases one party is victimized and not the root of the problem, albeit that may not know what it's like to cause the problem, and the other half is victimizing. The magnitude of the crime is really irrelevant to the analogy in this particular case.

Quote from Vi3t-X
Regardless, it's not the food you consume that causes you to be fat.
One cannot become fat without consuming food. Over-consumption of food causes obesity, there is no other way for someone to become obese, excluding perhaps severe genetic disorders.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 3:59 am Centreri Post #19

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote from Kaias
Saying that imposing a tax for being obese is nice but it isn't that simple. What are you going to do, make mandatory semi-annual check-ups so that they can determine your fat tax? This wouldn't go over well at all if you tried to enact.
I'm saying what should be done, not how to get it done. I have plenty of ideas to improve life, but, alas, most of them wouldn't go through Congress.
Quote from Excalibur
I don't plan on living to 40.
Suit yourself.
Quote from MasterJohnny
So I, a thin person, have to pay a tax to buy unhealthy food? There is some kind of discrimination that i do not like here.

There are many problems that lead to obesity that I think a one size fits all solution tax is not going to fix obesity.
For example, I have heard that many school's lunch menu does not fit the dietary needs of the government food pyramid because the food budget has not increased. As a result, many kids are eating a somewhat unhealthy but free lunch.

There is also a income problem with some families. Some families may buy microwavable food or cup noodles because they lack the time to cook or the money to buy healthy food. (In this case, I think a tax will worsen the situation because while they are eating less junk food they probably will still not get dietary needs.)

In my case, I am a perfectly fine 160 pound 19 year old kid who eats lots of junk food and probably has a genetic predisposition to be thin.
and if a tax is implemented, I will probably make my own potato chips, other fried stuff, ect
The revenue raised with these taxes can be used to subsidize healthier food for the poor. Plus, there's so much money rolling around in America that it's ridiculous. The government spends $700 billion on the military-industrial complex, while education spending wasn't increased in 2008. There are many problems, and these are mostly solvable through the taxes alone, let alone the other crap floating around the budget. As for your predisposition to be thin, you're 19. That 'predisposition' will disappear with time.

Quote from Fierce
And you aren't? Think about the people who actually are obese. Obese people have rights just like everyone else. Someone who doesn't understand what its like to actually be obese, shouldn't force anything upon anyone else. It is the individual that must come to the conclusion themselves that they want to change. Forcing such laws would only cause problems.
I think I'm being perfectly altruistic. I'm offering a solution to one of America's problems despite it lowering my taste buds happiness. Please keep in mind that drugs are illegal (but its MY BODY!), soda is already specifically taxed more in certain states (WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM TO DRINK SUGARY WATER?!), etc. I'm not coming with this idea from thin air.

Quote from vi3t-x
The minute you say taxes, people will go "Hey, go fuck yourself."

And besides, eating the occasional burger would not kill you. Nor should you empty twice as much of your wallet for the same meal.
Fast food was designed to be prepared quickly. People just get addicted to it.

I don't eat extremely healthy (then again, Asians always eat healthy, don't we?). Regardless, it's not the food you consume that causes you to be fat. It's the way your body processes the food. If you refuse to exercise, the energy you receive from your food is stored as fat. Exercising consumes energy. When you do not have enough energy to meet the needs of your body during exercise, you consume fat. Want to hurt obesity? Make people exercise.

Not only that, but the simple thought of just fifteen minutes of aerobics could probably solve everything. Obesity works on an exponential factor. The fatter you are, chances are, the fatter you will come, should you not put a halt to it.

Oh right. I'm fat. I'm 160lbs at 6'.
No wait, DM saw my picture. I'm not fat. Muscle weighs more than fat. Yay.
You can eat the occasional burger. It will cost more, and some money will go towards the poor. As for exercise, yes, that's also a solution, but unless you have a solution to getting Americans to exercise enough to reverse the obesity trend, my idea works and yours doesn't.



None.

Nov 7 2009, 4:25 am Fierce Post #20



Quote from Vrael
Quote from Fierce
Obese people have rights just like everyone else.
Yes, but when their rights begin to infringe on the rights of others, a problem arises nevertheless. The problem is not that obese people are fat, the problem is that their fatness becomes a problem for everyone else when we have to pay higher taxes because of it to provide for healthcare that they are recieving and we are not. "They" being the general fat population, and "We" being the non-fat population.

Quote from Fierce
Someone who doesn't understand what its like to actually be obese, shouldn't force anything upon anyone else.
So should someone who has never killed not force a jail sentence upon a killer? The two are analogous that in both cases one party is victimized and not the root of the problem, albeit that may not know what it's like to cause the problem, and the other half is victimizing. The magnitude of the crime is really irrelevant to the analogy in this particular case.

Obesity is not the only reason for high taxes.
Obese people aren't harming you like a murderer puts harm to another person. I'm just saying that it is very selfish to force things upon others because you feel its the right thing. That is the actual infringement on another person's rights. They have the choice.

Quote from Centreri
Quote from Fierce
And you aren't? Think about the people who actually are obese. Obese people have rights just like everyone else. Someone who doesn't understand what its like to actually be obese, shouldn't force anything upon anyone else. It is the individual that must come to the conclusion themselves that they want to change. Forcing such laws would only cause problems.
I think I'm being perfectly altruistic. I'm offering a solution to one of America's problems despite it lowering my taste buds happiness. Please keep in mind that drugs are illegal (but its MY BODY!), soda is already specifically taxed more in certain states (WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM TO DRINK SUGARY WATER?!), etc. I'm not coming with this idea from thin air.
Why do you have to be concerned with what is best for people? If you don't want to do those things just don't do it. This solution you are offering does nothing but cause even more problems.



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