Null Worship
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Oct 26 2009, 12:58 am
By: Fierce
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Oct 26 2009, 12:58 am Fierce Post #1



( NOTE: This is not based upon anything I believe and does not mean that I question my beliefs. I'm an Atheist and I wrote this because many people question God's existence. Even many people who believe in God often catch themselves questioning the existence of God. )

Null Worship


Comments are well appreciated.



None.

Oct 26 2009, 2:14 pm BeDazed Post #2



Quote
( NOTE: This is not based upon anything I believe and does not mean that I question my beliefs. I'm an Atheist and I wrote this because many people question God's existence. Even many people who believe in God often catch themselves questioning the existence of God. )
Many philosophers of the past were Christian, and most of the known ones have caught themselves questioning God's existence.
Although if this came from a believer, then you'd better probably call him more of an agnostic then a believer.

Is this a lyric for a song?



None.

Oct 26 2009, 6:34 pm ClansAreForGays Post #3



I was hoping this would be a clever hymn to the great 'nothing' everyone worships. At least you gave me an idea for a piece.

Quote
If not for you, my existence wouldn't exist.
Oh come on now.




Oct 26 2009, 7:35 pm Fierce Post #4



Quote from BeDazed
Quote
( NOTE: This is not based upon anything I believe and does not mean that I question my beliefs. I'm an Atheist and I wrote this because many people question God's existence. Even many people who believe in God often catch themselves questioning the existence of God. )
Many philosophers of the past were Christian, and most of the known ones have caught themselves questioning God's existence.
Although if this came from a believer, then you'd better probably call him more of an agnostic then a believer.

Is this a lyric for a song?
Well it could go either way really. At some point in time, a believer can become a temporary Agnostic. Whether it be a few seconds or so.

Quote from ClansAreForGays
I was hoping this would be a clever hymn to the great 'nothing' everyone worships. At least you gave me an idea for a piece.

Quote
If not for you, my existence wouldn't exist.
Oh come on now.

Well that wouldn't really be an enjoyable piece for me. Being that I am an Atheist I already know my "beliefs" on things. I wanted to try something different and do things from an Agnostic/Theist perspective.

Yeah I was trying to think of something that would kind of flip things around on that line that was of the same meaning. It's cheesy but its okay for now.



None.

Oct 27 2009, 1:17 am BeDazed Post #5



Do you believe in the big bang? I am sure most do, even I do. But what do you think it suggests?
It suggests the Universe had a beginning. The problem with big bang is that it lacks a cause. It simply did because we exist.
But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?
'It was created just because' is the most illogical explanation there can be, because it isn't an explanation. It contradicts everything we, as modern day people believe in.
So, I chose to believe that the one who caused the creation of the Universe, 'God'. And it's an extremely personal choice.

And I have my views on creationism. I do not believe in Young Earth theory because of this reason.
Why would God, if truly immortal, and absolute be bothering to do with such a small scale of a time such as our 'day'? I doubt time would even matter if one lived forever.
A day didn't even exist before he created this Solar System. Did even time exist before the creation of the Universe?
I had to conclude that the days on Genesis just referred to the order in which God created.



None.

Oct 27 2009, 2:13 am Norm Post #6



Quote from BeDazed
Do you believe in the big bang? I am sure most do, even I do. But what do you think it suggests?
It suggests the Universe had a beginning. The problem with big bang is that it lacks a cause. It simply did because we exist.
But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?
'It was created just because' is the most illogical explanation there can be, because it isn't an explanation. It contradicts everything we, as modern day people believe in.
So, I chose to believe that the one who caused the creation of the Universe, 'God'. And it's an extremely personal choice.

And I have my views on creationism. I do not believe in Young Earth theory because of this reason.
Why would God, if truly immortal, and absolute be bothering to do with such a small scale of a time such as our 'day'? I doubt time would even matter if one lived forever.
A day didn't even exist before he created this Solar System. Did even time exist before the creation of the Universe?
I had to conclude that the days on Genesis just referred to the order in which God created.

The universe exists because It doesn't exist during at least one period in the timeline.



None.

Oct 27 2009, 10:28 am Fierce Post #7



Quote from BeDazed
Do you believe in the big bang? I am sure most do, even I do. But what do you think it suggests?
It suggests the Universe had a beginning. The problem with big bang is that it lacks a cause. It simply did because we exist.
But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?
'It was created just because' is the most illogical explanation there can be, because it isn't an explanation. It contradicts everything we, as modern day people believe in.
So, I chose to believe that the one who caused the creation of the Universe, 'God'. And it's an extremely personal choice.

And I have my views on creationism. I do not believe in Young Earth theory because of this reason.
Why would God, if truly immortal, and absolute be bothering to do with such a small scale of a time such as our 'day'? I doubt time would even matter if one lived forever.
A day didn't even exist before he created this Solar System. Did even time exist before the creation of the Universe?
I had to conclude that the days on Genesis just referred to the order in which God created.
Then who made God? If you say "But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?" I could turn it right back around and say "Where did God come from? Did God come out of no where? From what?"



None.

Oct 27 2009, 1:52 pm BeDazed Post #8



Quote
The universe exists because It doesn't exist during at least one period in the timeline.
Yes, we know that for a fact but doesn't make it the reason why. That logic is absurd because non-existence didn't exist some point in the timeline, and still doesn't exist.
So it doesn't exist because it didn't exist? Well you should stop existing.

Quote
Then who made God? If you say "But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?" I could turn it right back around and say "Where did God come from? Did God come out of no where? From what?"
If God was truly a God, by any definition, then God would have no beginning. God was always there.
But the fact stands that the Universe had a beginning. And beginnings have a cause. Or would you rather believe the Universe created itself? I'd rather believe there is a God which created the universe.
And while thats a personal belief, I'd also rather not believe an infinite loop of existance. Say, God of this universe, God of God's universe, God of God's God universe. God of God's God's Universe. God of God's God's God's Universe. And if that chain had an end, would that be the real God? God is God, just like infinity plus infinity is infinity.

If things can be created out of nothing? Well then, why are we living such a shitty life? There shouldn't be the need to starve, need to buy your 90 inch TV, or the need be poor. Everyone could be happy with a million girls of their creation. Or do you live in a different world than I do?
And in a manner of sense, atheists have to believe either two things. 1. Belief that the Universe was created out of nothing, and thus things can be created out of nothing. Of no cause.
2. The universe had an infinite chain of creation.
Or, one could be atheist just because others are. Never really thought about it! And don't even want to.

And for further comments on your 'lyric'. It is from the perspective of an atheist, as you are an atheist. Agnostic at best.
A theist would not say 'Do you want people to stop believing in you (God)'? As such, faith as defined in the bible is belief without the need to prove in a worldly manner.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 27 2009, 2:04 pm by BeDazed.



None.

Oct 27 2009, 7:47 pm Fierce Post #9



Quote from BeDazed
Quote
The universe exists because It doesn't exist during at least one period in the timeline.
Yes, we know that for a fact but doesn't make it the reason why. That logic is absurd because non-existence didn't exist some point in the timeline, and still doesn't exist.
So it doesn't exist because it didn't exist? Well you should stop existing.

Quote
Then who made God? If you say "But I refuse to believe that our Universe was just created out of what? From what? From where?" I could turn it right back around and say "Where did God come from? Did God come out of no where? From what?"
If God was truly a God, by any definition, then God would have no beginning. God was always there.
But the fact stands that the Universe had a beginning. And beginnings have a cause. Or would you rather believe the Universe created itself? I'd rather believe there is a God which created the universe.
And while thats a personal belief, I'd also rather not believe an infinite loop of existance. Say, God of this universe, God of God's universe, God of God's God universe. God of God's God's Universe. God of God's God's God's Universe. And if that chain had an end, would that be the real God? God is God, just like infinity plus infinity is infinity.


If things can be created out of nothing? Well then, why are we living such a shitty life? There shouldn't be the need to starve, need to buy your 90 inch TV, or the need be poor. Everyone could be happy with a million girls of their creation. Or do you live in a different world than I do?
And in a manner of sense, atheists have to believe either two things. 1. Belief that the Universe was created out of nothing, and thus things can be created out of nothing. Of no cause.
2. The universe had an infinite chain of creation.

Or, one could be atheist just because others are. Never really thought about it! And don't even want to.

And for further comments on your 'lyric'. It is from the perspective of an atheist, as you are an atheist. Agnostic at best.
A theist would not say 'Do you want people to stop believing in you (God)'? As such, faith as defined in the bible is belief without the need to prove in a worldly manner.
I'd rather believe that there is a scientific explanation than to believe in a magician that can pull a universe out of his hat.
Because God wants us to have a shitty life apparently.
You've also forgot that there is some Atheists out there that can realize that there isn't a known fact how the universe started and they still believe God doesn't exist.
Or, one could be a theist just because others are and/or follow their traditional family religion blindly without knowing wtf their religion is about. Oh yes, it's happened... a lot.
It is not a perspective from an Atheist. It's a mixture of both agnostic & theist perspectives. My mother was born as a Christian and has started questioning God's existence because of recent events (deaths and what not) She still considers herself a Christian. Like I said, It's temporary agnosticism.



None.

Oct 27 2009, 8:28 pm Jack Post #10

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from Fierce
( NOTE: This is not based upon anything I believe and does not mean that I question my beliefs. I'm an Atheist and I wrote this because many people question God's existence. Even many people who believe in God often catch themselves questioning the existence of God. )
If you don't believe in God, why are you writing a poem/lyrics as if you do, but doubt it now? Anyway.

Believing in nothing,
What? This bit doesn't make sense. Are you talking to nothing?
I thank you for making me who I am.
You made me not believe in you.
This, again, doesn't make sense. You don't believe in God yet you say that God made you not believe in God?
I am nothing because you are better than I.
A little hard to get, but good enough
If not for you, my existence wouldn't exist.
Good, but you just said you don't believe in Him.

Your followers are present; they're waiting.
Awaiting their new life, they give all.
I give nothing and yet I wait.
Who is right? Who is wrong?
This bit's ok. Obviously I AM RIGHT MWAHAHAHA

If it were you, what would you do?
Give all for nothing or give nothing for something?
I'm demanding an answer.

Not sure what you're getting at here.

What is will? Why is it free?

Before you were saying you were forced to not believe, now you have free will?
If you own everything, you can sell it for what you want.

And?

Your children; your image.
The good and bad; are you sure?
To make ourselves feel better, we break rules. We change things.
You should have known.

Theology-wise, anything bad in us is a corruption of what we were originally. Poetically, no comment

You're questioned so often yet you don't respond.
Do you want people to stop believing in you?


Depends on what you call a response. God isn't gonna start drawing 'I am here' in the sky if that's what you expected.

Comments are well appreciated.

Basically, you need to make more sense.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Oct 27 2009, 9:02 pm Fierce Post #11



Quote from name:zany_001
Quote from Fierce
( NOTE: This is not based upon anything I believe and does not mean that I question my beliefs. I'm an Atheist and I wrote this because many people question God's existence. Even many people who believe in God often catch themselves questioning the existence of God. )
If you don't believe in God, why are you writing a poem/lyrics as if you do, but doubt it now? Anyway.

Believing in nothing,
What? This bit doesn't make sense. Are you talking to nothing?
You could say that because people believe they talk to God.
I thank you for making me who I am.
You made me not believe in you.
This, again, doesn't make sense. You don't believe in God yet you say that God made you not believe in God?
This is where an Agnostic comes in to place. Agnostics aren't sure whether or not that there is a God or not. So basically, it's one of those things where you could be right or wrong and you're aware of this.
I am nothing because you are better than I.
A little hard to get, but good enough
Well to be quite honest this line is my opinion on religions and such. It basically means believers put themselves before God and I believe that this is wrong. Simple as that.
If not for you, my existence wouldn't exist.
Good, but you just said you don't believe in Him.
Agnosticism; it's in between about believing in a God and not believing in a God. This could also be taken from a believer's perspective because they know that they wouldn't exist without God.

Your followers are present; they're waiting.
Awaiting their new life, they give all.
I give nothing and yet I wait.
Who is right? Who is wrong?
This bit's ok. Obviously I AM RIGHT MWAHAHAHA
lol

If it were you, what would you do?
Give all for nothing or give nothing for something?
I'm demanding an answer.

Not sure what you're getting at here.
It's basically saying "should I devote my life to God, which may not exist, or should I not believe in God and possibly be wrong?"

What is will? Why is it free?

Before you were saying you were forced to not believe, now you have free will?
Where in this piece does it say "I am forced to not believe"..?
If you own everything, you can sell it for what you want.

And?
Not quite sure what you mean by "And?".. I assume its like a "where is the rest?" kind of thing. If that is the case, there isn't anymore. Basically it means that God could own us like slaves and pretend to give us free will.

Your children; your image.
The good and bad; are you sure?
To make ourselves feel better, we break rules. We change things.
You should have known.

Theology-wise, anything bad in us is a corruption of what we were originally. Poetically, no comment

You're questioned so often yet you don't respond.
Do you want people to stop believing in you?


Depends on what you call a response. God isn't gonna start drawing 'I am here' in the sky if that's what you expected.
Why can he/she not? Is he/she shy?

Comments are well appreciated.

Basically, you need to make more sense.

Also, as said in my NOTE in the first post, this isn't me questioning my belief. It makes it seem that you think that the piece is something I feel personally (from all the "you"s you had written in your post)



None.

Oct 28 2009, 1:07 am BeDazed Post #12



If Atheists were based on feelings more than anything, then Atheists are more a phony than a theist can be.
I'd also like to say, Science cannot prove everything. Whats beyond this universe is beyond science. Science must be based on observation of data, and anything beyond that but known to exist is beyond science.
If Atheists believed in absolute science, I don't know why they don't realize how puny our current scientific knowledge is. If any of them were logical at all, they would be agnostic, not atheist.

Plus
Quote
It is not a perspective from an Atheist. It's a mixture of both agnostic & theist perspectives. My mother was born as a Christian and has started questioning God's existence because of recent events (deaths and what not) She still considers herself a Christian. Like I said, It's temporary agnosticism.
You were unable to differentiate between A theist and Atheist. It made me lose all credibility of your ability to use the English language properly. End of discussion.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 28 2009, 1:19 am by BeDazed.



None.

Oct 28 2009, 6:35 am Howler Post #13



I can understand where you are coming from being an Atheist. I used to call myself that, but only because I was confused when it came to what God actually meant. People in church always act like God is a being that punishes people as if he were a human hahaha, very silly concept. Now I believe in a much more logical point of view. Instead of God being separate from each of us, waiting in Heaven or "God knows where" (right haha), I view life as if we are all part of God, and each one of us is connected to Earth, the same way our cells are connected to us, and ultimately everything is connected to itself, God. That is how god is omnipotent and omnipresent, because God is everything.

Believing in nothing can't make sense because you are living.



None.

Oct 28 2009, 6:43 am Jack Post #14

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from Howler
I can understand where you are coming from being an Atheist. I used to call myself that, but only because I was confused when it came to what God actually meant. People in church always act like God is a being that punishes people as if he were a human hahaha, very silly concept. Now I believe in a much more logical point of view. Instead of God being separate from each of us, waiting in Heaven or "God knows where" (right haha), I view life as if we are all part of God, and each one of us is connected to Earth, the same way our cells are connected to us, and ultimately everything is connected to itself, God. That is how god is omnipotent and omnipresent, because God is everything.

Believing in nothing can't make sense because you are living.
You got any evidence of any kind for that? A bible, or quran, or ANYTHING? Anyway I'll shut up now before this becomes a raging religious 'debate'. It's good people want to discuss religion but this topic isn't the place for it.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Oct 28 2009, 6:11 pm ClansAreForGays Post #15



Quote
It suggests the Universe had a beginning. The problem with big bang is that it lacks a cause. It simply did because we exist.
Maybe you should do your homework on string theory. It solves the problem of what made the big bag go 'bang' without resorting to superstition, or making claims that can't be proven or unproven.




Oct 28 2009, 6:26 pm Jack Post #16

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from ClansAreForGays
Quote
It suggests the Universe had a beginning. The problem with big bang is that it lacks a cause. It simply did because we exist.
Maybe you should do your homework on string theory. It solves the problem of what made the big bag go 'bang' without resorting to superstition, or making claims that can't be proven or unproven.
String theory says that the big bang comes from the branes, right? Still not that helpful, as where did the branes come from?



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Oct 29 2009, 3:45 am BeDazed Post #17



If Science wants to talk about the beginning, it cannot. Because there will always be a 'Where did' suffix infront of everything they find the cause of- due to its skeptic nature, unless you can prove scientifically that there is no more- if that is even possible.
String theory also relies fully on existing theories, and does not build on experiments. It is not yet fully formed into equations, and it is safe to say we do not know enough. Yet.



None.

Oct 29 2009, 5:24 am Howler Post #18



Quote from BeDazed
unless you can prove scientifically that there is no more- if that is even possible.


We've already established that nothing can be destroyed, only rearrange itself into a different form (liquid water turning to steam as an example) How is that not enough proof that there "is no more"?



None.

Oct 29 2009, 5:46 am Jack Post #19

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Tell me this. Why does the sun come up each day?



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Oct 30 2009, 6:40 am BeDazed Post #20



Quote
We've already established that nothing can be destroyed, only rearrange itself into a different form (liquid water turning to steam as an example) How is that not enough proof that there "is no more"?
Your logic fails to link the case together. Please specify.



None.

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