The government has no right to tell us who we can and can't marry, unless it hurts someone directly. Therefore, I propose a question. Should the government license marriage? I think not, and here is why:

There is supposed to be a separation between church and state.
I recently talked with my pastor and he expressed disgust at how he is essentially a civil servant at weddings. How is this a separation between church and state?

Health care is limited to spouses of the opposite gender in many states.
If in a homosexual couple one is sick or injured in some way, good luck getting the significant other's health insurance to pay. If marriage were only a symbolic thing, I wouldn't care one way or the other.

Marriage is a pointless tradition carried down from generations.
IMO, marriage doesn't matter. What matters is raising children in a stable environment, which is typically created through marriage, as a way to "force" it. There is no need to be married to raise a child well.

I know we have a diverse community here, so I'd like to hear your thoughts about my idea: Leave marriage up to the church. If the church refuses to marry/recognize homosexual couples, it is their right to do so. Remove the religious leader from becoming a civil servant, having to fill out paperwork. If a married (or unmarried) couple wants to be united in the eyes of the law for legal matters, they can march on down to the courthouse, and have a civil union.

I'd really like to hear thoughts from both sides. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can dislike this idea, except for perhaps lawyers.

But then you have to consider what happens when people refuse to pay child support, and other child oriented reasons.

I dislike the idea that i should leave marriage up to the church and/or government. I am an atheist and wouldn't want to get married in a church or other religious affiliation.

Being married is a legal status which entitles you to certain benefits and privileges in healthcare, taxation, burial, and other things. If we were to drop legal "marriage," it would probably need to be replaced with an equivalent under a different name, which I find somewhat pointless.

For example, people will continue to live as a married couple in one house. In some families, one parent earns a salary while the other stays home and raises the children. In terms of taxes, it is much more sensible to allow the couple to file jointly.

Why? How is it any different from now?
Then you shouldn't want to get married ever.
What I propose is a separation of the current form of marriage, and split it into two--a religious aspect and legal aspect. Currently you can't have one without the other, which is why many are against gay marriage.

It sounds like you think marriage is a religious aspect. Why does marriage have to be religious? Marriage is just the union of two people. It does not need religious affiliation. (side note: I am starting to think that "western" culture ties marriage with religious values which is why people are against gay marriage.)

Why? How is it any different from now?

Basically DTBK said a more generalization of what I intended. Because there are many legal aspects connected with marriage.

I think where the fight is,
One the bible says that you can't have gays be married: which i think we shouldn't be able to tell who can get married or who can't in the country. We do have our freedoms.

Two: Marriage was also created by religion, and it does not mean the union of two people coming together, it means a man and woman coming together people have just changed the definition of it over time.: This i kinda agree with its kinda degrading to people who do believe in religion that people can just change something that they created and say thats what it ment all along.

Solution:Let any body to be together, change the name of gay marriages to something that they create so it doesn't affend some people. Its called compromise America was founded on the great compromise.

Will we ever agree.... NO haha so i just go with the flow.

We kinda did this with christmas because the world was like them christians are having fun every december, instead of stealing ideas and just changing the core of the holiday. They pretty much made two holidays the santa clause christmas and the jesus christmas. This is what we are going to have to do with Marriage to shut people up!

Excatly my point. The problem lies in making marriage religious. If we make it purely religious by taking out the legal aspect, and replace the legal aspect with a civil union, people can have both, or just one if they want.

but the thing is Marriage was created by religion, So i think we need to make a system where it does not affend the religions... but also don't affend people who don't believe in religion by not taking relgion out of mariage, by just adding somthing for people who want to be together but don't believe in religion. Just like i said santa/christ we did it for christmas why can't we do it for marriage ><!

I do not think marriage is created by religious. It is just the union of two people but religious has created all these ridiculous rules for marriage. In Buddhism, there are no "rules" for marriage while many western religions place marriage as something divine. The problem is that the people cannot separate church and state in their mind so they use religious arguments to deny people of same sex marriage.

No masterjohny at the begin of time when religion "God" created man the bible is like one of the oldest/historcal things so if you believe in God or not it still has facts in it.. "God" told adam and eve that Women and Man were to create a union This is marriage... Believe it or not, Not believeing in a God is actually a fairly new concept. Back in the day everyone believe in some kind of God.

Ok don't be ignorant... Religion made Marriage.
not saying we shouldn't make a universal Marriage but we need it seperate it, so the relgiouse people stop fighting with other people saying stuff like God hates gay... Which is totally stupid because God hates not one according to the bible !

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 10 2009, 8:47 pm by Ashamed.

Don't you need some form of religious person to make the marriage official? (I could easily be wrong here)

Also, who walks down the alter?

Yes. Whoever wants to.

Jesus loves me but he can't stand you.

These are just western religious concepts. Concepts of eastern religion predate the bible. Not believing in God is not a new concept because Buddhism has existed just as long as western religion. How can you say religion made marriage when I provided an old age religion that does not have a position on marriage? But this has become somewhat off topic as it is not philosophical.


This is also a western culture concept of marriage. In an Indian marriage the groom "walks" but depending on religion there may or may not be a religious person. In Buddhism, it is unlikely to have a sort of religious person but sometimes there are wedding vows.

How would Atheists wed? And if a gay person belonged to a religion that was against gay marriage...what would happen then?

You're thinking of Christian Marriages. The union of two people in a bonding or contract or whatever is evident with or without religion.

If you look into a number of cultures in Asia, marriage is more or less ceremonial and is part of local customs. Tradition and Culture isn't exactly Religion.

Actually. Before the widespread communication of cultures (when people lived in tiny villages), how do you suppose religion would even occur? It'd be a large mix of 'religions'. So Religion is an evolved form of Culture?

But when the world was young they believe in some kind of religion... Not believing in something IS fairly new... And then yes christains and some other religions relized that they bonded better in pairs and either God came and told them what they were suppose to do with that or they were high on LSD... But thats when the union of people became marriage because of religions that said God "supreme being" told them they had to stay together under them.... So it went from Union-marriage (religion) now we are on the third step where people still want to be together but don't want to say God is the one who says they need to be together.. and want their choice of who they were with... But trust me my friend the people who "mass produce marriage/ relized Male and Female belong together in pairs... and decided to do somthing about it and create the ceramony of marriage was religion...

The main reason why people are given civil benefits for marriage is because they are going to most likely have children, and therefore contribute to the population of the state, and they need the extra help to raise children, something a gay couple would not do, hence marriage being withheld from them.

Of course, this is somewhat flawed in today's society, since so many couples nowadays are selfish and choose not to have children, which was an choice that used to happen almost without question. As much as I disapprove of homosexuality, I think that it is a bit screwy that it is not allowed altogether, however, if it were to be allowed, churches would be obligated to marry gay couples in their churches, something that goes against that religion. If they would only get a civil marriage, only binding them by law, then I would say it's fine, however, many would not, and that's where the problem arrives.

I don't understand what the all the objection is about when it comes to "gay rights" Jsut because you would rather be with the same sex does not mean that you lose your consitutional rights.

This is another example of irrational bible teachings that have yet again worked our way into politics.

There is no legit reason why 2 people no matter what sex or sexuality, shouldnt be able to get a marriage license. if a man and a woamn can do it, its not fair for a woman and a woamn or a man and a man.

And personally i dont understand why people want to get married so bad anyways, even the gay community. i would be perfectly content just being with someone. Marrige creates too much trouble in my opinoin. theres things like divorce, and even this topic of discussion is a real issue in our society